Exalted mormons are sufficient in themselves? What about the relation to God in the afterlife?

[Kristoffer]

When mormons die and become gods themselfs they can create theire own worlds, just like God did. Does it follow that mormons as gods also are "free" from being Gods "servants"? In another words: does the exalted mormons dont need God anymore (are they sufficient in themselves?)

What about the relation to God in the afterlife? What happens with that?

 

[Katzpur]

When mormons die and become gods themselfs they can create theire own worlds, just like God did. Does it follow that mormons as gods also are "free" from being Gods "servants"? In another words: does the exalted mormons dont need God anymore (are they sufficient in themselves?)

What about the relation to God in the afterlife? What happens with that?

It appears that you have greatly misunderstood this doctrine. For starters, no Mormon I have ever known believes that we will die and then become a god. Also, we don't believe that this promise of exaltation applies only to people who lived their lives as Mormons. I wrote a reply to a similar question a number of years ago. Here's what I said in that post:

This question concerns what the Latter-day Saints call the doctrine of Eternal Progression, which is exactly what the name implies -- the belief that God has made it possible for His sons and daughters to continue to learn and progress quite literally forever.

Before we get down to the nitty-gritty, let's let's clear up two big, big misconceptions:

(1) We do not believe that any of us will ever be equal to God, our Eternal Father in Heaven. He will always be our God and we will always worship Him.
(2) Nothing we could possibly do on our own could exalt us to the level of deity. It is only through the will and grace of God that man is given this potential.

We believe, as you may know, that ours is the re-established Church Jesus Christ established during His ministry here on earth. It would follow, then, that we believe we are teaching the same doctrines as were taught then and accepted by Jesus’ followers. Throughout the New Testament, there are indications that this doctrine (known as deification or exaltation) is not one the Latter-day Saints invented, but that the earliest Christians understood and believed it, as well.

Romans 8:16-17, 2 Peter 1:4, Revelation 2:26-27 and Revelation 3:21 are the four I like best. Through these verses, we learn that, as children of God, we may also be His heirs, joint-heirs with Christ, even glorified with Him. We might partake of the nature of divinity and be allowed to sit with our Savior on His throne, to rule over the nations.

Now, if these promises are true, what do they all boil down to? To the Latter-day Saints, they mean that we have the potential to someday, be “godlike.” One of our prophets explained that "we are gods in embryo." If our Father is divine and we are literally his "offspring", as the Bible teaches we are, is it really such a stretch of the imagination to believe that he has endowed each of us with a spark of divinity?

There is considerable evidence that the doctrine of deification was taught for quite some time after the Savior’s death, and accepted as orthodox. Some of the most well-known and respected of the early Christian Fathers made statements that were remarkably close to the statements LDS leaders have made. For example:

In the second century, Saint Irenaeus said, “If the Word became a man, it was so men may become gods.” He also posed this question: “Do we cast blame on Him (God) because we were not made gods from the beginning, but were at first created merely as men, and than later as Gods?”

At about the same period of time, Saint Clement made this statement: “The Word of God became a man so that you might learn from a man how to become a god.”

And Saint Justin Martyr agreed, saying that men are “deemed worthy of becoming gods and of having power to become sons of the highest.”

Some two centuries later, Athanasius explained that “the Word was made flesh in order that we might be enabled to be made gods. He became man that we might be made divine.”

And, finally, Augustine, said, “But He that justifies also deifies, for by justifying he makes sons of God. For he has given them power to become the sons of God. If then we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods.”

Much more recently, the noted Christian theologian, C.S. Lewis, said much the same thing in his book "Mere Christianity." This particular quote is really worth paying attention to. It expresses the belief that mankind's potential is far greater than most of us realize and is almost to the letter how a Mormon would explain the doctrine:

“The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were “gods” and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him – for we can prevent Him, if we choose – He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said."

Finally, according to The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology, “Deification (Greek theosis) is for Orthodoxy the goal of every Christian. Man, according to the Bible, is made in the image and likeness of God…. It is possible for man to become like God, to become deified, to become god by grace.”

 

[Kristoffer]

This was a very good explaining! Thank you very much! Very cool with all the historical references you came with in form of big people! Again, thank you for you kindness ^^

Here comes some new questions:
Could you maybe have said a little more about which president that had the revelation about this doctrine, when it came, and how it is being practiced in the church today as a part of the everyday-life? Could you please tell me more about how mormons think the situation on the other side would be as an exalted being? How can you be exalted, and what kind of different exaltments is there? What is the biggest kind of exaltment?
And: did the president that had this revelation tell bout these things I here ask about?

 

[Katzpur]

This was a very good explaining! Thank you very much! Very cool with all the historical references you came with in form of big people! Again, thank you for you kindness ^^

Here comes some new questions:
Could you maybe have said a little more about which president that had the revelation about this doctrine, when it came, and how it is being practiced in the church today as a part of the everyday-life?

Revelations were given to a number of LDS prophets, beginning with Joseph Smith. I'm not sure exactly what you mean when you ask how this is being practiced in the church today as a part of everyday life. I believe I would be safe in saying that most of us are probably more focused on just trying to keep the Lord's commandments than we are on what exaltation is going to be like.

Could you please tell me more about how mormons think the situation on the other side would be as an exalted being? How can you be exalted, and what kind of different exaltments is there? What is the biggest kind of exaltment?

I always hesitate to just post a link since it seems like such a cop-out. But it's late right now and I'd like to post something for you before turning in for the night. Here is a link to Mormon Wiki's article on Eternal Progression. As you may or may not already know, we don't believe in a one-size-fits-all kind of Heaven, but in a Heaven comprised of varying "degrees of glory" or "kingdoms." The highest of these is the Celestial Kingdom. Within the Celestial Kingdom, there is a further division. Those who attain (through their faithfulness) the highest degree of exaltation, will be given the blessing of Eternal Progression. The linked article explains it quite well. After you've read the information provided there, please feel free to ask any further questions.

 

[Kristoffer]

Those who attain (through their faithfulness) the highest degree of exaltation, will be given the blessing of Eternal Progression.

But does this mean that only ew people get to keep evolve themselves on the other side? What about those on lower levels? And what happen to people in hell?

Nice link! ^^ Cool that its an own wiki!

How do mormons mostly think that the life in the three different stages would be like? Are there anyone who have written or said anything about this? Is there only the people in the celestial who can keep the eternal progression?

 

[Katzpur]

But does this mean that only ew people get to keep evolve themselves on the other side?

Only those who attain "exaltation" in the Celestial Kingdom are given the blessing of being able to progress eternally.

What about those on lower levels? And what happen to people in hell?

We actually don't believe in the traditional "Lake of Fire" concept of Hell, like most Christians. We believe that only a very, very few people who have ever lived will end up there. It's a place completely void of God's glory, completely removed from Him. It's called "Outer Darkness."

Nice link! ^^ Cool that its an own wiki!

Yes! MormonWiki is a great source of information.

How do mormons mostly think that the life in the three different stages would be like?

The Apostle Paul's discussion about the resurrection contains three verses which address this question (but in quite vague terms). 1 Corinthians 15: "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead."

Are there anyone who have written or said anything about this?

Here's another link to MormonWiki that should probably give you the answers you are looking for. Doctrine & Covenants:88 probably contains the most complete actual revelation on the subject.

 

[Kristoffer]

Thank you for good answer! This explains a lot - and very interesting reading! ^^

 

[Norman]

When mormons die and become gods themselfs they can create theire own worlds, just like God did. Does it follow that mormons as gods also are "free" from being Gods "servants"? In another words: does the exalted mormons dont need God anymore (are they sufficient in themselves?)

What about the relation to God in the afterlife? What happens with that?

Norman: Hi Kristoffer, God our Father is our Father, He created our spirits and no one will ever replace him. Here is some for information. Logically and naturally, the ultimate desire of a loving Supreme Being is to help his children enjoy all that he enjoys. For Latter-day Saints, the term "godhood" denotes the attainment of such a state-one of having all divine attributes and doing as God does and being as God is. Such a state is to be enjoyed by all exalted, embodied, intelligent The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that all resurrected and perfected mortals become gods (cf. Gen. 3:22; Matt. 5:48). They will dwell again with God the Father, and live and act like him in endless worlds of happiness, power, love, glory, and knowledge; above all, they will have the power of procreating endless lives. Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus Christ attained godhood (see Christology) and that he marked the path and led the way for others likewise to become exalted divine beings by following him (cf. John 14:3).

All of God's spirit children have within them a divine nature with the potential to become like him. To become more like God, individuals must gain increased light and truth and follow all the commandments that God has given. They must know God (John 17:3; D&C 88:49) and see him (1 Jn. 3:2). Those who achieve this level of perfection will become joint-heirs with Christ: "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God…. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together" (Rom. 8:14-17). "All that [the] Father hath" shall be given to them (D&C 84:37-38). In biblical terms, those who are worthy to share in all the power and glory that God himself has are called "gods": "Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High" (Ps. 82:6; John 10:34-38). Latter-day scriptures refer to several persons, including Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who once lived on earth and who are now resurrected beings and have become gods (D&C 132:37). Joseph Smith also wrote, "Every man who reigns in celestial glory is a God to his dominions" (TPJS, p. 374). This does not mean that any person ever would or could supplant God as the Supreme Being in the universe." You can read more at the URL listed below under source.

Source:

Godhood - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

 

[Norman]

This was a very good explaining! Thank you very much! Very cool with all the historical references you came with in form of big people! Again, thank you for you kindness ^^

Here comes some new questions:
Could you maybe have said a little more about which president that had the revelation about this doctrine, when it came, and how it is being practiced in the church today as a part of the everyday-life?

Norman: Hi Kristoffer, I think you are looking for this? Much of the LDS concept of godhood is expressed in a frequently cited aphorism written in 1840 by Lorenzo Snow, fifth President of the Church. At the time, Snow was twenty-six years old, having been baptized four years earlier. He recorded in his journal that he attended a meeting in which Elder H. G. Sherwood explained the parable of the Savior regarding the husbandman who hired servants and sent them forth at different hours of the day to labor for him in his vineyard. Snow continued, as recorded in his sister's biography of him: "The Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon me-the eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun at noonday, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man. I formed the following couplet which expresses the revelation, as it was shown me…. As man now is, God once was: As God now is, man may be" (Eliza R. Snow, p. 46).

Godhood - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

Could you please tell me more about how mormons think the situation on the other side would be as an exalted being? How can you be exalted, and what kind of different exaltments is there? What is the biggest kind of exaltment?

Norman: To Latter-day Saints, exaltation is a state that a person can attain in becoming like God-salvation in the ultimate sense (D&C 132:17). Latter-day Saints believe that all mankind (except the sons of perdition) will receive varying degrees of glory in the afterlife. Exaltation is the greatest of all the gifts and attainments possible. It is available only in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom and is reserved for members of the Church of the Firstborn. This exalted status, called eternal life, is available to be received by a man and wife. It means not only living in God's presence, but receiving power to do as God does, including the power to bear children after the resurrection (TPJS, pp. 300-301; D&C 132:19). Blessings and privileges of exaltation require unwavering faith, repentance, and complete obedience to the gospel of Jesus Christ. In a revelation to the Prophet Joseph Smith, the Savior stated the following conditions: "Strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me" (D&C 132:22).All Church ordinances lead to exaltation, and the essential crowning ordinances are the Endowment and the eternal marriage covenant of the temple (D&C 131:1-4, 132).

Exaltation - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism


And: did the president that had this revelation tell bout these things I here ask about?

Norman: At first Snow did not share his couplet with anyone besides his sister Eliza, and Brigham Young, with whom he served in England. But in January of1843, after returning from his mission, Snow mentioned it to the Prophet Joseph Smith, who said to him: “Brother Snow, that is true gospel doctrine, and it is a revelation from God to you.”6

In a public statements by current LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley. 2. Gordon B. Hinckley’s public expressions of agnosticism concerning Snow’s Couplet. both took place in 1997 and have since become well known to critics of the LDS Church. Richard Ostling in his TIME Magazine, PBS NewsHour with Jim Lehrer interview, asked President Hinckley whether “God the Father was once a man as we are.” Hinckley’s answer was: “I don’t know that we teach it . . . I haven’t heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse.”24

Again in an interview with Don Lattin appearing in the San Francisco Chronicle in April 1997, Lattin asked Hinckley: “[D]on’t Mormons believe that God was once a man?” Hinckley replied: “I wouldn’t say that. There was a little couplet coined, ‘As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.’ Now that’s more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don’t know very much about.”25

At General Conference, Hinckley talked about media depictions of the church and, in an apparently pointed reference to those interviews, assured his listeners, ‘None of you need worry because you read something that was incompletely reported. You need not worry that I do not understand some matters of doctrine.’ He added, ‘I think I understand them thoroughly.’ ”26

 

[Norman]

But does this mean that only ew people get to keep evolve themselves on the other side? What about those on lower levels? And what happen to people in hell?

Norman: At the Resurrection and Judgment, people will be assigned a degree of glory. Further progress is believed possible within each degree. Marriage and family life, however, continue only in the Celestial Kingdom, allowing "eternal increase" through having spirit children (see Eternal Lives, Eternal Increase). "All this and more that cannot enter into our hearts to conceive is promised to the faithful, and are but so many stages in that ceaseless progression of eternal lives" (Young, JD 10:5).
Eternal Progression - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

In regards to hell. Latter-day revelation speaks of hell in at least two senses. First, it is the temporary abode in the spirit world for those who were disobedient in mortality. In this sense, hell has an end. The spirits there will be taught the gospel, and sometime following their repentance they will be resurrected to a degree of glory of which they are worthy. Those who will not repent, but are nevertheless not sons of perdition, will remain in hell throughout the Millennium. After these thousand years of torment, they will be resurrected to a telestial glory (D&C 76:81–86; 88:100–101).

Second, it is the permanent location of those who are not redeemed by the atonement of Jesus Christ. In this sense, hell is permanent. It is for those who are found “filthy still” (D&C 88:35, 102). This is the place where Satan, his angels, and the sons of perdition—those who have denied the Son after the Father has revealed him—will dwell eternally (D&C 76:43–46). David’s soul shall not be left in hell:Ps. 16:10; ( Ps. 86:13; )
Hell

Nice link! ^^ Cool that its an own wiki!

How do mormons mostly think that the life in the three different stages would be like? Are there anyone who have written or said anything about this? Is there only the people in the celestial who can keep the eternal progression?

Norman: Please read all of this. It will answer your question. Doctrine & Covenants 76:50 And again we bear record—for we saw and heard, and this is the testimony of the gospel of Christ concerning them who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just—51 They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given—52 That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power; 53 And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true. 54 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn. 55 They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things—56 They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory; 57 And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son. 58 Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God—59 Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s. 60 And they shall overcome all things. 61 Wherefore, let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet. 62 These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever. 63 These are they whom he shall bring with him, when he shall come in the clouds of heaven to reign on the earth over his people. 64 These are they who shall have part in the first resurrection. 65 These are they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just. 66 These are they who are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly place, the holiest of all. 67 These are they who have come to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of Enoch, and of the Firstborn. 68 These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all. 69 These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood. 70 These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical. 71 And again, we saw the terrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the Firstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the moon differs from the sun in the firmament. 72 Behold, these are they who died without law; 73 And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh; 74 Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it. 75 These are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men. 76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness. 77 These are they who receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father. 78 Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun. 79 These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God. 80 And now this is the end of the vision which we saw of the terrestrial, that the Lord commanded us to write while we were yet in the Spirit. 81 And again, we saw the glory of the telestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the glory of the stars differs from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament. 82 These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus. 83 These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit. 84 These are they who are thrust down to hell. 85 These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work. 86 These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial; 87 And the terrestrial through the ministration of the celestial. 88 And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be ministering spirits for them; for they shall be heirs of salvation. 89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding; 90 And no man knows it except him to whom God has revealed it. 91 And thus we saw the glory of the terrestrial which excels in all things the glory of the telestial, even in glory, and in power, and in might, and in dominion. 92 And thus we saw the glory of the celestial, which excels in all things—where God, even the Father, reigns upon his throne forever and ever; 93 Before whose throne all things bow in humble reverence, and give him glory forever and ever. 94 They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace; 95 And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion. 96 And the glory of the celestial is one, even as the glory of the sun is one. 97 And the glory of the terrestrial is one, even as the glory of the moon is one.98 And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world; 99 For these are they who are of Paul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas. 100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of another—some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of Esaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch; 101 But received not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the everlasting covenant. 102 Last of all, these all are they who will not be gathered with the saints, to be caught up unto the church of the Firstborn, and received into the cloud. 103 These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie. 104 These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth. 105 These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire. 106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work; 107 When he shall deliver up the kingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have overcome and have trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God. 108 Then shall he be crowned with the crown of his glory, to sit on the throne of his power to reign forever and ever. 109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever; 111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared; 112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end. 113 This is the end of the vision which we saw, which we were commanded to write while we were yet in the Spirit. 114 But great and marvelous are the works of the Lord, and the mysteries of his kingdom which he showed unto us, which surpass all understanding in glory, and in might, and in dominion;

Doctrine and Covenants 76

 

[Kristoffer]

Than you Norman! You have really answered me a bunch! ^^ Really educating! Just to post more, if you think of something that would be nice for me to know! As i wrote: really educating!

 

[Norman]

Than you Norman! You have really answered me a bunch! ^^ Really educating! Just to post more, if you think of something that would be nice for me to know! As i wrote: really educating!

Norman: Hi Kristoffer, Thank you for the questions and your respect and kind spirit that you have. I will be happy to post other things for you. God Bless you my friend. You are awesome.

 

[Katzpur]

Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus Christ attained godhood (see Christology) and that he marked the path and led the way for others likewise to become exalted divine beings by following him (cf. John 14:3).

To me, this statement implies that Jesus Christ could not be considered divine until some point in His existence, whether at His conception, His baptism, His transfiguration or His resurrection. You may not have intended it to sound this way, but it does. As I'm sure you know, we believe that Jesus Christ was with His Father "in the beginning" and was fully divine at that time.

 

[Norman]

To me, this statement implies that Jesus Christ could not be considered divine until some point in His existence, whether at His conception, His baptism, His transfiguration or His resurrection. You may not have intended it to sound this way, but it does. As I'm sure you know, we believe that Jesus Christ was with His Father "in the beginning" and was fully divine at that time.

Norman: Hi Katzpur, sometimes you just jump to a conclusion that everything I post is from me. That came from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism as I stated my source as such, the statement did not come from me. However, I understand it just as it is stated, he attained godhood, I think it is just a matter of semantics. Here are a few more examples from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism. In the premortal life, Jesus Christ, whose main title was Jehovah, was the firstborn spirit child of God the Father and thus the eldest brother and preeminent above all other spirit children of God. In that first estate, he came to be more intelligent than all other spirits, one "like unto God" (Abr. 3:19, 24)

That verse in Abraham 3:19,24 One could ask what does one "like unto God" mean? Or, another person may understand that term just as it is stated. You can search for yourself and find many other examples, however, so far, I have not been able to find anywhere where it says that "Jesus was born a God in the pre-existence." So, whether "attained godhood" one "like unto God" or as Ezra Taft Benson put it, "The Savior's dual nature-man and God-enabled him to make an infinite Atonement, " In my opinion I don't believe these terms are deceptive in any way.

Source:

Jesus Christ - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

 

[Norman]

Hi Katzpur, upon searching some more I did find this. Would this be better wording for you?

Although the term "Christology" is not frequently used by Latter-day Saints, the doctrine of the Church can be described in the following manner: Jesus Christ descended from his high pre-existent station as a God when he came to earth to die for mankind's sins (see Jesus Christ: Firstborn in the Spirit; Condescension of God). He was Jehovah come to earth in a physical body as the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh (see Jesus Christ: Only Begotten in the Flesh). While on earth he was still God, but he received from his Father "grace for grace," as do God's other children (D&C 93:12; see Jesus Christ: Ministry of Jesus Christ). The Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants speak forcefully of the divine sonship of Christ and also of his humanity (Mosiah 15:2-3; Alma 6:8;11:38;13:16;34:2; 3 Ne. 11:7,28:10; D&C 93; see Jesus Christ, Fatherhood and Sonship of).

Christology - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

 

[Katzpur]

Norman: Hi Katzpur, sometimes you just jump to a conclusion that everything I post is from me.

Not touchy much, are you, Norman? Look, you were the first to pick a fight with me way back when you implied that I was in some sort of mutiny against the Church. Then, instead of issuing an apology, you just deleted the post. An apology would have meant more. We clearly have a few points of disagreement, but that doesn't have to mean I'm your enemy. If I ask for a clarification (which is pretty much what I did in this case), all you need do is give me one. You don't need to jump to a conclusion yourself that I'm out to discredit you.

That came from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism as I stated my source as such, the statement did not come from me. However, I understand it just as it is stated, he attained godhood, I think it is just a matter of semantics. Here are a few more examples from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism. In the premortal life, Jesus Christ, whose main title was Jehovah, was the firstborn spirit child of God the Father and thus the eldest brother and preeminent above all other spirit children of God. In that first estate, he came to be more intelligent than all other spirits, one "like unto God" (

Abr. 3:19, 24)

That verse in Abraham 3:19,24 One could ask what does one "like unto God" mean? Or, another person may understand that term just as it is stated. You can search for yourself and find many other examples, however, so far, I have not been able to find anywhere where it says that "Jesus was born a God in the pre-existence." So, whether "attained godhood" one "like unto God" or as Ezra Taft Benson put it, "The Savior's dual nature-man and God-enabled him to make an infinite Atonement, " In my opinion I don't believe these terms are deceptive in any way.

I don't think they are deceptive either, to someone like me who has a belief in the pre-existence. However, to most Christians, I believe that any implication that Jesus attained godhood would suggest that He became God at some point during His life. I know that this is something some Christians believe, and I wouldn't want anyone to think it's what I believe.

 

[Katzpur]

Not touchy much, are you, Norman? Look, you were the first to pick a fight with me way back when you implied that I was in some sort of mutiny against the Church. Then, instead of issuing an apology, you just deleted the post. An apology would have meant more. We clearly have a few points of disagreement, but that doesn't have to mean I'm your enemy. If I ask for a clarification (which is pretty much what I did in this case), all you need do is give me one. You don't need to jump to a conclusion yourself that I'm out to discredit you.

I don't think they are deceptive either, to someone like me who has a belief in the pre-existence. However, to most Christians, I believe that any implication that Jesus attained godhood would suggest that He became God at some point during His life. I know that this is something some Christians believe, and I wouldn't want anyone to think it's what I believe.

Hi Katzpur, upon searching some more I did find this. Would this be better wording for you?

Although the term "Christology" is not frequently used by Latter-day Saints, the doctrine of the Church can be described in the following manner: Jesus Christ descended from his high pre-existent station as a God when he came to earth to die for mankind's sins

That would actually work quite a bit better for me -- at least in explaining Mormon doctrine to someone outside the Church. "Christology" is not frequently used in the Church, as you pointed out, and I think that's at least partly because of what it means to most Christians.

 

[Norman]

Not touchy much, are you, Norman? Look, you were the first to pick a fight with me way back when you implied that I was in some sort of mutiny against the Church. Then, instead of issuing an apology, you just deleted the post. An apology would have meant more. We clearly have a few points of disagreement, but that doesn't have to mean I'm your enemy. If I ask for a clarification (which is pretty much what I did in this case), all you need do is give me one. You don't need to jump to a conclusion yourself that I'm out to discredit you.

I don't think they are deceptive either, to someone like me who has a belief in the pre-existence. However, to most Christians, I believe that any implication that Jesus attained godhood would suggest that He became God at some point during His life. I know that this is something some Christians believe, and I wouldn't want anyone to think it's what I believe.

Norman: Hi Katzpur, I did not see my self picking a fight with you. However, if you feel that I did, I am sorry. I quoted from Encyclopedia of Mormonism. If you do not agree with
how they worded something than that is your prerogative. I do not think it is worth debating over. If you do not want people to think that you believe that Jesus attained godhood
then all you have to do is explain yourself when the opportunity arises. However, I take that as meaning that Jesus simply attained Godhood before He cam to the earth. As I
stated before it is just a matter of semantics. I think you are looking into this more than is needed. Your concern would be with the Encyclopedia of Mormonism not with me, that
is all I was trying to say. As, for me, I agree with everything that I posted from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism. I don't feel that you are my enemy. You pointed out to me that
there was no revelation for woman not obtaining the priesthood, I humbly accepted your correction and thanked you for it.

 

[Norman]

Norman: Sometimes that is how you come across to me, Katzpur. Yes, sometimes I feel that you are out to discredit me because of the way you word things
and then get upset with me when I apply to you because you don't like the way I answered you.

 

[Katzpur]

Norman: Sometimes that is how you come across to me, Katzpur. Yes, sometimes I feel that you are out to discredit me because of the way you word things
and then get upset with me when I apply to you because you don't like the way I answered you.

Whatever. It is what it is. I told you that I disagreed with what the Encyclopedia of Mormonism said only in that what it said might be misunderstood by people who don't come from an LDS background. On this forum, all of my answers are given with the non-LDS reader's background in mind. I will even use vocabulary that is not typically LDS if I think it will be more easily understood by a non-LDS audience. In the case of the word "Christology," I felt that it could be misleading to some people because of what the word typically means.

You and I obviously aren't going to agree on every interpretation of every doctrine. I am more liberal in my thinking than the average Mormon. I say that unapologetically. While you have clearly indicated that you see me as some kind of a dissident who is looking to stir things up, you really don't know me. I hold a current temple recommend and I'm a Relief Society teacher. I'm not a mean person and I have no desire to discredit you. But if I see things differently than you do, I'm going to say so.