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Evolution of Exploding Kamizake Ants

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Think of reproduction in ants as at the colony level rather than the species or individual level. In that case, a more successful colony would tend to favor genes, not more successful individuals. See my comment in post #12.

It's still an ability in this specific species, carried in the genes. But other than that, yes, I agree.
 

Copernicus

Industrial Strength Linguist
And also why some members only get this seemingly horrible fate?
Think of the exploding ants as autonomous weapons. They are genetically programmed to serve that purpose in the event of a war with rivals. Since they play no role in reproduction, it doesn't affect the DNA of progeny when they die. Humans are different, because we reproduce on an individual level, unlike those insect colonies.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Think of the exploding ants as autonomous weapons. They are genetically programmed to serve that purpose in the event of a war with rivals. Since they play no role in reproduction, it doesn't affect the DNA of progeny when they die. Humans are different, because we reproduce on an individual level, unlike those insect colonies.

ha ha. Robots, in short. Thanks.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
And also why some members only get this seemingly horrible fate?
Because, not all genes are expressed the same way in all individuals.

In ants there is a strong environmental component to how individuals develop and thus how their genes are expressed.
Treat a larva one way and you will get a worker, treat it slightly differently and you get a soldier.

wa:do
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Because, not all genes are expressed the same way in all individuals.

In ants there is a strong environmental component to how individuals develop and thus how their genes are expressed.
Treat a larva one way and you will get a worker, treat it slightly differently and you get a soldier.

wa:do

Thank you.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Camponotus saundersi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Can someone explain how a creature develops the power to sacrificially explode toxic glue on its enemies and how this suicidal trait was passed on since its development?

I can't seem to find much (anything) about it for some reason. There seems to be an article somewhere called "Evolution of Voluntary Self-Sacrifice (Autothysis) in a Clade of Exploding Ants."" but I can't seem to find a public version of it. If anyone with a link can provide it I'd like to see what it says.

It helps to defend the rest of the colony, who survive to reproduce.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Yes, the ones who do the suicide bombing are not the ones who do the breeding, so how does the trait to even go Kamikaze develop from the ones who do the breeding?

Because the whole species carries the genetics, even if they don't manifest in each individual specimen.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Can someone explain how a creationist develops the power to repeatedly throw themselves against a brick wall?
I have a theory about that.

We are genetically coded to express different mental types. Some types which will emerge:
- Child: Sees phenomena as orchestrated by an authority figure, eg, the FSM.
- Meh: Goes about one's life not seeking explanations for the material world.
- Scientist: Understands the world in terms of what is seen. Stochastic processes eschew the need for an authority figure.
- Engineer: Exploits the scientist to build cool things & make money.
- Rebel: Whatever is common belief, it shall be opposed with novel ideas.
- Ruler: Loves to be in charge.
- _______ <--- Add your own suggestion here.

All types serve a useful function to the tribe. And of course, individuals may comprise more than one type. "Child" will make a good soldier.
"Meh" will make a good shopkeeper, & be no threat to "Ruler". "Scientist" & "Engineer" will provide technology. "Ruler" will slay enemies.
Rebel ensures that new ideas will be in constant supply. They will be adopted when the tribe needs them. As a society, we are stronger
with such diversity than if we had a single type, no matter what combination composed it. So it's possible that this variation is not entirely
the result of random phenotypical variation, but rather variation is built in to our genetic code.

Consequently, I don't see my fundie friends as defective for believing things I see as wrong. They are perfectly normal, but with a different
outlook on how things work. Tis as though they're programmed for a role in which faith is useful, & I'm programmed to be revolting...which
must have some use to someone. We're all doomed to beat our heads against a different brick wall.
 
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Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Here's a new term I learned just yesterday that I haven't heard before, hologenemics.

It's the theory that bacteria and flora also is part of not only shaping an individual's development, but that it changes evolution. The article I read was about all the foreign macrobal things that live in our body, in symbiosis with us, healthy bacteria, yeast, etc, that has influenced and steered the evolution of us humans. The same thing would be true for any animal with a gut or blood support system.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Just google "ants" atanu. Worker ants don't reproduce. Only the queen(s) lay eggs and reproduce.

Think of an ant colony as a single organism with detachable cells. Different cells do different jobs.
 

Shermana

Heretic
Because those nests where the trait is present are more likely to survive and thrive.

wa:do

Okay so how does that trait develop? This aspect of the "WHY" is well established.

So far we've seen something about the "glue" being a beneficial adaptation and you theorized that the "stresses" may cause the irritant to go into self-destruct mode.

But the million dollar question is: HOW does that develop in the first place?
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Okay so how does that trait develop? This aspect of the "WHY" is well established.

So far we've seen something about the "glue" being a beneficial adaptation and you theorized that the "stresses" may cause the irritant to go into self-destruct mode.

But the million dollar question is: HOW does that develop in the first place?

Shermana

I will say that the TOE does not deny or propose a person who guIdes the process. I am sure of this.

It is we, the interested parties that (a) use TOE to deny the special Person or (b) feel offended when the special Person of their conception is denied.

IMO, both the above are unnecessary.

(This is my view alone. YMMV).:)
 
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