Evolution My ToE

[tas8831]

as if nature were just left to run its course, working under existing conditions with what was available.

Huh... sort of like maybe creatures could accumulate change over tome, or something...

 

[tas8831]

I think he just kept changing his mind.
First he tried australopethicus. Then he thought "nah... far too hairy and too monkey-like"
Then homo habilis. But they still kept crawling in trees!
Then he tried homo erectus. But then he figured "these guys are so small, what the heck was I thinking... they'll look ridiculous riding that horse I plan on making"
After some more trials, he came up with Neanderthals. He got a bit carried away with this one. "Djeezus Gabriel, look at this 14-year old girl... she looks like a miniature Swarzenneger..." Gabriel replied "who???" God said: "ow right... nevermind, you'll see in a couple 100.000 years what I mean..."

Then came Homo Sapiens and god saw it was good.



This is actually rather consistent with how this god's behaviour is described in the bible. There too he can't seem to get anything right. It's failure after failure after failure... First that garden and that then goes wrong. Then he again needs to intervene with the whole babel, soddom & gomorra thingy... It goes so wrong he even needs to literally flush the world once. And then, when all is said and done, surprise surprise, it goes wrong again.

Slaughter - Worship Me - slaughter - Worship e! - curve for all time with mutations - Worship me because I love you so much - here, have my kid that is actually me to torture and kill!

 

[YoursTrue]

OK, how would we go about determining if two species are of the same 'kind'? Even if we don't know, what would be a process by which we could figure it out?

I'm assuming 'kind' means animals like giraffes or elephants. And snakes.
For instance, "Elephant Species
It is estimated that there were once more than 350 species of elephants in the world. Today we only have two of them left – the Asian and the Africa species." (Types of Elephants)

... fish share an ancestor that lived about that time. That was when vertebrates first appeared and both cats and fish are types of vertebrates.

I'd have to have more than your word on this.

 

[Polymath257]

I'm assuming 'kind' means animals like giraffes or elephants. And snakes.
For instance, "Elephant Species
It is estimated that there were once more than 350 species of elephants in the world. Today we only have two of them left – the Asian and the Africa species." (Types of Elephants)

OK, so I assume you would consider wooly mammoths and mastodons to be types of elephants?

How about gomphotheres?
Gomphothere - Wikipedia

How about deinotheres?
Deinotherium - Wikipedia

And what would you say if I said that the genetic distance between modern elephants and mastodons is larger than that between modern humans and chimps? How would that affect your views on these?

 

[Audie]

OK, so I assume you would consider wooly mammoths and mastodons to be types of elephants?

How about gomphotheres?
Gomphothere - Wikipedia

How about deinotheres?
Deinotherium - Wikipedia

And what would you say if I said that the genetic distance between modern elephants and mastodons is larger than that between modern humans and chimps? How would that affect your views on these?

See if you can calculate genetic difference between a primitive snake such as
a python and some other, sayba rattlesnake.

Those are pretty much the extremes of the ophidian suborder.

What would be comparable to include in the same "kind" of mammal or
bird? I bet cats dogs and bears are closer than python
and rattlesnake.

 

[Audie]

Yeah, I'm not buying that.

I think you're just playing dumb.

Anything to avoid acknowledging your dishonesty.

I feel like I would be insulting your intelligence to think otherwise.

And his thread started with such bright promise

 

[YoursTrue]

Is that what you think the theory of evolution says happens?

To an extent, yes. Because from what I read, there were different branches coming from that first whatever it was. (unicell maybe?)

 

[YoursTrue]

More specifically, the ancestor was a miacid.
Miacidae - Wikipedia


Not just likely. Definitely.

Other than being obvious, what is your point for this?



And your point?

Instead of breeding cats for only the last 3000 years, what would happen if we consistently bred them for 1 million? Do you see that the end result is very likely NOT what people today would see to be a cat?

So what were cats 3000 years ago?

 

[Polymath257]

So what were cats 3000 years ago?

That recently? Pretty similar to modern housecats, although without all the varieties.

Not much change happens in mammalian species in only 50,000 years usually. That is an *instant* in geological time.

 

[Polymath257]

See if you can calculate genetic difference between a primitive snake such as
a python and some other, sayba rattlesnake.

Those are pretty much the extremes of the ophidian suborder.

What would be comparable to include in the same "kind" of mammal or
bird? I bet cats dogs and bears are closer than python
and rattlesnake.

Certainly humans and chimps are closer. Since those on your list are all carnivores and Carnivora is about the same level as Ophidia, I'm not as sure on that comparison, but you may well be right.

 

[Audie]

Certainly humans and chimps are closer. Since those on your list are all carnivores and Carnivora is about the same level as Ophidia, I'm not as sure on that comparison, but you may well be right.

The difference is about like the difference betwee. humans and
lemurs.

 

[YoursTrue]

Well, given how long ago that happened, we don't have the genetics from the relevant fish and amphibians. But we *can* and *do* compare the genetics of living amphibians and fish and yes, amphibians do, in fact, show up in the genetic trees under a certain branch of fish.

Again, even if that were true, I'd like to see & understand the findings. So you say amphibians do show up in the genetic trees under a certain branch of fish. They do? Other than saying yes, I'd like to see more than the report -- but the analysis. Thanks.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Again, even if that were true, I'd like to see & understand the findings. So you say amphibians do show up in the genetic trees under a certain branch of fish. They do? Other than saying yes, I'd like to see more than the report -- but the analysis. Thanks.

Do you think that you would understand the analysis?

 

[YoursTrue]

What they became is fish that can crawl on land.

Researchers just found four new species of walking sharks off the coast of Australia and New Guinea.
Walking sharks discovered in the tropics

OK, what did sharks supposedly evolve from? I'm not sure of the way of the so-called branching explanation. I'll leave it there for the moment. The article says they are a species.

 

[Subduction Zone]

OK, what did sharks supposedly evolve from? I'm not sure of the way of the so-called branching explanation. I'll leave it there for the moment. The article says they are a species.

A question asked without any real purpose is a foolish question. Looking for a reason not to accept reality is not a real purpose.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Huh... sort of like maybe creatures could accumulate change over tome, or something...

Sort of gradual and not instantaneous. Not starting from scratch each time or exploding into existence fully formed and unchanging.

Some sciency person should really make a theory explaining all that stuff.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

No teacher will appreciate someone playing chick tract

Is that like pigeon chess with chickens? We're gonna need a bigger board.

Da-dum. Da-dum. Da-dum da-dum da-dum da-dum daaaaaaaa.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I'm assuming 'kind' means animals like giraffes or elephants. And snakes.
For instance, "Elephant Species
It is estimated that there were once more than 350 species of elephants in the world. Today we only have two of them left – the Asian and the Africa species." (Types of Elephants)

So how many species of primate are there?
Or how many species of mammal?
Or how many species of tetrapods?
Or how many species of vertebrates?
Or how many species of eukaryotes?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Again, even if that were true, I'd like to see & understand the findings. So you say amphibians do show up in the genetic trees under a certain branch of fish. They do? Other than saying yes, I'd like to see more than the report -- but the analysis. Thanks.

You're going to have to study up on genetics first (and not just a little bit) in order to understand those technical papers

 

[Subduction Zone]

You're going to have to study up on genetics first (and not just a little bit) in order to understand those technical papers

Don't you love it when people that refuse to even learn the basics of science demand to see highly technical papers?

I know that if I was given one of those papers to read that I would be spending more time looking up and trying to understand terminology than reading the actual paper. And even if I got all of the way through such a paper I would not be in any position to judge whether it is valid or not.