Ex Christians

[Vadergirl123]

Which means that the poor judgement of the biblical god caused a lot of 100% unfair murders of girls.

That is completely your opinion(as you can't prove they were), and I doubt there were any girls killed unfairly.(I also can't prove that btw)

 

[Vadergirl123]

Again - why do you understand that this is immoral for a person to do to another person... but think it's ok for God to do to someone?

God didn't "force" Adam into a relationship and he doesn't force people today. If he did we'd all be in a relationship with him. He also didn't threaten Adam with eternal torture if Adam didn't want to be in the relationship. Our relationship with God isn't one sided. If itw as God would get his way all eth time, which just isn't the case in reality.
As to why it's okay for God to create laws and punishments. It's becasue he's nothing like us, and so superior to human beings.

BTW - God created sin. It's his doing that sin exists at all.

God didn't create sin, he created Adam, who was perfect, and then Adam chose to sin(go against God). You can't blame God for sinning, as he doesn't force you to. It's your choice.

 

[Vadergirl123]

when it concerns how one is to determine if a girl is a virgin....yes.

Why? Because you need to see it in the Bible to believe it?

and why wouldn't god make sure there was no room for error?

Because he knew we'd know about other ways,a nd it wouldn't need to be specifically mentioned.(that's just a guess, I can't know for sure why God didn't mention is specifically)

how do you know she chose to do wrong? because a fallible test god thought was perfectly acceptable didn't prove her innocence?

You don't know the test was fallible since you can't know for sure if any girls were unjustly killed.

 

[Falvlun]

As to why it's okay for God to create laws and punishments. It's becasue he's nothing like us, and so superior to human beings.

Might does not make right.

Just because god has the capability to make laws and punishments does not mean that the laws and punishments are fair, just, or reasonable. Nor does it give him the right to make unjust and unfair laws and punishments.

 

[Vadergirl123]

they determined her to not be a virgin based on the lack of evidence of blood

No, it was based on the lack of proof(at leats that's what the Bible says) it doesn't specifically say she was killed based on the fact that she didn't bleed.

 

[Falvlun]

No, it was based on the lack of proof(at leats that's what the Bible says) it doesn't specifically say she was killed based on the fact that she didn't bleed.

How do you prove you're a virgin, vadergirl? Also, why does the accuser need no proof, when such stakes are on the line? All he needs to do is accuse, and this poor girl will be subject to an inquiry that, if she cannot clear her name, will result in her death. Guess God didn't really think that one through, huh?

 

[Vadergirl123]

and why even attempt to?

Because I like knowing as much as I can about who I'm in a relationship with. Eevn though I know I can't know everything.[/quote]

thats it? you have no rebuttal, you can't explain to me why you disagree?
interesting.

Yes haha and I've already explained why I disagree.

 

[Vadergirl123]

Not if you are colorblind

Well if I am colorblind that'd be even worse if I was positive it was yellow. That would mean I'm beleiving something about the car, when I know I flawed ides(vision) about it. If I was colorblind(and knew I was) and was saying the car was yellow that'd make me pretty stupid.

 

[Vadergirl123]

yet the guy doesn't have to prove his virginity
man oh man...you are an interesting person.

So what? I really don't see an issue with that. It's not like he doesn't get punished if he's wrong.

if we are talking about god i would expect a fool proof method of determining if a girl was a virgin or not, regardless of how absolutely ridiculous the idea is.

You can't know what the method was completely like. We weren't there remember. I'm sure it was very fool proof, and no girl was killed that was innocent.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

So I've read a couple of posts about people claiming to be "ex christians" and I'm curious as to what they mean exactly. If you are an ex-christain were you in a relationship with Jesus Christ and decided you wanted the relationship to end? Was it that the belief of christiantity stopped making sense or something else entirely? Please let me know.

I was raised a catholic went to catechism. At the age of 11 I went to an evangelical church and I got "saved". I had a very powerful experience (wont go into it now). I had a very hard life as a child. I was always sick. It was my relationship with Christ that helped me with living. Grow up and went to Bible College. To make a long story short. I found out that in general the evangelical Theologians were very disingenuous and made many straw man arguments against "liberal Theologians". I reproached the Bible and I could no longer believe what I was taught. It was all lies. This even made me doubt my relationship with Christ. I quit the Church and became an existential agnostic. Went to school worked in a state Mental Hospital. Became more and more depressed about the human condition. Began reading about all the worlds religions. Found a type of Hinduism that fit me. Found a Swami who could answer all my questions about Christ, God and life. (The teachers in Bible collage could not) Converted to Hinduism. This is the story in a nut shell.

 

[Falvlun]

So what? I really don't see an issue with that. It's not like he doesn't get punished if he's wrong.

The question wasn't what happens to him if he is wrong. The question was "Why is the virginity of males a non-issue?"

By the way, what does happen to a guy if he was wrong? Does he get stoned to death? I mean, the stakes should be equal, don't you think?

You can't know what the method was completely like. We weren't there remember. I'm sure it was very fool proof, and no girl was killed that was innocent.

Oh come on! In our current civilization, innocent people are executed and that's with current investigative skills, etc. People make mistakes all the time. It is quite naiive to believe that somehow the Israelites were immune to such mistakes.

But all this is really besides the point. Do you really think that being stoned to death is an appropriate punishment for having sex before you are married?

 

[Vadergirl123]

and murdering a girl for not being a virgin doesn't pose a problem to you, really?

I don't think it's wrong for God to have a girl killed for breaking the law(when she knows is the punishment). Obviously sex was worth the risk to her.
Now it does sound very harsh to me, but I live in a different time period, and just because something's harsh doesn't mean it's wrong.

well god is thinking for you, you just said this:

What??? That doesn't mean God's thinking for me. God doesn't decide what I wear, eat, say, do,live.

with the understanding that no once can understand god...
and you are ok with god ordaining stoning a girl to death only because she isn't a virgin...

Uh uh..I said no one can "understand him completely" I would've followed that law had I been an Israelite yes.

 

[Vadergirl123]

I must of missed the verse you guys are talking about. Can someone please point me to which one it is?

Deuteronomy 22

 

[Falvlun]

Let's just say that I am very glad that my morality-- and that of the majority of people-- actually does not come from the Bible.

 

[Astravalon]

i don't think there is anything that should not be discussed. in fact anything that is taboo should be questioned as to why it is taboo. if we keep to ourselves then we, those who remain silent, are contributing to the problem of keeping things taboo.

This is true too.

When I mentioned avoiding the discussion of it, I was
thinking of a couple instances in the past, where I brought
some grief upon my own head due to mentioning activities
that met with the disapproval of others. In one instance, a
vegetarian disapproved of my eating meat, and in other
instance, a teetotaller objected to my drinking wine. Both
who objected to my consumption of meat and wine did so
based on their religious beliefs, and were unreceptive to my
views in spite of me using their own religion's teachings to
explain why those activities might not be as wrong as they
believed. It got a little messy. Fortunately, both incidents
took place online, so no one was harmed in the making of
those controversies, lol!

I agree that enabling what has been referred to in extreme
cases as "weaker brother syndrome" doesn't help the weaker
become stronger. It seems that a strong faith would be able
to thrive in just about any environment, unfazed by
whatever it is one has decided is taboo. So it's good to
discuss those things. But personally, if I reach the point
where I feel like I'm being ground to pieces over something,
that's when I decide to back off and just keep it to myself,
at least with that particular party. If I spend too much of my
freedom defending it against its critics, I'll never have a
chance to just enjoy it, lol!


-

 

[Alceste]

No I don't think so, does it have to be mentioned?


Maybe it didn't mention the hymen because the cloth was the most common token of proof.

I don't live in that time period nor am I an Israelite, so of course I wouldn't stone a girl in today's day and age. I'd have no right to do that.
As I've said earlier if I did live in that time period and was an Israelite then yes I'd go with what God's law said. However y'all are treating this girl like some victim because a guy asked for proof of her virginity. She was punished because SHE CHOSE to do wrong. She's not an innocent bystander. Also I would feel terrible for the girl, just like today I feel terrible for people who are punished. I mean I understand why they're being punished but I still feel bad for them.

Again with the wilful misunderstanding. She is being murdered because she could not prove she didn't do wrong.

From wikipedia:

"A virginity test is the practice and process of determining whether a female is a virgin, ie., whether she has never engaged in sexual intercourse. The test involves an inspection of a female's hymen, on the assumption that her hymen can only be torn as a result of sexual intercourse.
Virginity testing is a very controversial practice, both because of its implications for tested girls and because it is not accurate."

If you want to believe that God ordered the death penalty be dealt out via an inaccurate process of determining guilt or innocence, go ahead, but don't pretend to be moral.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

If you want to believe that God ordered the death penalty be dealt out via an inaccurate process of determining guilt or innocence, go ahead, but don't pretend to be moral.

I Bible college I was told at Jewish weddings at the time of Christ. The bride was taken into a tent. With all the party guests standing outside the tent cheering. The marriage was consummated and the man brought out the sheet with blood on it to a happy crowd.

Now thats a party !

 

[Rakhel]

Deuteronomy 22

Deuteronomy 22. One of the laws pertaining ti virginity? oy vey.
Can anyone actually say whether anyone had actually been stoned for not being a virgin? Can anyone actually say that anyone had ever been stoned based on Torah laws?

Further, do you guys even know what it takes to convict someone of the crime you are accusing this hypothetical girl of?

 

[waitasec]

Why? Because you need to see it in the Bible to believe it?

no because you say the the bible tells us what gods will is, don't you?
therefore, in order for you to prove that it is gods will that a girl is to be justifiably murdered for not being a virgin, then the method of which god ordains to prove her virginity has to be fool proof...undeniable empirical proof that she is not a virgin..., since we are talking about a persons life here... the lack of evidence of blood is not that method.

Because he knew we'd know about other ways,a nd it wouldn't need to be specifically mentioned.(that's just a guess, I can't know for sure why God didn't mention is specifically)

are you speculating. in fact, what you are saying here is that he failed incorporate the "other method" as a back up to make sure the lack of blood wasn't the only method to determine she wasn't a virgin, since we are talking about a persons life here.

You don't know the test was fallible since you can't know for sure if any girls were unjustly killed.

the method specified in the bible is fallible. period.

 

[waitasec]

Deuteronomy 22. One of the laws pertaining ti virginity? oy vey.
Can anyone actually say whether anyone had actually been stoned for not being a virgin? Can anyone actually say that anyone had ever been stoned based on Torah laws?

Further, do you guys even know what it takes to convict someone of the crime you are accusing this hypothetical girl of?

i don't care if anyone was or wasn't. the fact of the matter is...the test ordained by god to prove a girls virginity was if she bled or not.

god should know more about the human anatomy, shouldn't he?