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Evolution has never been observed

otokage007

Well-Known Member
BTW what is a devate?

A discussion. Maybe it is "deBate"? I don't know, I'm not english.

Anyway, you really didn't understand the word? Or was just some intent of humiliation towards not-english people, or ignorant english people who don't write properly? That's quite sad! :run:
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
A discussion. Maybe it is "deBate"? I don't know, I'm not english.

Anyway, you really didn't understand the word? Or was just some intent of humiliation towards not-english people, or ignorant english people who don't write properly? That's quite sad! :run:

Hey. I am not english either and worse, I am a poor Indian. I guessed that you meant 'debate' but wanted to confirm it.

Now, I wish that you will look back into your own answers.
 
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Acim

Revelation all the time
Exactly what type of "observation" are you expecting for evolution? We have already observed the development of new species. Are you saying we need to witness the development of a whole new family or class or kingdom before you will accept the Theory of Evolution?

No. And neither am I denying that 'we have already observed he development of new species.' But I'm also not fully on board with that either. Possible, to be in between, I think. Especially for me in this thread. I'm working through the material, thinking critically, making up my own mind. You have claim it has been observed and I observe that works for you. If it is in material I am reading on this thread, and you pretty much know that, then trust I'll get to it. If not in that material or any material in this thread, or in the other thread (with all the resources), then do let me know that ASAP, and I'll likely be glad to look at material / source you would have me look at to verify the claim. Can't say, that will put me fully on board. Sorry.

What about all of the evidence we can observe about those organisms which preceeded us? While far from a complete picture, there is ample evidence to indicate a continuous progression from simple bacteria up through eukaryotes, multicellular animals, vertibrates, mammals, and primates leading eventually to humans.

Again, I'm not perhaps as familiar with evidence as you are, so let me get to it when I get to it. I may have a few critical issues before I get there, ones that may question very foundation of TOE, but I'm sure you all can handle it.

I will note that there may be, I think likely is, but not sure, philosophical difference I have with evolutionists. Partly has to do with observation / objectivity, but I can reserve that for another debate than TOE. And sure enough there are enough other threads where that is going on. With TOE, my larger disagreement, philosophically, will be (has so far been) with how much I see TOE not being all that different from how I understand Creationism. I fully realize there is old school version of Creationism and that is where larger debate is perceived. But I think the old school version is in need of update that I would say validates previous understanding while making it plausible to consider within framework of TOE. This may not come up rigorously in this thread, even while I've directly referenced it twice now. Part of this philosophical disagreement, for me, is that TOE really doesn't seem to be explaining much to me. So far it really does seem akin to "change happens" as if that was somehow being denied 100's of years ago. So, this may be the obvious split I have with old school Creationist, but I also can't believe TOE would be that overly simplified. And yet, so far it comes off that way to me. That philosophy of TOE is simple, but taxonomy (jargon) is what makes TOE the 16 billion pages of info that we have on the topic. If I am over simplifying the 'whole case for TOE,' then again, just bear with me, and trust I'll get to the meat in good time, and revise my words that I'm spewing out now.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
You post up a thread that has been proven to be a false statement.

You have been shown the error of your ways countless times.

It hasn't yet been proven to me. I have observed claims that say otherwise. If claims equal proof, then you are correct. My bad.

My take is that I've seen at least three posts in this thread where evolutionist has said something to effect of, "while we can't directly see evolution, we can and do infer it." That is not direct quote, but if you review this thread, you'll see where I've noted this. So really, at this time, here on page umpteen something, I feel like straw man is closer to down for the count than clearly standing up.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
"Devate" being in middle of post claiming, strongly, that Acim is a poor communicator.

I guess it takes one to know one.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
A discussion. Maybe it is "deBate"? I don't know, I'm not english.

Anyway, you really didn't understand the word? Or was just some intent of humiliation towards not-english people, or ignorant english people who don't write properly? That's quite sad! :run:

Hey. I am not english either and worse, I am a poor Indian. I guessed that you meant 'debate' but wanted to confirm it.

Now, I wish that you will look back into your own answers.


When my daughter was 17 year old, that is just three years back, she labeled a folder in her computer 'Vedio'. Even now, we all tease her so hard (and so lovingly) that she starts tearing her hair.:)
 

otokage007

Well-Known Member
"Devate" being in middle of post claiming, strongly, that Acim is a poor communicator.

I guess it takes one to know one.

Lol you were expecting such a thing to counter-atack. But anyway, I'm a better communicator than you since even making spelling mistakes I have been understood by a lot more people than you.
 

camanintx

Well-Known Member
With TOE, my larger disagreement, philosophically, will be (has so far been) with how much I see TOE not being all that different from how I understand Creationism.
Exactly how do you understand Creationism? Are you talking about the common understanding that God separately created each 'kind' or the more esoteric version where God created life in general and then guided evolution to get where we are today?
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Again, I'm not perhaps as familiar with evidence as you are, so let me get to it when I get to it. I may have a few critical issues before I get there, ones that may question very foundation of TOE, but I'm sure you all can handle it.

How can you expect to question the foundation of evolution if you aren't even familiar with the evidence?
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
Exactly how do you understand Creationism? Are you talking about the common understanding that God separately created each 'kind' or the more esoteric version where God created life in general and then guided evolution to get where we are today?

Not something I care to discuss on this thread. At least not now. If you desire to have me share this in PM or to start another thread, we could do that.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
I am familiar with the evidence. Your straw man question fascinates me.
It's not a strawman. Evidence was mentioned and you claimed to not be familiar with it - that shows a lack of education that does not befit someone who claims they can question the validity of an entire field of scientific inquiry.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
It's not a strawman. Evidence was mentioned and you claimed to not be familiar with it

Is not what I claimed.

Kinda went through this with Jose Fly. Some of y'all got comprehension issues. What I said: "I'm not perhaps as familiar with evidence as you are."

Not familiar with it
is not same as, and could be vastly different than
Not as familiar with it as (another)

I'm not as familiar (perhaps) with the US constitution as a constitutional lawyer probably is. From this, you would then interpret me to be saying, "I am not at all familiar with the US constitution?"

And wouldn't call that straw man?
 

camanintx

Well-Known Member
Is not what I claimed.

Kinda went through this with Jose Fly. Some of y'all got comprehension issues. What I said: "I'm not perhaps as familiar with evidence as you are."
Do you think you're familiar enough with it to refute the work of those who have spent their lives studying it?
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Is not what I claimed.

Kinda went through this with Jose Fly. Some of y'all got comprehension issues. What I said: "I'm not perhaps as familiar with evidence as you are."

Not familiar with it
is not same as, and could be vastly different than
Not as familiar with it as (another)

I'm not as familiar (perhaps) with the US constitution as a constitutional lawyer probably is. From this, you would then interpret me to be saying, "I am not at all familiar with the US constitution?"

And wouldn't call that straw man?
Perhaps you should reflect back on what it was you said that in response to, then:

"What about all of the evidence we can observe about those organisms which preceeded us? While far from a complete picture, there is ample evidence to indicate a continuous progression from simple bacteria up through eukaryotes, multicellular animals, vertibrates, mammals, and primates leading eventually to humans."

You were responding to some extremely basic facts that serve as evidence of evolution, and your only response is "I am not as familiar with it as you are". Do I need to paint a picture? To use your analogy, it'd be like me saying "the US constitution states X". If your response to a simple fact about the constitution is "Well, I'm just not as familiar with it as you are" it implies a great deal of ignorance about the US constitution.

So, you are not familiar with even basic facts that support evolution, and yet you claim to be able to ask questions that shake it's foundations. How can you do that, again?
 
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atanu

Member
Premium Member
While far from a complete picture, there is ample evidence to indicate a continuous progression from simple bacteria up through eukaryotes, multicellular animals, vertibrates, mammals, and primates leading eventually to humans."

Those lower forms still exist. But apparently, the higher forms did not exist before about 65 mybp.

The problem -- to me--- is that the forms are often equated with life and TOE is extended to the realm of origin of life itself.
 

David M

Well-Known Member
How can we say, "it is not simply a matter of change over time," while also saying, "a central idea of evolution is that forms have changed over time?"

Because we are not trying to play semantic tricks to try and deny the validity of physical evidence and avoid addressing the real issues.

Merely by saying that something is "a central idea" it means that here are other ideas that may or may not be central.

In the same manner the reason that genetic inheritance is not circular is that inheritance, as your dictionary shows, have more than one definition. Using both together specifies exactly which form of inheritance is being talked about.
 
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