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"Evolution taken on faith" taken on faith.

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
You are wanting someone to prove something can't happen that hasn't been observed, such as frog to man. I would suggest that it is up to you to prove something did happen that hasn't been observed to happen. Do you also want me to prove there are no aliens? :facepalm: Proving something wrong that has its base on philosophy, such as evolution does, is pretty hard. It would be like me telling that you need to prove there is no God.

Amazing! You're over-thinking it without even thinking, really. Absolutely amazing!
 

johnhanks

Well-Known Member
Proving something wrong that has its base on philosophy, such as evolution does, is pretty hard.
The modern theory of evolution has its base in empirical observation, not abstract philosophy.

The key observations are:
  1. The body form members of a population develop is determined by the DNA base sequences (genomes) their zygotes inherit.
  2. The genomes of all known life forms consist of the same four chemical bases, in varying sequences.
  3. By a variety of mechanisms, genomes change measurably from generation to generation.
  4. No barrier has ever been observed that would limit the extent of this change and thus prevent the genome of a given population changing to the genome of a different taxon.

Collectively, points 1-4 provide a viable mechanism whereby transitions observed in nature may occur, whether these are at "micro" level (such as subspecies divergence) or "macro" (such as the emergence of new families or orders in the fossil record).
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
You are wanting someone to prove something can't happen that hasn't been observed, such as frog to man.
Wrong. Macro-evolution has been evidenced thoroughly in DNA and the fossil record, and is the most likely conclusion given the available data. We have found no mechanism whatsoever that prevents speciation above the macro-level, and every single piece of available geological, paleoneological and genetic evidence indicates strongly that all life shares a common ancestor. All you need to do is falsify the claim. You could, for example, show us how genes prevent speciation above the macro-level, or find a fossil of a contemporary species that is found to have existed alongside their supposed evolutionary ancestors.

Also, humans didn't evolve from frogs. I suggest your iron-out these misconceptions about what evolution actually states before attempting to lecture us on it.

I would suggest that it is up to you to prove something did happen that hasn't been observed to happen.
See above. The evidence is all very clear. It is up to you to falsify it.

Do you also want me to prove there are no aliens? :facepalm: Proving something wrong that has its base on philosophy, such as evolution does, is pretty hard. It would be like me telling that you need to prove there is no God.
Except for the fact that common ancestry has tonnes of available evidence in favour for it, and the fact that, as explained above, evolution would actually be very easy to falsify. I gave only a couple of examples of things we would expect to see if evolution were false, and I'm sure lots of other posters would be happy to post more. To say that evolution cannot be falsified is both ignorant and dishonest.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
I got sick when I dissected a frog and knew it wasn't for me. It's interesting to me that creationists have to be the critical thinkers and skeptics on this subject.

So, did you watch any of the class, or what? Is ignoring something synonymous with thinking critically and skeptically about something?
 

Midnight Rain

Well-Known Member
I got sick when I dissected a frog and knew it wasn't for me. It's interesting to me that creationists have to be the critical thinkers and skeptics on this subject.
Can you honestly say that someone who feels science or biology is "not for them" is the critical skeptic on said subject?
 

NulliuSINverba

Active Member
Proving something wrong that has its base on philosophy, such as evolution does, is pretty hard. It would be like me telling that you need to prove there is no God.

Let's set aside questions of "right" and "wrong" for a moment. Please elaborate on your claim that evolution is based on philosophy.

If you'd like, perhaps you could scour The Origin Of Species and explain to me exactly what philosophy (or philosophies) Charles Darwin was basing his theory of natural selection on?

Because the last time I checked, evolution was based on biology and not on philosophy.

But by all means ... feel free to expound on your assertion.
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
You are wanting someone to prove something can't happen that hasn't been observed, such as frog to man. I would suggest that it is up to you to prove something did happen that hasn't been observed to happen. Do you also want me to prove there are no aliens? :facepalm: Proving something wrong that has its base on philosophy, such as evolution does, is pretty hard. It would be like me telling that you need to prove there is no God.
No, it would be very easy to prove evolution wrong, just find a rabbit fossil in the Permian (or something similar).
 

Midnight Rain

Well-Known Member
What is exactly the specific problems people have with evolution? Specific things. Not "It can't happen" because that isn't enough. What processes or lack-thereof in nature inhibit evolution from being a viable explanation?
 

Sapiens

Polymathematician
What is exactly the specific problems people have with evolution? Specific things. Not "It can't happen" because that isn't enough. What processes or lack-thereof in nature inhibit evolution from being a viable explanation?
The problem that they perceive with evolution is that it contradicts their Bible and the underpinnings of their church and what they perceive to be the moral construct that protects them.
 

dust1n

Zindīq
Still no creationists to take the class? That's strange. Why wouldn't creationists want to take a science class?
 

NulliuSINverba

Active Member
What is exactly the specific problems people have with evolution?

It doesn't specifically give all praise and credit to an alleged-to-exist supernatural being. For starters. Y'all.

Specific things. Not "It can't happen" because that isn't enough.

Well, first of all, it can't happen. Secondly, it can't happen because the Bible doesn't mention it. So it can't happen. Third, some people insist that they didn't come from no damned monkey. So it can't happen. Third, people typically mutter something about the Second Law of Thermodynamics. So it can't happen. Also, a lot of people just feel that it couldn't have happened. So it can't happen.

We can review some other reasons that it can't happen if you'd like. What I've listed above should serve to get an intelligent, rational conversation started, don't you agree?

What processes or lack-thereof in nature inhibit evolution from being a viable explanation?

Have you ever seen a tree turn into a Mercedes convertible? I didn't think so.
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
Well at least Jim Bob is eating healthier. I was wondering do they have eye witness quotes for any of those courses for any of the 3.7 billion years. You know it helps the Holy books to have all those eye witnesses.

"eye witness quotes"

Every plant and animal on Earth.

Scientific American

The Origin of Oxygen in Earth's Atmosphere

The breathable air we enjoy today originated from tiny organisms, although the details remain lost in geologic time

"So how did Earth end up with an atmosphere made up of roughly 21 percent of the stuff?

The answer is tiny organisms known as cyanobacteria, or blue-green algae. These microbes conduct photosynthesis: using sunshine, water and carbon dioxide to produce carbohydrates and, yes, oxygen. In fact, all the plants on Earth incorporate symbiotic cyanobacteria (known as chloroplasts) to do their photosynthesis for them down to this day.

For some untold eons prior to the evolution of these cyanobacteria, during the Archean eon, more primitive microbes lived the real old-fashioned way: anaerobically. These ancient organisms—and their "extremophile" descendants today—thrived in the absence of oxygen, relying on sulfate for their energy needs.


The Origin of Oxygen in Earth & Atmosphere: Scientific American

Introduction to the Cyanobacteria


Architects of earth's atmosphere

Cyanobacteria are aquatic and photosynthetic, that is, they live in the water, and can manufacture their own food. Because they are bacteria, they are quite small and usually unicellular, though they often grow in colonies large enough to see. They have the distinction of being the oldest known fossils, more than 3.5 billion years old, in fact! It may surprise you then to know that the cyanobacteria are still around; they are one of the largest and most important groups of bacteria on earth.

Introduction to the Cyanobacteria


Early 'see-sawing' Earth experienced hazy shades of life

" Earth's early atmosphere fluctuated between 'organic haze' and a 'haze-free' environment similar to that of Saturn's moon, Titan, a new study has revealed.
And this switch over 2.5 billion years ago was the result of intense microbial activity and would have had a profound effect on the climate of the Earth system.

Research, led by experts at Newcastle University, UK, revealed that the Earth's early atmosphere periodically flipped from a hydrocarbon-free state into a hydrocarbon-rich state."


Can you breath Methane, or primarily natural gas?

Your breathing Oxygen right now because the bacteria called cynobacteria evolved photosynthesis and changed the earth atmosphere. Our atmophere today is a direct result of evolution.
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
"Only barbarians are not curious about where they come from, how they came to be where they are, where they appear to to be going, whether they wish to go there and if so, why and if not, why not..."
Isaiah berlin
 
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