Evolution, maybe someone can explain?

[Valjean]

The very fact that no species on earth acted human until 40,000 years ago suggests that a new species arose 40,000 years ago. The fact that our memory and history go back only to 2000 BC suggests that a new species arose ~2000 BC.

What does "act human" mean? It could be anything.
What 40,000 y/o change do you claim generated a new species?
Our history extends way beyond our recorded history

 

[gnostic]

I still wonder what acted human means and why doing so suggest speciation or why the suggestion of speciation is treated as if actual speciation took place. Apparently, acting human is writing, but it isn't inventing airplanes, cars or atomic power. It isn't using telephones or going into space either, apparently.

Fortunately, I don't base my conclusions on the arbitrary, uninformed individuals that think they can scan the brains of long-dead humans with no brains available to scan. It must be some sort of Christmas miracle to get these scans of ancient (and I hesitate to use the term, but it applies in this case) Homo sapiens for comparison to the brains of contemporary Homo sapiens.

I wonder if they were upside down landing Homo sapiens in the past?

What @cladking clearly don't understand is that the evolutionary biology don't just apply to only humans.

The evolutionary science applied to all other living organisms, from microorganisms to multicellular organisms (eg fungi, plants, & animals).

Everything that cladking have claimed here and other threads, don't apply to non-human living organisms, and the whole nonsense about ancient language and ancient science, that have nothing to do with evolution and speciation, and really don't have to do with biology.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

As expected, the video didn’t answer my question………….the video claims that tikaalik was expected to be found in the late Devonian, but he doesn’t explains why specially given that we now know that land tetrapods evolved before that age (during the mid denovian)

He explains exactly that in the first 50 seconds. Did you even watch it?

The discovery of tetrapod fossils in the mid Devonian is a fairly recent discovery……………my bet is that the video predates that discovery, therefore the video is not useful

And yet, they found the fossil exactly where they expected to find it.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In order to become a member of the fish paraphyletic group all you need is:

1 descend from the universal common ancestor (which all animals in the planet do)

2 “fish traits” which are subjective and are determined by non-objective opinion

Point 2 is not part of the definition of "paraphyletic". You made that up.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

so what?

So.... species don't jump lineages.

The hypothetical descendants of humans with “fish– like” traits would:

1 share a common ancestor with other fishes like sharks tuna or eels

2 some but not all the descendant *linages* would be fishes

The lineage that humans find themselves on, are not fiches. So the descendants thereof won't be fishes either.

Therefore this hypothetical fish would fit in the defection of “the paraphyletic group fish”

No, that's not how that works and it's been pointed out ad nauseum by now.

 

[cladking]

What does "act human" mean? It could be anything.
What 40,000 y/o change do you claim generated a new species?

We began wearing jewelry, creating art, and even making the same "symbols" in caves all over the world.

Our history extends way beyond our recorded history

Everything on earth can trace its "history" back billions of years". However our recorded history doesn't even extend all the way back to when writing was invented!!! Imagine a species inventing writing and a medium to record it and having nothing to say!

They wrote it all down all right but then later people after 2000 BC spent centuries trying to decipher it. Since it couldn't be translated it was all lost or confused into the many languages of homo omnisciencis. Today it's all gone in it's entirety except scraps of what we call "Sumerian" and a few hundred words repeated over and over and over in piles of rubble euphemistically called "pyramids" by those who are blind to even the fact that the same words repeat again and again and again. These blindmen are modern seers who believe the words carved deep in the stone are just gobbledty gook and the exact same errors are repeated in them many times!

How ironic that ancient scientists were called "foremost of sight", "chief of prophets", "overseers of prophets", "chief of seers" and various sundry other terms because they could see so much and so far. But experiment proves our species can only see what we believe. Even before we get all the way up on the shoulders of giants we each believe we can see just about everything because we are seeing what we believe. Then when we get a good perch we are seeing what the giant believes.

Reality will always be distinct from our models and beliefs yet some people persist in believing that science provides an accurate reflection by definition. Science provides an accurate reflection of its assumptions in light of experiment which is what Kuhn called a "paradigm". We can see only our own individual understanding of the prevailing paradigm because this is the nature of the operating system we acquired at the "tower of babel".

"Homo sapiens" saw all of the reality they understood in terms that were consistent with the the brain/ body and the simple language which was used not for "thought" but for communication with others. They became very wise because their knowledge led straight to understanding themselves and their place in the cosmos. They experienced their consciousness not thought.

 

[cladking]

Our history extends way beyond our recorded history

Our history begins with the "symbols" in caves. More accurately the history of "homo sapiens" begins. Before the first human being born of a mutation 40,000 years ago there was a species that looked like us but had only simple language so complex knowledge couldn't be passed down through the generations. Without this there was no means to climb onto the shoulders of giants. When the mutation occurred it spread rapidly across the face of the planet. This mutation was probably a closer connection between the wernickes speech center and higher brain functions.

When the language became too complex the official language was changed to a new type of language like our language which was formatted differently. Each individual acquires a brocas area to learn this new language and thereby acquires the "ability" to think.

We are as different to homo sapiens as we are to baboons who were even more different to the proto-humans who went extinct 40,000 years ago.

 

[YoursTrue]

What would distinguish a non-bug? Why could that not be achieved by accumulated change?

I don't know if you're in the clade of being a bug -- maybe yes, maybe not.

 

[YoursTrue]

Our history begins with the "symbols" in caves. More accurately the history of "homo sapiens" begins. Before the first human being born of a mutation 40,000 years ago there was a species that looked like us but had only simple language so complex knowledge couldn't be passed down through the generations. Without this there was no means to climb onto the shoulders of giants. When the mutation occurred it spread rapidly across the face of the planet. This mutation was probably a closer connection between the wernickes speech center and higher brain functions.

When the language became too complex the official language was changed to a new type of language like our language which was formatted differently. Each individual acquires a brocas area to learn this new language and thereby acquires the "ability" to think.

We are as different to homo sapiens as we are to baboons who were even more different to the proto-humans who went extinct 40,000 years ago.

A little off the subject perhaps but I attribute life to a Creator, a higher power than physics and nature. That is my terminology right now. Not that I understand everything, that's for sure.... But I enjoy reading (listening? hearing? maybe not comprehending all but anyway...) many of your posts.Take care as life wears on. Again, what poor creatures we are with such limited vocabulary, language, and knowledge. Yet -- some think they know it all...

 

[shunyadragon]

A little off the subject perhaps but I attribute life to a Creator, a higher power than physics and nature.

I have o problem with this, but the 'Source' some call God(S) would not Create a physical existence i contradiction with the objective verifiable evidence that results in the knowledge of science.

That is my terminology right now. Not that I understand everything, that's for sure.... But I enjoy reading (listening? hearing? maybe not comprehending all but anyway...) many of your posts.Take care as life wears on. Again, what poor creatures we are with such limited vocabulary, language, and knowledge. Yet -- some think they know it all...

Apparently you claim to know more than 95%+ of all the scientists and all the major academic institutions of the world. They do not claim to "know it all" as you do. and acknowledge that the knowledge of science changes with new discoveries and research,

 

[shunyadragon]

I don't know if you're in the clade of being a bug -- maybe yes, maybe not.

Actually no, intentional ignorance again, humans are not in the clade of bugs(?).

 

[YoursTrue]

I have o problem with this, but the 'Source' some call God(S) would not Create a physical existence i contradiction with the objective verifiable evidence that results in the knowledge of science.

Actually no, intentional ignorance again, humans are not in the clade of bugs(?).

Just wondering...but -- since you're so knowledgeable, doesn't everything alive in the form of animals come from a common ancestor? What do you think? Meantime, no scientist can explain gravity with any verifiication except to describe some of the effects of that force. And so far science cannot duplicate life in the form of the first cells then extending beyond to morph to other forms. Then excusing it by saying abiogenesis anyway isn't concerning evolution. Nonsense. Yes, bugs remain bugs, gorillas remain gorillas. And writing didn't start that long ago. Go prove otherwise. Oh, but you know, there's no "proof" in science, so go with that anyway. science, so go with that anyway.

 

[YoursTrue]

I still wonder what acted human means and why doing so suggest speciation or why the suggestion of speciation is treated as if actual speciation took place. Apparently, acting human is writing, but it isn't inventing airplanes, cars or atomic power. It isn't using telephones or going into space either, apparently.

Fortunately, I don't base my conclusions on the arbitrary, uninformed individuals that think they can scan the brains of long-dead humans with no brains available to scan. It must be some sort of Christmas miracle to get these scans of ancient (and I hesitate to use the term, but it applies in this case) Homo sapiens for comparison to the brains of contemporary Homo sapiens.

I wonder if they were upside down landing Homo sapiens in the past?

hopefully you can keep wondering...

 

[YoursTrue]

Just wondering...but -- since you're so knowledgeable, doesn't everything alive in the form of animals come from a common ancestor? What do you think? Meantime, no scientist can explain gravity with any verifiication except to describe some of the effects of that force. And so far science cannot duplicate life in the form of the first cells then extending beyond to morph to other forms. Then excusing it by saying abiogenesis anyway isn't concerning evolution. Nonsense. Yes, bugs remain bugs, gorillas remain gorillas. And writing didn't start that long ago. Go prove otherwise. Oh, but you know, there's no "proof" in science, so go with that anyway. science, so go with that anyway.

Oh, I amend that -- bugs may not be considered animals by scientists like yourself. But -- according to science, it all boils down to a Common Ancestor somewhere, somehow, doesn't it? (more for @shunyadragon, please.) Ah, shunydragon,later maybe I'll tell you a joke a doctor told me a while ago...maybe you'll like it...who knows? I guess only you can tell...

 

[Pogo]

I don't know if you're in the clade of being a bug -- maybe yes, maybe not.

Ooh, you have learned another word to misuse. How many years till you actually understand what clade means?

 

[YoursTrue]

Ooh, you have learned another word to misuse. How many years till you actually understand what clade means?

oh -- you're in a different clade. I guess...

 

[cladking]

A little off the subject perhaps but I attribute life to a Creator, a higher power than physics and nature. That is my terminology right now. Not that I understand everything, that's for sure.... But I enjoy reading (listening? hearing? maybe not comprehending all but anyway...) many of your posts.Take care as life wears on. Again, what poor creatures we are with such limited vocabulary, language, and knowledge. Yet -- some think they know it all...

You know you'd think as science progresses and we learn ever more about the complexity of reality and the impossibility of how it unfolds that people would be more willing to accept the possibility of Divine creation. Instead we just keep getting ever bigger for our britches.

Now I'm proposing because of the nature of consciousness and free will that reality is infinitely more complex than the infinite complexity we knew it already was and believers in science don't even blink an eye. They can't even imagine living in a reality where all the answers aren't already known.
And then they don't see that if we were a billionth as smart as they think we were we could predict the future while ignoring the fact we can't even see the present without first believing.

We are a truly remarkable species. Homo omnisciencis, hear us boast.



I'm having a lot of trouble posting and the software just mangled this post.

 

[metis]

Our history begins with the "symbols" in caves. More accurately the history of "homo sapiens" begins. Before the first human being born of a mutation 40,000 years ago there was a species that looked like us but had only simple language so complex knowledge couldn't be passed down through the generations. Without this there was no means to climb onto the shoulders of giants. When the mutation occurred it spread rapidly across the face of the planet. This mutation was probably a closer connection between the wernickes speech center and higher brain functions.

When the language became too complex the official language was changed to a new type of language like our language which was formatted differently. Each individual acquires a brocas area to learn this new language and thereby acquires the "ability" to think.

We are as different to homo sapiens as we are to baboons who were even more different to the proto-humans who went extinct 40,000 years ago.

Horribly overstated as transitions tend to be very gradual, thus 40,000 years is not only a guess but largely a bad guess. Other animals think, probably better than some people here.

 

[shunyadragon]

Just wondering...but -- since you're so knowledgeable,

Careful about comments like '. . . so knowledgeable.' Extreme sarcasm does not contribute to the dialogue,

doesn't everything alive in the form of animals come from a common ancestor? What do you think?

Yes, but that is bot remotely the definition of a clade,

Meantime, no scientist can explain gravity with any verifiication except to describe some of the effects of that force.

Actually no science cannot explain gravity directly. What we know of gravity is the effects of gravity

And so far science cannot duplicate life in the form of the first cells then extending beyond to morph to other forms. Then excusing it by saying abiogenesis anyway isn't concerning evolution. Nonsense. Yes, bugs remain bugs, gorillas remain gorillas. And writing didn't start that long ago. Go prove otherwise. Oh, but you know, there's no "proof" in science, so go with that anyway. science, so go with that anyway.

'Arguing from ignorance' is nonsense your continuing fallacy concerning your intentional ignorance of the sciences of evolution.

Yes, you are confirming your claim to 'know it all' by arguing in favor of ancient tribal texts, and claiming absolutely evolution is false like @cladking based having no knowledge of science.

 

[Dimi95]

The very fact that no species on earth acted human until 40,000 years ago suggests that a new species arose 40,000 years ago. The fact that our memory and history go back only to 2000 BC suggests that a new species arose ~2000 BC.

Your memory and your history tell you so,not that of human kind.

Maybe where you come from they teach you this b******* , but where i come from we have seen the evidence with our own eyes.
And 99 % of evidence connected with ancient civilization has been taken by Alexandar the Great in his conquest , and the library in Alexandria that contained most of the information was full of booksm
We are talking about 100,000 books possibly.

They destroyed almoust all conection to the ancient world.
Whoever burned it , that's what he did.
The myths and stories that you hear , they are considered myths only because they were corrupted and out of man image of many gods were made.

Gods don't exist, they were created in the stories of man.
Don't confuse yourself,civilization existed before 2000 BCE.
These ancient civilization , they may had knowledge of building things.
But it is highly debatable what kind of knowledge is that.
Something that we don't know of , or maybe they understood only certain fields and tried to do the best with that.

The 'Vinča' symbols, associated with the 'Vinča' culture in Serbia and neighboring regions Romani, Macedonia and Bulgaria, are among the oldest known markings, dating from around 5700 to 4500 BCE.
These symbols have been found on pottery, figurines, and other artifacts across sites in southeastern Europe, including Serbia, Greece, Macedonia, Bulgaria, and Romania.

There is ongoing debate among scholars about whether these symbols represent an early form of writing or are merely symbolic or ritualistic markings.
Marija Gimbutas , one of the scholars.
proposed that the 'Vinča' symbols could be part of a proto-writing system or an early form of literacy in prehistoric Europe, referred to as 'Danube script'.

The symbols are predominantly linear and abstract, featuring geometric shapes, lines, and swirls.
Some hypotheses suggest they served various purposes, such as property marks, indicators of ownership, or even religious and ritual symbols.
The symbols have not been successfully deciphered, yet..

But we can see evidence to study it as a writing system.

The City of Plovdiv has history and prehistory that dates for 8000 years.

It is older then Athena and Argos.

City means stone structures and building procceses.

This what you say about 2000 BCE is non-sense.

But according to your logic , different species were there , right?

We have founded a cementery in the city of Plovdiv and nothing says that different species lived there.
You can always check for yourself what i say.

There are so many pyramids , and they are build differently

The pyramids are evidence in the world that people understood geometry somehow.

https://study.com/learn/lesson/pyramid-in-math.html

There are literally thousand of places to visit , to realize that.

You say things that are factually incorrect.
Why is that?

What do you think that human kind did not existed before 2000BCE?
Just because the evidence was burned?
I am sorry , but not everything is burned.
We can still see the obvious evidemce.
The evidence always comes on the surface , my friend - just to let you know.