Evolution without intelligence?

[McBell]

It does not have to be perfect but as long as it is balanced by random actions you win.

Naturally occurring balancing boulders are pretty common.

This one and many many others are common in Zimbabwe.

One from Spain

wa:do

looks like painted wolf won...

 

[painted wolf]

looks like painted wolf won...

yeah, but who's counting...

On a more serious note though, I don't think people give "random" enough credit. We tend to think of it as totally chaotic and inconsistent, when in reality it isn't. Even "random" events are following basic rules like physics and chemistry.

So while it may be "totally random" which electron is thrown off when an atom decays it's not "random" that the atom decays and throws off electrons.

wa:do

 

[crocusj]

It would also help to note....the item evolving need not be intelligent.

With intelligence installed the item at hand can make decisions that increase the effect.

With no ability to make a decision, the evolution is still there....
but the life form is caught in the moment.
Such as seeds of plant life.

And? Are you saying that we are seeds with intelligence? That's it? Organic life with a bit more than an acorn? Don't get me wrong, I think this is what we are but I expect more from a theist. Where is the magic and why does the acorn not have it? A dog is more intelligent than an acorn yet it does not claim an afterlife or a deity, or am I misrepresenting dogs here? Because, if that is what you are saying, then the god has created and the humans are no different than the other organic lifeforms and, as such, can and should stand before this god and say; "this is what you made me, how dare you judge me? Are your laws different for the acorn than for me?" Because if the laws are different (which I assume you believe them to be) then he should have said so in a manner that we could all encompass. I am as one with the acorn in a floaty, esoteric kind of way. Exactly how am I different and - more importantly - why am I different?

 

[Thief]

And? Are you saying that we are seeds with intelligence? That's it? Organic life with a bit more than an acorn? Don't get me wrong, I think this is what we are but I expect more from a theist. Where is the magic and why does the acorn not have it? A dog is more intelligent than an acorn yet it does not claim an afterlife or a deity, or am I misrepresenting dogs here? Because, if that is what you are saying, then the god has created and the humans are no different than the other organic lifeforms and, as such, can and should stand before this god and say; "this is what you made me, how dare you judge me? Are your laws different for the acorn than for me?" Because if the laws are different (which I assume you believe them to be) then he should have said so in a manner that we could all encompass. I am as one with the acorn in a floaty, esoteric kind of way. Exactly how am I different and - more importantly - why am I different?

And the parable of the Sower of Seed now bears consideration.
But you can do that whenever.

I do consider the lesser forms ....
I do wonder if they have what it takes to 'crossover'.
and sadly I don't think they do.

That is why the Garden event took place.
Man as a species on Day Six, would be hope of spirit.
But apparently not.
Man was behaving too much like an animal.

So...an alteration was made....manipulation applied.
A chosen specimen, ideal living conditions, cloning.....
And then the specimen was released into the environment.

We are so much more...self aware.
And this could be what it takes to 'crossover'.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Cool, intelligent rocks!

The book of Romans says that everything created knows it's creator which allows for some level of awareness, even for a rock.

 

[siweLSC]

The book of Romans says that everything created knows it's creator which allows for some level of awareness, even for a rock.

The book of Romans actually says: For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. (Romans 1 20, NIV)

So not everything created . . . . since the creation of the world. There is a difference.

 

[johnhanks]

The book of Romans says...

The book of Romans actually says...

The book of Romans is a letter written by a 1st century preacher to some of his co-religionists, aiming to bring their superstitions into line with his. It is little short of astonishing that intelligent adults 2000 years later are treating its speculations as statements of authoritative truth.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

The book of Romans is a letter written by a 1st century preacher to some of his co-religionists, aiming to bring their superstitions into line with his. It is little short of astonishing that intelligent adults 2000 years later are treating its speculations as statements of authoritative truth.

 

[siweLSC]

The book of Romans is a letter written by a 1st century preacher to some of his co-religionists, aiming to bring their superstitions into line with his. It is little short of astonishing that intelligent adults 2000 years later are treating its speculations as statements of authoritative truth.

Spot on! What is even more amazing is that a new religion based on someone who got crucified could succeed, flourish, and overrun the world in the face of such heavy persecution.

The Impossible Faith

In fact, it is so astonishing, that it must have the power of God behind it . . . . otherwise it probably would have been rubbed out long ago.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Not at all, it had the power of the Roman Empire's government behind it.

If a faith's duration gives it the power of deity behind it, Christianity has lasted the shortest, you'd be shut out by a variety of Asian faiths

 

[johnhanks]

Spot on! What is even more amazing is that a new religion based on someone who got crucified could succeed, flourish, and overrun the world...

Overrun? Most people in the world aren't Christian. Add in all the people who lived and died before the alleged crucifixion and the non-Christian majority becomes overwhelming.

In fact, it is so astonishing, that it must have the power of God behind it . . .

More accurately, it owes its spread to Constantine's victory at Milvian Bridge.

 

[siweLSC]

Overrun? Most people in the world aren't Christian. Add in all the people who lived and died before the alleged crucifixion and the non-Christian majority becomes overwhelming.
More accurately, it owes its spread to Constantine's victory at Milvian Bridge.

maybe not nowadays, but nearly the whole (known) world used to be christian, in name at least.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

They still never outnumbered the pagan dead. It's irrelevant though; the spread was still political, not truth-based.

Christian authors just want to stick to hyperbole, mistakenly crediting their faith with primacy. It came first, it invented everything, it's the biggest, the most popular, the only one ever that blah blah blah. Facts be damned. All falsehoods to give believers trophies handed out in 'no child left behind'-esqe manner. We're so special!!1!

 

[Thief]

They still never outnumbered the pagan dead. It's irrelevant though; the spread was still political, not truth-based.

Christian authors just want to stick to hyperbole, mistakenly crediting their faith with primacy. It came first, it invented everything, it's the biggest, the most popular, the only one ever that blah blah blah. Facts be damned. All falsehoods to give believers trophies handed out in 'no child left behind'-esqe manner. We're so special!!1!

Sounds like you take this personally.

Are we moving this discussion to word play less than intelligent?
That would make the title... a paradox.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Sounds like you take this personally.

Explaining mistakes isn't me getting angry.

I guess that makes the sting a little less, if you want to think that.

And given that your entire posting history is a constant repetition verbatum of the exact same single post, please, don't presume to comment on my content.

 

[Thief]

Explaining mistakes isn't me getting angry.

I guess that makes the sting a little less, if you want to think that.

So we agree...you're moving toward wordplay?

 

[Heathen Hammer]

I doubt I've ever agreed with you about anything, Thief.

 

[Old Scratch]

Everyone has heard of the watch analogy.
I purpose a simpler one. My one year old son can stack 3 square blocks using his basic intelligence. Can someone explain how random actions without intelligence guiding them can assemble 3 blocks in a stack. It does not have to be perfect but as long as it is balanced by random actions you win.
The building blocks of life are much more complicated to stack and improper stacking would end life.
Looking forward to an answer. Thanks.

Foolish human!! No...wait....unfair to mere fools this is. Unthinking human! Disgusted with your lack of progress I am! Such large & capable brains
you low creatures have been undeservedly given. Why you do not use them a mystery to Your Dark Lord is. About that planetary sepsis you call "life"
...irrelevant it is that complicated the components are. He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named (HWSNBN) & I your realm created, with physical properties
such that all you see occurring to inevitably happen would. No interference, guiding, assistance needed was there! A simple stochastic process
HWSNBN for you devised....abiogenetic ancestors, mutation, selection, reproduction (disgusting!) and eons of time upon time for it all to unfold.
Eyes to feed your ample gray matter you've been given! Open them I command! Even some of your fellow 2-legged insects now glimpse the useful
& glorious tool which you as "evolution" dismiss. So time it is, for the rest of you despicable selfish simpletons to out of the muck climb!

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Whoa, who let Yog-Sothoth in on this?

 

[Revoltingest]

Whoa, who let Yog-Sothoth in on this?

Who could stop him?