Evolution vs Intelligent design/creationism

[Subduction Zone]

So we can't form a conclusion on a round earth because non-believers aren't convinced. I go a step further and consider the quality of the non-believers arguments. I believe psi abilities have been statistically proved for example despite non-believers. And I believe the earth is round despite non-believers.

Looking at how many inconsistent stories are out there and saying "Wow!! That's a lot!" is not a statistical analysis.

The paranormal IS part of science that can be studied in the future.

That is mere unsupported opinion and wishful thinking. In my youth I was a fan of Robert Heinlein and many of his stories used various psi powers. I thought that was pretty cool too, but I don't think I ever went past wishful thinking that it would be nice if it was true. There have been these sorts of claims for generations, yet no one has managed to make the paranormal a part of science yet.

 

[Polymath257]

So we can't form a conclusion on a round earth because non-believers aren't convinced. I go a step further and consider the quality of the non-believers arguments. I believe psi abilities have been statistically proved for example despite non-believers. And I believe the earth is round despite non-believers.

And the general consensus is that the statistics do NOT favor a paranormal explanation, when properly done/ Now, there are a LOT of improperly done statistics in this filed, which is a big part of the problem. Selecting outliers is a huge issue.

The paranormal IS part of science that can be studied in the future.

Well, that is a possibility. But that clearly isn't the case now.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Yeah? How about that OJ trial? George Zimmerman?

You'd rather follow N Korea, USSR, NAZI Germany, and abolish citizen juries?

 

[Sapiens]

If I were innocent and accused of a crime I'd much rather be judged by a panel of experts than a panel of fools. Now ... were I guilty, I'd prefer the fools.

 

[sayak83]

You'd rather follow N Korea, USSR, NAZI Germany, and abolish citizen juries?

India does not have citizen juries. It's a ridiculous system in my opinion.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You'd rather follow N Korea, USSR, NAZI Germany, and abolish citizen juries?

When did I say North Korea, the USSR and NAZI Germany are examples to be followed??

 

[SkepticThinker]

If I were innocent and accused of a crime I'd much rather be judged by a panel of experts than a panel of fools. Now ... were I guilty, I'd prefer the fools.

This ^^^

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Sure, and the reason I believe in my case is evidence and not faith. I have seen and heard from others 10 times enough to make me a believer in the paranormal based on evidence.

I haven't seen the evidence and if things like OBE are so true, there should be a solid body of evidence supporting that truth. If clairvoyance is true, then every person should have the benefit of that, but I've seen no evidence of it. I can't tell the difference between what people call clairvoyance and what could be highly tuned senses and processing of standard sensory input. At the very least, someone should be able to demonstrate that my hypothesis is wrong and it is paranormal and not the result of sensory athletes.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

yes there is a reason that the vast majority of countries with any tradition of fair trials, use citizen juries instead of a panel of 'experts' (government appointed lawyers) to pass judgement on important cases

When determining truth, an unbiased layperson beats a biased expert any day- and the history of science has borne this out also

The reality is that most people are biased. Layman don't tend to recognize that. However, there are other issues at stake in having a government appointed expert to make decisions that involve more than personal bias.

I would accept the medical advice of a trained professional before I would accept a thousand different answers from unbiased laymen.

The history of science has been lead by experts in their respective fields. Lots of them. Even those that weren't classically trained in traditional university settings were experts.

 

[George-ananda]

In my comment about having ten times over enough evidence for belief in the paranormal I was referring to my paranormal experiences and thousands and thousands of other people's. Are some just natural phenomena in the end, yes. But every single one (and I know some strong cases); I feel not a reasonable chance.

I haven't seen the evidence and if things like OBE are so true, there should be a solid body of evidence supporting that truth. If clairvoyance is true, then every person should have the benefit of that, but I've seen no evidence of it. I can't tell the difference between what people call clairvoyance and what could be highly tuned senses and processing of standard sensory input. At the very least, someone should be able to demonstrate that my hypothesis is wrong and it is paranormal and not the result of sensory athletes.

OK, I believe psychic abilities are weak but real human abilities. Experiments designed to show this remove any possibility of sensual clues (double-blind; or else the experiments would be worthless). What we see in the Ganzfeld and Remote Viewing experiments is an overall deviation from chance that may not be all that large but such that the odds against chance becomes phenomenal. Hence the conclusion that humans in general have weak (but some) psychic abilities without the aid of sensual clueing.