Evolution vs Alchemy

[idav]

What do you feel would most likely be the origin of humans? Evolution with gradual change or alchemy with spontaneous change turning dead dirt into a living human being?

I am sure there are several explanations but I am asking more about the process in terms of baby steps or huge leaps and bounds. Aside from evolution, it makes most sense that it all came about in little steps without making it I look like magic. If it needs to be some sort of magical alchemy then logic is taking the back burner.

How about spontaneous generation? Do creationists still hold onto that theory, that life just spontaneously grows. It seems like they used to misinterpret mold growth for evidence of creationism. Now we know can see all of it is in gradual steps. From one element to what we see today.

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't understand what you mean by spontaneous generation.

In nature any thing has been free from the very first. For 4 billions years.
evolution is the probable answer of what we have today.
I always say that evolution is the evidence of God's existence, because genetic mutations are the result of the will of attaining perfection.
That's why evolution is the struggle for perfection.

 

[RichardParker]

I don't understand what you mean by spontaneous generation.

In nature any thing has been free from the very first. For 4 billions years.
evolution is the probable answer of what we have today.
I always say that evolution is the evidence of God's existence, because genetic mutations are the result of the will of attaining perfection.
That's why evolution is the struggle for perfection.

"Perfection" measured on what?

 

[Estro Felino]

"Perfection" measured on what?

I can give you an example: giraffes have a very long neck, so they can reach the high branches.

well...even as for beauty. I think that most animals of our era are much prettier than dinosaurs, actually. so...

 

[Ultimatum]

I can give you an example: giraffes have a very long neck, so they can reach the high branches.

well...even as for beauty. I think that most animals of our era are much prettier than dinosaurs, actually. so...

Actually in places other than South Africa, Giraffes tend not to bother browsing high up in trees for food.
Nowadays, their long necks may actually help with reproduction

Source: New Scientist
Also, using that as an example of perfection is not very good indeed as a long neck makes a giraffe an easier target for predators, it means their balance isn't as great as other animals, and it makes them slower whilst running..
So yeah.. no.

I think that most animals of our era are much prettier than dinosaurs,

Personal opinion..
"Perfection" has certainly not been reached (even though we've been around for a long time) because you can't attain perfection. The best you can get is the best configuration for the place in which you inhabit.
For example: You may be able to survive in a cold climate with a permanent fluffy coat, but you would roast alive in a hot environment.

 

[RichardParker]

I can give you an example: giraffes have a very long neck, so they can reach the high branches.

well...even as for beauty. I think that most animals of our era are much prettier than dinosaurs, actually. so...

I didn't ask for an example, because as pointed out, your example really depends on the circumstances, where the long neck can f.e. become an advantage or a disadvantage.
I'm asking for a standard by which to measure the "perfection" of a thing?

 

[Estro Felino]

I didn't ask for an example, because as pointed out, your example really depends on the circumstances, where the long neck can f.e. become an advantage or a disadvantage.
I'm asking for a standard by which to measure the "perfection" of a thing?

well..it is hard to explain what I mean by perfection.
But I guess that humans are more perfect than other apes, given that humans can talk, write and read.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

well..it is hard to explain what I mean by perfection.
But I guess that humans are more perfect than apes, given that humans can talk, write and read.

I must disagree. First, humans are apes, so you evidently mean either gorillas or chimps or one of the other apes. Secondly, I'll put a chimp up against a human anyday when it comes to making a living in the congo. No contest a chimp is superior in everyway when it comes to surviving, prospering, and reproducing in its environment.

 

[Estro Felino]

I must disagree. First, humans are apes, so you evidently mean either gorillas or chimps or one of the other apes. Secondly, I'll put a chimp up against a human anyday when it comes to making a living in the congo. No contest a chimp is superior in everyway when it comes to surviving, prospering, and reproducing in its environment.

well...but if you don't understand what I mean when I say that humans are more perfect than the other animals, I don't know what to say.
with all due respect

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

well...but if you don't understand what I mean when I say that humans are more perfect than the other animals, I have to conclude it's like talking to a brick wall.
with all due respect

LOL, I must assume that being human you assume humans must be more perfect than other animals lol.

Of course, no mere animal could be as perfect as you! And anyone that doesnot find that fact to be self-evident must be a brick wall. LOL.

How can you be more perfect than a snake? There is nothing better than a snake when it comes to swallowing rats whole.

How can you be more perfect than a giraffe? There is nothing better than a giraffe at eating the highest leaves.

Might I suggest that if you are going to use terms such as 'perfect' and expect that anyone who does not know what 'you' mean by the terms you use are brick walls, that you put just a tiny bit of effort into saying what you mean by the term.

Just saying!

 

[viole]

I don't understand what you mean by spontaneous generation.

In nature any thing has been free from the very first. For 4 billions years.
evolution is the probable answer of what we have today.
I always say that evolution is the evidence of God's existence, because genetic mutations are the result of the will of attaining perfection.
That's why evolution is the struggle for perfection.

It isn't.

Evolution is the struggle for being good enough.

Ciao

- viole

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

It isn't.

Evolution is the struggle for being good enough.

Ciao

- viole

Evolution is like running from the zombies. You don't have to be the fastest, just faster than the next guy.

 

[Estro Felino]

How can you be more perfect than a snake? There is nothing better than a snake when it comes to swallowing rats whole.
!

First of all...I apologize...I didn't mean to say u are a brick wall.
Secondly, let's analyze what perfect means. It comes from Latin perfectus, past participle of perficio, (to complete). So therefore it means complete.
Given that evolution will never stop, perfection doesn't exist...because nothing will be completed, in the evolutionary process.
But I used the expression "more perfect thing" than something else.
We are more perfect ( more complete) than snakes, because we have arms and legs, whereas snakes don't. that's what I meant

 

[idav]

I don't understand what you mean by spontaneous generation.

In nature any thing has been free from the very first. For 4 billions years.
evolution is the probable answer of what we have today.
I always say that evolution is the evidence of God's existence, because genetic mutations are the result of the will of attaining perfection.
That's why evolution is the struggle for perfection.

It isnt quite a will to perfection because evolution doesnt appear to take preference. Also perfection has to do with the organism in certain environments. So a set of wings or gills would always be perfect, given the right environment like air vs water.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

First of all...I apologize...I didn't mean to say are a brick wall.
Secondly, let's analyze what perfect means. It comes from Latin perfectus, past participle of perficio, (to complete). So therefore it means complete.
Given that evolution will never stop, perfection doesn't exist...because nothing will be completed, in the evolutionary process.
But I used the expression "more perfect thing" than something else.
We are more perfect ( more complete) than snakes, because we have arms and legs, whereas snakes don't. that's what I meant

And yet a snake has been evolving and is just as evolved as you or I. We have arms and legs, a snake can smell with its tongue. we can hear sound waves through the air, a snake can hear the ground and what's underneath it.

Your analysis of perfect is acceptable, though I prefer that which cannot be improved upon. But a snake is as complete as you or I, and is as evolved as you or I. We share a common ancestor with snakes, and since that ancestor lived both their line and ours has been evolving at the same rate, just for different things. So unless you wish to add 'humanlike' to your definition of perfect, the snake is just as perfect as we are.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

First of all...I apologize...I didn't mean to say are a brick wall.

Accepted. Thank you!

 

[Looncall]

First of all...I apologize...I didn't mean to say u are a brick wall.
Secondly, let's analyze what perfect means. It comes from Latin perfectus, past participle of perficio, (to complete). So therefore it means complete.
Given that evolution will never stop, perfection doesn't exist...because nothing will be completed, in the evolutionary process.
But I used the expression "more perfect thing" than something else.
We are more perfect ( more complete) than snakes, because we have arms and legs, whereas snakes don't. that's what I meant

What do you mean by complete?

Snakes don't need limbs. They do fine as they are.

You seem to have some sort of ideal template in mind. Evolution doesn't work that way. If an organism can survive and reproduce, it does so, otherwise it doesn't. That's really all there is to it.

 

[idav]

I don't understand what you mean by spontaneous generation.

Back in days when we tend to be more superstitious and perhaps more gullible, when people saw mold grow on mold or maggots coming out of meat, they chalked it up to spontaneous generation. Soon science started finding reasons for the mold and maggots and so the idea was mostly dropped but it sounds like that's exactly what creationists adhere to, life magically appearing via spontaneous generation. Slow progressions seem much more likely than magical leaps.

The ancient beliefs were subjected to testing. In 1668, Francesco Redi challenged the idea that maggots arose spontaneously from rotting meat. In the first major experiment to challenge spontaneous generation, he placed meat in a variety of sealed, open, and partially covered containers.[26] Realizing that the sealed containers were deprived of air, he used "fine Naples veil", and observed no worm on the meat, but they appeared on the cloth.[27]
Spontaneous generation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Alceste]

To answer the OP, I'm thinking ordinary chemistry, not alchemy.

 

[George-ananda]

What do you feel would most likely be the origin of humans?

Gradual evolution fostered by nature spirits whose intelligence is different from ours (but not omni-everything either). Evolution from inorganic matter through only the forces accepted by modern science seems highly unlikely to me. How many different incredible processes go on to make us from matter.