Evolution is not random -here's why

[Twilight Hue]

Because natural selection cannot 'create' a mutation.

True that's probably because you're looking at one single organism. You'll find that there are certain organisms with mutations that will adapt better to an environment given them an advantage in that environment to where it gets to the point where that becomes the dominant trait through subsequent generations.

 

[Cooky]

Show us the sequence data.

I would, but I don't know what a sequence data is. Also, who's the "us" that you're speaking for?

 

[Cooky]

And we should care that YOU find this "extremely bazaar [sic] and highly unlikely. So unlikely, that it is impossible"?

Let us see your math and your research, such that you can make so confident a proclamation. And no - googling a few pictures and declaring it all impossible is NOT research.

LOL, it seems like you do care, because you posted three times in a row.

 

[dfnj]

I believe it's called "convergent evolution". I find it extremely bazaar and highly unlikely. So unlikely, that it is impossible. It should be clear that mutations are not random, but are based on environmental needs. Somehow.

It is unlikely you will ever win the lottery. But people DO win the lottery. You would win the lottery too if you bought enough lottery tickets. What you are failing to understand about evolution is just how long one million years can be!

 

[Woberts]

It is unlikely you will ever win the lottery. But people DO win the lottery. You would win the lottery too if you bought enough lottery tickets. What you are failing to understand about evolution is just how long one million years can be!

And how many lottery tickets are in circulation.

 

[Cooky]

@tas8831, do you not find convergence in biology to be interesting? But with multiple animals evolving 'similar' traits, we now see multiple similar mutations where a small flap becomes a full blown patagium... If you don't see the amazingness of this, then that can only be because your senses have been dulled.

As far as my knowledge, it doesn't really matter in contrast to what I find interesting, because more knowledge seems to dull the imagination. For instance, a modern actor playing a part from a 1960's film might refuse to watch that film and instead go straight back to the original book that the movie was founded on. That's to prevent muddying up the true intent of the character.

...In the same way, a fresh mind on a topic might be worth a little something at least.

 

[Cooky]

It is unlikely you will ever win the lottery. But people DO win the lottery. You would win the lottery too if you bought enough lottery tickets. What you are failing to understand about evolution is just how long one million years can be!

But the same mutation! Over and over again until a tiny flap becomes huge. I know, natural selection. But golly-this "convergence" is a really big deal!

I mean, mutations are kind of rare to begin with. But with flying squirrels, we have the same mutation at least over a thousand times!

...Little by little, decade after decade. Things like patagiums don't occur overnight. It's fascinating!

 

[Cooky]

...There's just some things weird about life. Like the fact that we beat all odds. All the time.

Multiple species growing eyes, legs wings. And now thousands of similar mutations within the same species. It's absolutely crazy.

 

[dfnj]

And how many lottery tickets are in circulation.

There are 1000 million years in a billion years. There are approximate 2000 bubbles per square foot in primordial soup. There are 196 million square miles of land on Earth. Say 1/3 is capability of spawning life. Say 1/10 of that is ponds having bubbles capable of spawning life. That's 6 million square miles of ponds. There are 5280 feet in a mile so that's 31680 square feet times 2000 bubbles so that's 6 million bubbles. Say a bubble lasts for 5 days. Then over the 300 million years that's 42,000 million bubbles or 42 billion bubbles.

So to answer your question, that's about 42 billion lottery tickets. One of them hit and life was born.

My math may be off. But the number of lottery tickets is mind bending. The point is even if an event is extremely unlikely, given enough attempts, over time every improbably event will eventually happen.

The Primordial Soup Theory suggest that 3.8 billion to 3.55 billion years ago life began in a pond or ocean as a result of the combination of chemicals from the atmosphere and some form of energy to make amino acids, the building blocks of proteins, which would then evolve into the first species on Earth.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

But the same mutation!

But it isn't "the same mutation". It's a similar feature.

Over and over again until a tiny flap becomes huge. I know, natural selection. But golly-this "convergence" is a really big deal!

It really isn't. If flight is advantageous in enough environments and there are enough populations in those environments, it stands to reason that similar flight-like abilities would develop independently. What makes you think that his is improbable? And what makes you think the exact pathway to flight for each species was identical or even remotely similar?

I mean, mutations are kind of rare to begin with.

No, they're not. Every living things has hundreds of unique mutations. Beneficial or detrimental mutations are rare, but their rarity isn't an issue when discussing evolution taking millions of generations over a period of hundreds of millions of years.

But with flying squirrels, we have the same mutation at least over a thousand times!

This sentence doesn't really make sense.

...Little by little, decade after decade. Things like patagiums don't occur overnight. It's fascinating!

It is, but I'm not sure it means what you think it means.

 

[gnostic]

...Because it's impossible that 6 or 7 different species developed "flight" independently and separate from one another.

Is it really flying, or is it what Buzz Lightyear called “falling with style”?

 

[dfnj]

But the same mutation! Over and over again until a tiny flap becomes huge. I know, natural selection. But golly-this "convergence" is a really big deal!

I mean, mutations are kind of rare to begin with. But with flying squirrels, we have the same mutation at least over a thousand times!

...Little by little, decade after decade. Things like patagiums don't occur overnight. It's fascinating!

There are many similarities between a bluegill and a bass. But it doesn't take a genius to realize the bucket mouth on a large mouth bass is an evolutionary advantage.

When you compare us to fish, we all have 2 eyes, 2 nostrils, a mouth, and a butt hole. Not much has changed other than human brains are capable of thinking about it.

 

[dfnj]

There are many similarities between a bluegill and a bass. But it doesn't take a genius to realize the bucket mouth on a large mouth bass is an evolutionary advantage.

When you compare us to fish, we all have 2 eyes, 2 nostrils, a mouth, and a butt hole. Not much has changed other than human brains are capable of thinking about it.

Just look a rock bass. It's a bluegills eggs fertilizing with a bass's eggs.

 

[Thief]

sorry to get here soooooo late....

has anyone said so....
the chemistry of the earth churns
wind, water, quakes and lightning.....etc, etc, etc

and life must change form as the changes take hold

more heat.....less fur
more bacteria....more resistance in the higher forms

if you are the mutant that survives the plague......good for you
if you are the clever one that learned to make a fire.....good for you

if you were one of the many that didn't know how to swim forty days and nights......

oooops

 

[ImmortalFlame]

...There's just some things weird about life. Like the fact that we beat all odds. All the time.

But we don't. Billions upon billions of species have gone extinct through the existence of life on this planet. What you're saying here is akin to buying 10 billion lottery tickets, winning on two of those tickets, and proclaiming how fortunate you are despite the remaining 9.99 billion losing lottery tickets you bought.

Multiple species growing eyes, legs wings. And now thousands of similar mutations within the same species. It's absolutely crazy.

What's crazy about it?

 

[dfnj]

...Because it's impossible that 6 or 7 different species developed "flight" independently and separate from one another.

What is impossible might be your inability to imagine the length of time it takes for evolution to occur.

 

[dfnj]

sorry to get here soooooo late....
has anyone said so....
the chemistry of the earth churns
wind, water, quakes and lightning.....etc, etc, etc
and life must change form as the changes take hold
more heat.....less fur
more bacteria....more resistance in the higher forms
if you are the mutant that survives the plague......good for you
if you are the clever one that learn to make a fire.....good for you
if you were one of the many that didn't know how to swim forty days and nights......
oooops

Those are all good points. This is why people think of the Earth metaphorically as a woman....what?

 

[Thief]

What is impossible might be your inability to imagine the length of time it takes for evolution to occur.

that would be ....one....generation

 

[dfnj]

It should always be remembered that fossilisation is a rare process, the re-exposure at the surface of rocks containing fossils is also rare and the actual finding of such re-exposed fossils takes a lot of luck. So the combined probability of us finding fossils of all these creatures, showing all the evolutionary stages, is very low indeed. We work with a jigsaw with many of the pieces missing, in other words with many questions yet to be answered. But even so, the broad picture is clear.

This is a really good point.

If you study animals by complexity, that is, the total number of living cells, there is a national order to functional capability. It's really hard to deny evolution in the face of this evidence by how closely similar the animals are as they increase in cellular complexity. The only conclusion one can come to is evolution is science fact and not just a simple theory or conjecture. The evidence is clearly overwhelming in favor of evolution.

 

[dfnj]

So Landon, look closely at the pics you posted. One thing that should stand out to you is how different taxa achieve flight via very diverse means. With the flying squirrel it's a flap of skin between limbs. But with birds it's via hollow bones, feathers, and modified forelimbs. Then with insects its via outgrowths of the exoskeleton.

If all those traits were pre-planned and executed by non-random mutations, why did it occur via such diverse means? It would seem to me that such diversity supports all of it originating via random mutations working on pre-existing anatomies.

Not only that, but it sucks saber tooth tigers no longer exist. I would have loved to have seen an alive one!