Evolution, maybe someone can explain?

[metis]

Oh, ok, while not the subject of this thread, perhaps when I have time a discussion can be about what Jesus told his disciples to pray for. But then -- I guess a discussion would be had to figure if Jesus really said what he said and did what he did. (sigh...oh well...but people believe in the unproven and virtually unevidenced theory of evolution. By that I mean nothing to show the "in-btweens" in exactitude as if maybe tiktaalik suddenly appeared from "natural selection" maybe? of some kind of fish...
sigh. oh well and thank you really.

Let me return to Spinoza, and that is he felt that Jesus was a great model as to how the whole of humanity should behave, namely love and compassion for all.

 

[metis]

Now you double down on your error.

If it's so simple why don't you explain this method to me.

Not interested.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I find it interesting that there are those here who are reluctant and unwilling to say why they believe in God. And then there are those who are convinced they can speak with dead persons. The evidence is their own thoughts, I suppose. Few are willing to really go into it.
Yet upon serious examination for me, there is more reason to believe in my God than there is to accept or believe in (however one wants to call it) the theory of evolution. Evolution is said to lead to death. No one can say really from what or where life started. God promises life, since He is the giver of life. I believe logic shows that.
Isaiah 11 is something that is an outstanding promise from God, promising wonderful harmony and peace.
“And the wolf will actually reside for a while with the male lamb, and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together; and a mere little boy will be leader over them. And the cow and the bear themselves will feed; together their young ones will lie down. And even the lion will eat straw just like the bull. And the sucking child will certainly play upon the hole of the cobra; and upon the light aperture of a poisonous snake will a weaned child actually put his own hand.”

What do you think are the reasons to believe in your God. I can probably name some that you do not think about.

And no, no one has ever said that evolution leads to death. Where did you get that idea from? Evolution is simply a fact. Just as gravity is a fact. I guess in the same way you could claim "gravity leads to death". Actually the opposite is true of both of them. Without gravity the Earth itself would not exist. And without evolution life itself would go extinct eventually. Even if you started with a planet as full of life as right now.

 

[cladking]

Not interested.

No problem.

I wouldn't have been very interested in your answer anyway. But I would have taken the time to dissect it just like I always answer every single challenge at least once and usually dozens of times. Most of my challenges are simply ignored. Somehow some people seem to think just repeating what everyone believes is sufficient to answer anything.

 

[YoursTrue]

Let me return to Spinoza, and that is he felt that Jesus was a great model as to how the whole of humanity should behave, namely love and compassion for all.

That's nice. I won't say any more now...

 

[YoursTrue]

No problem.

I wouldn't have been very interested in your answer anyway. But I would have taken the time to dissect it just like I always answer every single challenge at least once and usually dozens of times. Most of my challenges are simply ignored. Somehow some people seem to think just repeating what everyone believes is sufficient to answer anything.

The posits of the theory of evolution are elusive, to say the least. Or most. Depending on how one looks at it.

 

[YoursTrue]

What do you think are the reasons to believe in your God. I can probably name some that you do not think about.

ok, name some and I'll tell you what I think of them.

And no, no one has ever said that evolution leads to death. Where did you get that idea from? Evolution is simply a fact. Just as gravity is a fact. I guess in the same way you could claim "gravity leads to death". Actually the opposite is true of both of them. Without gravity the Earth itself would not exist. And without evolution life itself would go extinct eventually.

Humans evolved from uh...fish...so it is said. Do fish die? Do humans die? How about plants that supposedly evolved? Do they die also? My last question to you is: is death a natural part of life?

 

[Dimi95]

You can't have read your own text. In Genesis God doesn't create light until long after [he]'s created the heavens and the earth.

First ,it's not my own text.
Second - you use transliteration that is innacurate or(maybe better) unknown.
Third - Hebrew is different , just like Arabic , Aramaic.It's not like any other language ever studies.
These languages have their own rules which are very , very komplex.
Do you understand something about orthography or at least gematria so i can bother and explain?

The NT contains five different versions of Jesus.

You need to provide a very good explenation , since you chose how to start here.
Usually when two people talk about History they ask together , OK let's see what says History and its methods since it has served us many - many times.
But ok..

Three of them (the synoptic three) promise the Apocalypse will happen within the lifetime of some of Jesus' hearers ─ Paul and John are silent on the point ─ but two thousand years later, still nothing. It's unambiguous.

See , again your empty claims without evidence.
Do you understand the common language in that period?
Have you done any analysis on the manuscripts - earlier , later , the chain of transferring information or staff like that?
Have you read the whole NT ?
Do you know how many of the earliest manuscripts are trustworthy and how is that verified?
How much of importance are the later manuscripts?
External sources regarding the topic?
Church Father letters?

I trust you've read it. Why did God not lift the famine until after the killings?

You referenced 2 Samuel 20/21, not me.So you need to back up your claim.
What is important is the kontext,right?
Are we going to see the whole passage or this is just another failed attempt of misinterpretating and playing ping-pong with verses?

On what basis do you assert that?

Ok , have you experienced anything like it?

You were unable to explain what happened to bring light into being, and that was only in a story. If you can't explain how they work, how can you assert their existence in the total absence of hard evidence that they exist?

Here we go again with this non-sense...

Ok,i will forget the Hebrew sources , probably you won't understand it.

Let's explain otherwise
As you can see in this verse, there is no timeline other than, 'In the beginning'.
-It's stating that God had created the universe, the stars, planets, and everything else making up the universe before he turned his attention to the earth to prepare it for the life he would create on it.

The six days of creation that follows are 'days' of untold length, with each 'day' showing what was done in preparing the earth , life on it and culminating with man(root - addamah;which means ground) and woman(Hawwah- which means source of life) on the sixth 'day'.

In the Scriptures the example is given that a DAY with God is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a DAY.
2 Peter 3:8 reads
'God's time is not the same as ours'

Genesis 2:4 says, This is the history(or account) of the heavens and the earth in the time they were created, in the 'DAY' that God made heaven and earth.

Here we see that now it says in the 'DAY' they were created. God is saying it was all created in a day. So, we can clearly see that God's time is not the same as ours and a day of creation could have been of untold length to us.

We know also another thing from Psalm 33:
"By the word of the Lord the heavens were made"

So we need to look where God uses his word.
Ah , yes - Genesis 1:3a:
"And God said, 'Let there be light'."

 

[Dimi95]

Let's change the subject for a moment, please. Do you believe in the concept of "natural selection" regarding evolution, and if so, can you explain it?

Google it

 

[Dimi95]

I find it interesting that there are those here who are reluctant and unwilling to say why they believe in God.

No , you have been mistaken , i don't believe - i know.

And then there are those who are convinced they can speak with dead persons.

Again your being consistent on misinterpretating Christian belief.

The evidence is their own thoughts, I suppose.

No , 2000 years of Traditional Christianity.

But that is waaaaay over your head,as usual.

Few are willing to really go into it.

Yes , there are few here that refuse to learn.

Yet upon serious examination for me, there is more reason to believe in my God

Which God ? The God of The Bible ? Are you sure that is your God?

than there is to accept or believe in (however one wants to call it) the theory of evolution.

Yes , there is much more evidence that supports the theory of Evolution.
Well , technically we need only one evidence more , if you know what i mean..

Evolution is said to lead to death.

Yes , in milions of years of evolution many species die.

No one can say really from what or where life started. God promises life, since He is the giver of life.

Deep in the ocean.
Life is not flesh and bones , it is more then that.

I believe logic shows that.

At least you got that right

Isaiah 11 is something that is an outstanding promise from God, promising wonderful harmony and peace.

I think that apologetics will suit you well.

“And the wolf will actually reside for a while with the male lamb, and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together; and a mere little boy will be leader over them. And the cow and the bear themselves will feed; together their young ones will lie down. And even the lion will eat straw just like the bull. And the sucking child will certainly play upon the hole of the cobra; and upon the light aperture of a poisonous snake will a weaned child actually put his own hand.”

You are here to do apologetics , not to discuss.

 

[YoursTrue]

Google it

I have and wonder what you think, if you agree with the concept. If it's too much for you to understand, answer, and analyze the concept, that's ok, no problem.

 

[YoursTrue]

No , you have been mistaken , i don't believe - i know.

Do you have reasons that you know God exists, and if so, perhaps you can share some of them. Thank you.

 

[Dimi95]

No! We know species change. That doesn't mean they changed gradually because of survival of the fittest.

Seafloor sediment cores are the best example for exceedingly gradual evolutionary changes. This is one of the few places where you can get excellent preservation of pretty much every single generation of a population for a certain period of time( mayne several thousand years?).The majority of the fossils in these cores are microscopic. Which is actually helpful because those microscopic creatures tend to have short generation times.

But here's the thing.
The Theory of Evolution DOES NOT actually predict that you will necessarily find exceedingly gradual change in the fossil record. It predicts that exceedingly gradual changes will accumulate in LIVING POPULATIONS over time.

The evidence for exceedingly gradual change in living opulations can be observed directly.The gradual shifts in beak size and shape among Galapagos have been documented across multiple generations over the last half century. Observations are being done , why do you reject it is what i am interested in?

Tusks shrink disappear among some elephant populations over the last several decades in response to pressure from poachers.
Is that also a lie?

The genetic evidence of the gradual spread of the gene for lactose tolerance among humans in the human genome is also another evidence.

And i think that @Dan From Smithville has mentioned the Lenski experiment.

Besides Evolutionary Biology , Taphonomy is the science that tells us how fossils form from the remains of once living creatures, how they are preserved, and how they can be found.
And Taphonomy tells us that the fossil record will be, existing or happening in small, isolated areas.
In certain locations , and if scientist are lucky they may find a very well preserved fossil bed spanning a handful of millions of years, or two such fossil beds only a few million years apart, and we can see some of the gradual changes in the fossils of the creatures that were abundant in those particular locations during that span of time. But even in these cases there are usually gaps in preservation of several million years at a minimum.
The fossil record is jumpy, and has gaps. That is why the fossil record generally shows punctuated equilibria and not steady, gradual change, and the theory of evolution does not actually predict that you will find steady, gradual change in the fossil record. It predicts that the fossil record will show jumps and gaps and leaps, with only occasional signs of slow gradual change.

Just leave the philosophy and do some science for change, no bad blood.

 

[blü 2]

Second - you use transliteration that is innacurate or(maybe better) unknown.

Again you speak whereof you know not.
You appear to be claiming to speak biblical Hebrew. Is that correct?

You referenced 2 Samuel 20/21, not me.So you need to back up your claim.

I didn't refer to 2 Samuel 20 and you either haven't read or haven't understood 2 Samuel 21.

Ok,i will forget the Hebrew sources , probably you won't understand it.

You of all people should avoid attempts at condescension.

As you can see in this verse, there is no timeline other than, 'In the beginning'.

That's all blather. The question is, HOW did God create the universe, HOW did the command Light! bring the EM spectrum into being.

Answer ─ by a miracle. But of course there isn't even one authenticated example of a real miracle. (It reminds me how nobody ever won James Randi's prize, on offer 1964-2015, which rose to $1m at the end, for anyone who could demonstrate paranormal abilities under agreed control conditions.)

In the Scriptures the example is given that a DAY with God is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a DAY.
2 Peter 3:8 reads
'God's time is not the same as ours'

It's authentically annoying when people who don't know what they're talking about pretend that a biblical reference to a day can optionally be read as meaning 'a thousand years'. The usage occurs only once in the Tanakh, with no association whatsoever to Genesis Creation, and is clearly poetic. The unknown author of 2 Peter in the NT also has zero credibility on the subject if you want to read him literally.

 

[YoursTrue]

No , you have been mistaken , i don't believe - i know.



Again your being consistent on misinterpretating Christian belief.


No , 2000 years of Traditional Christianity.

But that is waaaaay over your head,as usual.


Yes , there are few here that refuse to learn.


Which God ? The God of The Bible ? Are you sure that is your God?


Yes , there is much more evidence that supports the theory of Evolution.
Well , technically we need only one evidence more , if you know what i mean..


Yes , in milions of years of evolution many species die.


Deep in the ocean.
Life is not flesh and bones , it is more then that.


At least you got that right


I think that apologetics will suit you well.


You are here to do apologetics , not to discuss.

You misunderstand. But anyway, if you can, would you be willing to give some reasons you say that you "KNOW" God exists? Thanks.

 

[Dimi95]

Again you speak whereof you know not.
You appear to be claiming to speak biblical Hebrew. Is that correct?

I didn't refer to 2 Samuel 20 and you either haven't read or haven't understood 2 Samuel 21.

You of all people should avoid attempts at condescension.

That's all blather. The question is, HOW did God create the universe, HOW did the command Light! bring the EM spectrum into being.

Answer ─ by a miracle. But of course there isn't even one authenticated example of a real miracle. (It reminds me how nobody ever won James Randi's prize, on offer 1964-2015, which rose to $1m at the end, for anyone who could demonstrate paranormal abilities under agreed control conditions.)

It's authentically annoying when people who don't know what they're talking about pretend that a biblical reference to a day can optionally be read as meaning 'a thousand years'. The usage occurs only once in the Tanakh, with no association whatsoever to Genesis Creation, and is clearly poetic. The unknown author of 2 Peter in the NT also has zero credibility on the subject if you want to read him literally.

You should change the name , you answered to another person.

 

[YoursTrue]

Google it

So then, would you say we die by natural selection? Or would you prefer I Google it?

Seafloor sediment cores are the best example for exceedingly gradual evolutionary changes. This is one of the few places where you can get excellent preservation of pretty much every single generation of a population for a certain period of time( mayne several thousand years?).The majority of the fossils in these cores are microscopic. Which is actually helpful because those microscopic creatures tend to have short generation times.

But here’s the thing.
The Theory of Evolution DOES NOT actually predict that you will necessarily find exceedingly gradual change in the fossil record. It predicts that exceedingly gradual changes will accumulate in LIVING POPULATIONS over time.

The evidence for exceedingly gradual change in living opulations can be observed directly.The gradual shifts in beak size and shape among Galapagos have been documented across multiple generations over the last half century. Observations are being done , why do you reject it is what i am interested in?

Tusks shrink disappear among some elephant populations over the last several decades in response to pressure from poachers.
Is that also a lie?

The genetic evidence of the gradual spread of the gene for lactose tolerance among humans in the human genome is also another evidence.

And i think that @Dan From Smithville has mentioned the Lenski experiment.

Besides Evolutionary Biology , Taphonomy is the science that tells us how fossils form from the remains of once living creatures, how they are preserved, and how they can be found.
And Taphonomy tells us that the fossil record will be, existing or happening in small, isolated areas.
In certain locations , and if scientist are lucky they may find a very well preserved fossil bed spanning a handful of millions of years, or two such fossil beds only a few million years apart, and we can see some of the gradual changes in the fossils of the creatures that were abundant in those particular locations during that span of time. But even in these cases there are usually gaps in preservation of several million years at a minimum.
The fossil record is jumpy, and has gaps. That is why the fossil record generally shows punctuated equilibria and not steady, gradual change, and the theory of evolution does not actually predict that you will find steady, gradual change in the fossil record. It predicts that the fossil record will show jumps and gaps and leaps, with only occasional signs of slow gradual change.

Just leave the philosophy and do some science for change, no bad blood.

Death is the consequence or end result of living. Do you agree?

 

[YoursTrue]

No , you have been mistaken , i don't believe - i know.



Again your being consistent on misinterpretating Christian belief.


No , 2000 years of Traditional Christianity.

But that is waaaaay over your head,as usual.


Yes , there are few here that refuse to learn.


Which God ? The God of The Bible ? Are you sure that is your God?


Yes , there is much more evidence that supports the theory of Evolution.
Well , technically we need only one evidence more , if you know what i mean..


Yes , in milions of years of evolution many species die.


Deep in the ocean.
Life is not flesh and bones , it is more then that.


At least you got that right


I think that apologetics will suit you well.


You are here to do apologetics , not to discuss.

Well, let's go over it again. Is death the end result of living organisms?

 

[YoursTrue]

Seafloor sediment cores are the best example for exceedingly gradual evolutionary changes. This is one of the few places where you can get excellent preservation of pretty much every single generation of a population for a certain period of time( mayne several thousand years?).The majority of the fossils in these cores are microscopic. Which is actually helpful because those microscopic creatures tend to have short generation times.

But here’s the thing.
The Theory of Evolution DOES NOT actually predict that you will necessarily find exceedingly gradual change in the fossil record. It predicts that exceedingly gradual changes will accumulate in LIVING POPULATIONS over time.

The evidence for exceedingly gradual change in living opulations can be observed directly.The gradual shifts in beak size and shape among Galapagos have been documented across multiple generations over the last half century. Observations are being done , why do you reject it is what i am interested in?

Tusks shrink disappear among some elephant populations over the last several decades in response to pressure from poachers.
Is that also a lie?

The genetic evidence of the gradual spread of the gene for lactose tolerance among humans in the human genome is also another evidence.

And i think that @Dan From Smithville has mentioned the Lenski experiment.

Besides Evolutionary Biology , Taphonomy is the science that tells us how fossils form from the remains of once living creatures, how they are preserved, and how they can be found.
And Taphonomy tells us that the fossil record will be, existing or happening in small, isolated areas.
In certain locations , and if scientist are lucky they may find a very well preserved fossil bed spanning a handful of millions of years, or two such fossil beds only a few million years apart, and we can see some of the gradual changes in the fossils of the creatures that were abundant in those particular locations during that span of time. But even in these cases there are usually gaps in preservation of several million years at a minimum.
The fossil record is jumpy, and has gaps. That is why the fossil record generally shows punctuated equilibria and not steady, gradual change, and the theory of evolution does not actually predict that you will find steady, gradual change in the fossil record. It predicts that the fossil record will show jumps and gaps and leaps, with only occasional signs of slow gradual change.

Just leave the philosophy and do some science for change, no bad blood.

No fossil found exemplifies the theory of natural selection.

 

[McBell]

No fossil found exemplifies the theory of natural selection.

Prove it.