Evolution My ToE

[Hockeycowboy]

I can't see God wanting Christians so excited at what the consider to be the demise of so many that are not saved.

Unlike what Christendom teaches,
the Bible teaches that almost everyone who dies, will be resurrected.

God’s love is evident, when the Scriptures are properly understood. Even life again for the “unrighteous.” — Acts 24:15

Jehovah & Jesus, they both paid a heavy price because of their love for mankind. (John 3:16) It’s not the end of people that we (JW’s) await …. It’s the end of injustices and wickedness that we look forward to. “Thy Will be done on earth…”

Have a good day.

 

[YoursTrue]

Here's a hint....

On precisely the subject of evolution vs creationism, the pope once said: "God is not a wizard with a magic wand".
As for the rest... I'm pretty sure the Pope (and devout catholics) believe in the virgin birth, jesus as a miracle worker, etc.

Here's the dichotomy as I see it. Obviously the Pope may not see it this way. Some people (not sure if they're all atheists at least on these forums) speak of anything short of evolution as magic if an account defies the natural law. So obviously there are those who do not believe the miracles as such in the Bible but may classify certain things as mythical. Because maybe they don't want to use the word magic in that sense. If an atheist says such a thing I would certainly respect his viewpoint even though I do not agree. Because he's being honest to himself and others in his opinion. Even though I do not agree. At least he's not a hypocrite. And people can change.

 

[YoursTrue]

Here's a hint....

On precisely the subject of evolution vs creationism, the pope once said: "God is not a wizard with a magic wand".
As for the rest... I'm pretty sure the Pope (and devout catholics) believe in the virgin birth, jesus as a miracle worker, etc.

Now that I am reading it again, I really do wonder what the Pope meant by that in an expanded view. So those calling themselves Christian here yes, I wonder if they believe in the distinct process of evolution...extending to...yes, what about Mary getting pregnant? Would they say that goes against the theory of evolution? If they do why not explain it? If like the Pope says God is not a wizard...

 

[YoursTrue]

In any event, I don't believe God wants Christians to be so cheerful about gloom and doom. I can't see God wanting Christians so excited at what the consider to be the demise of so many that are not saved. Some groups don't seem to consider anyone not them to be Christian or have a snowballs chance and seem pretty arrogant and happy about it to me. According to them, they know when it will all happen too. Oddly, the Bible says otherwise, but I guess those groups interpret these things as they see fit and decide that's how it is for everyone.

What's gloom and doom? Evolution certainly has death as the outcome, doesn't it, of everything and anything that's alive.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Now that I am reading it again, I really do wonder what the Pope meant by that in an expanded

What he means is that he sees no issues in believing that evolution is just the process the god he believes in used to "create" humans.
And that it is rather unsophisticated to ignore all evidence and instead insist that he magicked species into existence.

 

[gnostic]

Natural selection is not all-powerful; it does not produce perfection.

if you think that’s what Natural Selection is all about, then you have not understood Natural Selection at all.

Nothing in the theory of Evolution say anything about perfection. That you just being ignorant & being incompetent on the subject.

Natural Selection is about having traits inherited being more adapted to the changed environment, and being able to reproduce. Nothing in the theory stated that traits must be “perfect”.

Adaption doesn’t equate to perfection, nPeace.

 

[gnostic]

What's gloom and doom? Evolution certainly has death as the outcome, doesn't it, of everything and anything that's alive.

yet, another creationist who is incompetent in biology.

All life eventually die, that‘s the nature of the life. Nothing live forever, no living organisms are immortal. Some have longer lifespans, while others have shorter lifespans.

The majority that life longer, will eventually die from old age, because the cells in tissues eventually breakdown. While others may died from diseases or killed naturally through certain events, eg flood, fire, energy resources (eg food for animals) have become scarce, or being killed by predation, etc.

All that happened whether evolution occurred or not. Organisms will die, regardless if Evolution exists or not.

Nothing in the theory stated organism evolved into perfect organisms that don’t die.

Evolution is about abilities to adapt to environment, and the abilities to reproduce and past on the adapted traits, to the following generations.

In all the years that you have posted here at RF, you haven’t learned anything. You just continue to make up things that are incorrect or dishonestly false. And I should not be surprised, as I haven’t encountered a single JW who can grasp basic biology, nor argue without deception.

 

[metis]

What some can't get past is the erroneous concept that the ToE and the scriptures are incompatible, quite possibly because some misinformed or dishonest clergy told them as such. I know I was misinformed as such when a teen by our pastor.

 

[YoursTrue]

yet, another creationist who is incompetent in biology.

All life eventually die, that‘s the nature of the life. Nothing live forever, no living organisms are immortal. Some have longer lifespans, while others have shorter lifespans.

The majority that life longer, will eventually die from old age, because the cells in tissues eventually breakdown. While others may died from diseases or killed naturally through certain events, eg flood, fire, energy resources (eg food for animals) have become scarce, or being killed by predation, etc.

All that happened whether evolution occurred or not. Organisms will die, regardless if Evolution exists or not.

Nothing in the theory stated organism evolved into perfect organisms that don’t die.

Evolution is about abilities to adapt to environment, and the abilities to reproduce and past on the adapted traits, to the following generations.

In all the years that you have posted here at RF, you haven’t learned anything. You just continue to make up things that are incorrect or dishonestly false. And I should not be surprised, as I haven’t encountered a single JW who can grasp basic biology, nor argue without deception.

Yes you got it. According to the theory as goes, death is the end prospect of life. Have a good one!

 

[YoursTrue]

What some do not recognize or want to admit is that God is not bound by the laws of...evolution. and more.

 

[YoursTrue]

if you think that’s what Natural Selection is all about, then you have not understood Natural Selection at all.

Nothing in the theory of Evolution say anything about perfection. That you just being ignorant & being incompetent on the subject.

Natural Selection is about having traits inherited being more adapted to the changed environment, and being able to reproduce. Nothing in the theory stated that traits must be “perfect”.

Adaption doesn’t equate to perfection, nPeace.

Sorry to say because I don't want to hurt your evolved feelings but what you say above isn't making sense. Since you are confirmed in your viewpoint, my answer to any questions you may hove about the comment is...have a good one!! Bye for now...

 

[YoursTrue]

What he means is that he sees no issues in believing that evolution is just the process the god he believes in used to "create" humans.
And that it is rather unsophisticated to ignore all evidence and instead insist that he magicked species into existence.

Uh huh like you believe what the Pope says about things? While the Pope may not call it magic in reference to miracles, and he may also not call Jesus birth to a virgin 'myth,' it sure is cognitive dissonance to some to say evolution is true in all its aspects but Jesus entered a virgin's womb by...uh...magic??

 

[Valjean]

What some do not recognize or want to admit is that God is not bound by the laws of...evolution. and more.

There are no laws of evolution. The known mechanisms are sufficient to explain how change occurs. No further manipulation is necessary.
And what evidence do you have about God's limitations? You don't even have sufficient evidence of His existence, much less His capabilities or actions.

 

[YoursTrue]

And that it is rather unsophisticated to ignore all evidence and instead insist that he magicked species into existence.

So then would you say that the Pope and some others who claim to be Christian but not Catholic believe that God created the heavens and the earth? And that Jesus rose up in the air by natural forces? I wonder how they relegate certain events written in the Bible with natural forces, myths, or -- perhaps magic. I have not spoken to the Pope, but it's a good question.

 

[YoursTrue]

There are no laws of evolution. The known mechanisms are sufficient to explain how change occurs. No further manipulation is necessary.
And what evidence do you have about God's limitations? You don't even have sufficient evidence of His existence, much less His capabilities or actions.

So evolution and mutations by chance expanding to other forms of life have no basis in any natural laws, is that what you are saying? But that is not really my question right now. If a person, any person, believes the earth and universe and everything in it came about by laws of physics perhaps how might a religious person like the Pope, of course, and those who follow perhaps his teachings, explain things like Jesus born of a virgin (if evolution is true) and him rising to heaven. Against the "laws of nature," or physics perhaps. Could they explain unless of course they want to say it's mythical. But maybe pray to Jesus or Mary in heaven as if somehow -- against the laws of nature or physics, they went there. Thanks for mentioning that about there are no "laws" of evolution. Only circumstances and mutations perhaps? And growth? etc. So let's see how someone (not yourself, of course) might explain why or how they believe in Darwinian evolution and yet go to church even performing certain ceremonies.

 

[Valjean]

Sorry to say because I don't want to hurt your evolved feelings but what you say above isn't making sense. Since you are confirmed in your viewpoint, my answer to any questions you may hove about the comment is...have a good one!! Bye for now...

Evolution is about survival and reproduction. In a changing environment no design remains perfect, or even gets there. Good enough, to maintain the species, is sufficient.

Uh huh like you believe what the Pope says about things? While the Pope may not call it magic in reference to miracles, and he may also not call Jesus birth to a virgin 'myth,' it sure is cognitive dissonance to some to say evolution is true in all its aspects but Jesus entered a virgin's womb by...uh...magic??

"Magic in reference to miracles?" Isn't that redundant?
Jesus' virgin birth? What evidence do you have for that, save folklore? There is actual, observable, tested evidence of evolution. I know of none for any human virgin births.

 

[YoursTrue]

Evolution is about survival and reproduction. In a changing environment no design remains perfect, or even gets there. Good enough, to maintain the species, is sufficient.

"Magic in reference to miracles?" Isn't that redundant?
Jesus' virgin birth? What evidence do you have for that, save folklore? There is actual, observable, tested evidence of evolution. I know of none for any human virgin births.

I suggest you ask those here who go to church and believe in the process of evolution what they believe about such things as Jesus raising his friend Lazarus from the dead and ascension to heaven for starters. I mean the Pope is hard to reach, even though some here who go to church are not Catholic but firmly also believe in the process of evolution. They could be able to help you. Thanks.

 

[Valjean]

So evolution and mutations by chance expanding to other forms of life have no basis in any natural laws, is that what you are saying?

I'm saying the mechanisms are known, but they're not natural laws.

But that is not really my question right now. If a person, any person, believes the earth and universe and everything in it came about by laws of physics perhaps how might a religious person like the Pope, of course, and those who follow perhaps his teachings, explain things like Jesus born of a virgin (if evolution is true) and him rising to heaven.

I don't believe a Pope can explain a virgin birth or someone rising to Heaven, nor do I see what evolution would have to do with it. If you make these claims please produce evidence, otherwise I'm forced to retain my skepticism.

Against the "laws of nature," or physics perhaps. Could they explain unless of course they want to say it's mythical. But maybe pray to Jesus or Mary in heaven as if somehow -- against the laws of nature or physics, they went there. Thanks for mentioning that about there are no "laws" of evolution. Only circumstances and mutations perhaps? And growth? etc. So let's see how someone (not yourself, of course) might explain why or how they believe in Darwinian evolution and yet go to church even performing certain ceremonies.

In don't understand what you're talking about here, YT. What's against the laws of nature, and what's this mythical "it" you mention?
There are mechanisms of evolution, as has been explained to you a hundred times: natural selection, genetic drift, gene flow/migration, mutation. These are not laws.

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm saying the mechanisms are known, but they're not natural laws.

Oopsie doopsie -- I did a little research and come up with the following about "laws," and it seems to me that because of the continuance of life there is some law going on. But here it is:
" In light of the overwhelming evidence that supports the theory, evolution by natural selection is right up there with the law of gravity, the law of conservation of energy, and the law of supply and demand. We think it’s time to ditch the word “theory” and call it the “law of evolution.” That from The Law of Evolution: Darwin, Wallace, and the Survival of the Fittest - Genetic Twists of Fate - NCBI Bookshelf.

I don't believe a Pope can explain a virgin birth or someone rising to Heaven, nor do I see what evolution would have to do with it. If you make these claims please produce evidence, otherwise I'm forced to retain my skepticism.

Let me try to explain, if possible, and hopefully you will understand what I'm saying. IF, as the Pope and some others say, evolution is true beyond doubt more or less, and life as we know it came about by the natural law(?)/reaction(?)process(?) whatever word you want to use, then a person logically would conclude that somehow Mary did not get pregnant "naturally," (or by the laws of nature, if you believe there are any laws of nature) and similarly, by the generally scientifically accepted laws of magnetism or however you want to put it scientifically, Jesus ascended to heaven.

In don't understand what you're talking about here, YT. What's against the laws of nature, and what's this mythical "it" you mention?
There are mechanisms of evolution, as has been explained to you a hundred times: natural selection, genetic drift, gene flow/migration, mutation. These are not laws.

OK, sorry you don't understand. I'll try again. IF evolution is true, then of course how would someone who goes to church maintain that miracles happened? Of course it would be good if someone who goes to church and believes in the process of evolution would answer that...

 

[Subduction Zone]

Oopsie doopsie -- I did a little research and come up with the following about "laws," and it seems to me that because of the continuance of life there is some law going on. But here it is:
" In light of the overwhelming evidence that supports the theory, evolution by natural selection is right up there with the law of gravity, the law of conservation of energy, and the law of supply and demand. We think it’s time to ditch the word “theory” and call it the “law of evolution.” That from The Law of Evolution: Darwin, Wallace, and the Survival of the Fittest - Genetic Twists of Fate - NCBI Bookshelf.


Let me try to explain, if possible, and hopefully you will understand what I'm saying. IF, as the Pope and some others say, evolution is true beyond doubt more or less, and life as we know it came about by the natural law(?)/reaction(?)process(?) whatever word you want to use, then a person logically would conclude that somehow Mary did not get pregnant "naturally," (or by the laws of nature, if you believe there are any laws of nature) and similarly, by the generally scientifically accepted laws of magnetism or however you want to put it scientifically, Jesus ascended to heaven.

OK, sorry you don't understand. I'll try again. IF evolution is true, then of course how would someone who goes to church maintain that miracles happened? Of course it would be good if someone who goes to church and believes in the process of evolution would answer that...

There could be a deeper understanding of the Bible. One where one does not need a magical God.