Existential dread and Religion

[an anarchist]

I suppose that religion will exist as long as there is existential dread in the world.

Why is there suffering? What will happen to me when I die?

There is suffering because the answer is beyond your comprehension but don't fret God is in control (book of Job). And you will go to Heaven when you die.

Though, I felt more dread with the heaven belief as the specific belief also held people went to hell.

People are scared of death and the unknown. Religion gives people the perception of power over these things. So as long as existential dread exists, so will religion in order to act as a counterpart.

Secondary point: is religion counter productive to countering existential dread?

 

[an anarchist]

I think people are more likely to be comforted by the idea that they will go to heaven than concerned about the idea that others will go to hell. Even if a belief system calls for these two beliefs simultaneously, an individual will cling to it as heaven for them occupies their mind as opposed to hell for others occupying their mind.

 

[an anarchist]

Inb4 you say you aren't scared of death.

Would you be scared of death if you did not have your religious beliefs? Do your religious beliefs give you power over the fear of death? What if it is pure unconsciousness after death? Does that idea disturb you?

 

[LuisDantas]

I am told that there is such a thing as a "dark night of the soul" that presumably drives many people to (what is - also presumably) religion, or at least religious belief.

I don't really understand that.

It probably has happened fairly often, but at the end of the day it is just some measure of fears and uncertainties being kept at bay by beliefs of very questionable quality.

People tend to seek remedies for fear of death and mortality mainly because they are taught from a tender age that they should have such a fear and seek remedy for it. It is social acceptance above all else.

 

[PureX]

I think it's more complicated than just existential dread.

We humans do not like not being in control of our own fate. And yet we find ourselves in this predicament often. Those of us that have been fortunate in life do not fear this lack of control so intently. Bot those of us that have suffered greatly at the hands of others, or of fate, have learned to fear this predicament greatly. Sometimes to the point of being immobilized by desperation and panic. And for these people, faith in the possible benevolence of some power greater than fate, and/or their tormentors, is a crucial means of finding a way forward.

And their religions can provide them with actions and rituals that can help them to move forward in a positive way. And there are for more humans in this situation than the rest of us would generally imagine.

 

[Regiomontanus]

And you will go to Heaven when you die.

That is poor (Christian) theology. Our hope is for the general resurrection of the dead.

 

[osgart]

Religion is often respite from the mundane, and the harsh realities of existence. There may be good reasons for spiritual realities. However people really want the importance and purpose of a story so grande it was made for them, and somehow they are apart of it all. No one wants the meaninglessness, the forever loss of love, and the complete indifference of existence that reality brings. Somehow, some way humans are special.

Otoh, there is a mystery to life and existence and perhaps death is an illusion. Human claims to truth are just claims, whether it be religion, or naturalism, nobody has a monopoly on explaining existence.

 

[Stevicus]

I suppose that religion will exist as long as there is existential dread in the world.

Why is there suffering? What will happen to me when I die?

There is suffering because the answer is beyond your comprehension but don't fret God is in control (book of Job). And you will go to Heaven when you die.

Though, I felt more dread with the heaven belief as the specific belief also held people went to hell.

People are scared of death and the unknown. Religion gives people the perception of power over these things. So as long as existential dread exists, so will religion in order to act as a counterpart.

Secondary point: is religion counter productive to countering existential dread?

That may be the reason why people might believe in a god or an afterlife. Fear of the unknown. For some, life may be a mystery that they want an explanation for. It's like a mystery novel where you won't find out whodunit until the very end, but by that time, it's all over.

As for death, as far as I know, everything on this earth that has lived eventually died. I don't expect that I'll be some grand exception to this rule, so I accept death as inevitable and unavoidable.

I just don't know how, when, or what the circumstances might be.

That's what I'm far more apprehensive and fearful about than the actual death itself. Even living a good and moral life and devoutly believing in God doesn't seem to be any guarantee or hedge against some kind of horrific, untimely death with a great deal of suffering leading up to it. They might still end up in a nice afterlife, but who knows?

I think many people prefer not to dwell on it. Most people seem to live to live, and when the time comes to die, then that's all she wrote. If there's something that comes after, then I'll see it when I see it, but if not, then I won't.

Another thing that I fear (probably from too many horror movies) is the idea of still having consciousness yet trapped inside one's own dead, rotting body, aware and able to feel pain. I've been told that that's not really possible biologically. Without nerve function and brain activity, you won't feel or be aware of anything. You'd be totally gone. Dead. Just the same, it's not a pleasant thing to contemplate.

However, I also wonder, in those last few moments just before death, could the brain enter some kind of momentary dream state which might only last a few seconds in real time, but could feel like a million years to the person on the verge of death. They say that people's lives pass before their eyes just before death, so I'm wondering if it could be something like that.

 

[Spice]

I agree that it's a socialized phenomena staged around fear. Humans instill in their young, for their protection in most cases, for control in some situations, necessary fears. "Don't get too close to the edge." "Don't touch that." "Be careful now, you're going to get hurt." On and on to oftentimes including "Wait 'til your father gets home." And "Santa doesn't bring presents to bad children."

Well every person is different and some become nervous wrecks by the time they're off to school. And some have become daredevils.

IMO, the religion that is needed to cushion the unknown is as various as people are in how they acclimated into their young world of "Don't."

I was very trusting of my young "Don't" world so the religion of heaven and hell was probably the most scary thing I faced. Once I accepted the inevitably of death with same trust I had in the "Don'ts" I found the religion that is right for me.
Be kind, do your best, and Que Sera, sera.

 

[Quintessence]

I realize that Christianity - whose dispositions dominate the cultural narratives of Western culture - tends to have a preoccupation with "existential dread" but let's remember religious diversity and that this is not the case across all religious traditions. It is true that religion broadly deals with existential questions of life and living, but how much any particular issue or question is part of what it addresses can and does vary. Dread did not lead me to my religion at all, so there is no preoccupation with it or even much addressing of it. So clearly, there are other things that prompt religion - the need for storytelling - beyond that.

 

[Quintessence]

We humans do not like not being in control of our own fate.

While on the whole you make a good point here, the "we" here doesn't feel accurate. This is a very American, individualistic narrative. Not all of us adhere to those narratives. Not in America, and certainly not globally. It might be more accurate to say that if you live in a culture where the control mythology is present and personally accept it, that's going to cause dysfunction because the reality is starkly different. For everyone else, the other "we" that has been forgotten, we're kind of fine accepting the reality of not being in control. I mean, a ton of theism regardless of the flavor is all about accepting there are higher powers and that you are not in control you dumb, puny human.

 

[LuisDantas]

Well every person is different and some become nervous wrecks by the time they're off to school. And some have become daredevils.

For some time now I have been saying something that makes me sound like Captain Obvious: some people need to develop self-confidence, some need to learn to be more careful and less impulsive.

Even that is an oversimplification - we all go through a variety of environments and situations and react different to those and to different moments.

I don't really understand why one would conclude that people generally all need to uniformly learn to be more fearful (or even less). That is just way too broad a brush and all but guaranteed to result in serious mistakes.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

There is suffering because the answer is beyond your comprehension but don't fret God is in control (book of Job). And you will go to Heaven when you die.

That's a pretty pathetic summary of Job. I could (and have) recommend a qualitatively better commentary, but I doubt that you're all that interested.

People are scared of death and the unknown.

Nevertheless, belief in god(s) predate any concept of heaven.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

There is suffering because the answer is beyond your comprehension but don't fret God is in control (book of Job). And you will go to Heaven when you die.

That's a pretty pathetic summary of Job. I could (and have) recommend a qualitatively better commentary, but I doubt that you're all that interested.

People are scared of death and the unknown.

Nevertheless, belief in god(s) predate any concept of heaven.

 

[an anarchist]

That is poor (Christian) theology. Our hope is for the general resurrection of the dead.

Oh I'm sure other Christians would say your theology and interpretation of Christianity is poor.

 

[George-ananda]

I suppose that religion will exist as long as there is existential dread in the world.

Why is there suffering? What will happen to me when I die?

There is suffering because the answer is beyond your comprehension but don't fret God is in control (book of Job). And you will go to Heaven when you die.

Though, I felt more dread with the heaven belief as the specific belief also held people went to hell.

People are scared of death and the unknown. Religion gives people the perception of power over these things. So as long as existential dread exists, so will religion in order to act as a counterpart.

Secondary point: is religion counter productive to countering existential dread?

I agree that religion and heaven are comforting thoughts to many.

But then I think people want to jump to the conclusion that these religious followers then believe without rational basis for psychological reasons.

However, in my understanding of NDEs and various other types of spiritual experiences and Afterlife Evidence , I have come to believe there is something real to their beliefs also.

Perhaps mainstream Abrahamic religions and atheistic-materialism are both not ultimately correct. I have taken the Eastern (Hindu) path to find more satisfactory explanations.

 

[PureX]

While on the whole you make a good point here, the "we" here doesn't feel accurate. This is a very American, individualistic narrative. Not all of us adhere to those narratives. Not in America, and certainly not globally. It might be more accurate to say that if you live in a culture where the control mythology is present and personally accept it, that's going to cause dysfunction because the reality is starkly different. For everyone else, the other "we" that has been forgotten, we're kind of fine accepting the reality of not being in control. I mean, a ton of theism regardless of the flavor is all about accepting there are higher powers and that you are not in control you dumb, puny human.

I think we like to SAY that we're OK with not being in control. And maybe we even believe it when we say it. But the moment our not being in control causes us any real pain, and loss, and we can do nothing to stop or mitigate it, we will be begging the gods for a magical reprieve. Because it's all we CAN do. And by "we" I mean a great many of we humans in all cultures all across the world.

I think it's true that Americans tend to be somewhat obsessed with the ideal of 'offensive self-determination". But I'm actually talking about something different. I'm talking about defensive self-determination. The avoidance of suffering based on the presumption that we know how if only we could do things our way.

 

[Quintessence]

I think we like to SAY that we're OK with not being in control. And maybe we even believe it when we say it. But the moment our not being in control causes us any real pain, and loss, and we can do nothing to stop or mitigate it, we will be begging the gods for a magical reprieve. Because it's all we CAN do. And by "we" I mean a great many of we humans in all cultures all across the world.

I think it's true that Americans tend to be somewhat obsessed with the ideal of 'offensive self-determination". But I'm actually talking about something different. I'm talking about defensive self-determination. The avoidance of suffering based on the presumption that we know how if only we could do things our way.

It's interesting that you think crying out for help is indicative of not being okay with lack of control. That's not how I would interpret it. In my experience, those who fail to cry out for help are the ones who have hangups about not being (or believing they are) in control. Those who do cry for help, understand they are NOT in control and are comfortable with that fact such that they ask for assistance. They know their place instead of being in denial of it.

 

[Regiomontanus]

Oh I'm sure other Christians would say your theology and interpretation of Christianity is poor.

The notion that your soul zooms of to heaven forever when you die is a post-Enlightenment invention. The early church never taught that.

"...and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come.

Amen."

That is recited during every service/mass.

Nicene Creed

That is, it's all about life after life after death.

 

[PureX]

It's interesting that you think crying out for help is indicative of not being okay with lack of control. That's not how I would interpret it. In my experience, those who fail to cry out for help are the ones who have hangups about not being (or believing they are) in control. Those who do cry for help, understand they are NOT in control and are comfortable with that fact such that they ask for assistance. They know their place instead of being in denial of it.

The use of the term “comfortable” just doesn’t jive with the circumstances. Nor with the way we tend to respond.