Exodus Archeology Evidence

[shunyadragon]

Thanks.

The 14th Dynasty being a ruling class that was Canaanite in origin can therefore be considered.

For a time the Hyksos, not Hebrews.

 

[GoodAttention]

For a time the Hyksos, not Hebrews.

Hyksos is used in reference to the 15th Dynasty, starting in 1650BCE.

The 14th Dynasty starts in 1803BCE.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The simple fact that Genesis 11:28 have mentioned “Chaldeans”, tell me it couldn’t be written some times in the Late Bronze Age, where traditions have attributed the books (including Genesis) to Moses as author.

So what!

Let me try this one last time.

There is nothing -- absolutely nothing! -- about Genesis 11:28 that serves as logical evidence for your claim that ...

The Exodus was written in the 6th century BCE, when prominent Jews were living in exile after the fall of Jerusalem to Nebuchadnezzar II’s Babylonian army in 587 BCE.

There is nothing -- absolutely nothing! -- about Genesis 11:28 that serves as evidence for your claim that ...

Genesis 11:28, is historically anachronistic. By that logic, Genesis, along with other literature attributed to Moses, was actually composed during the Exile in Babylon, when Chaldean king (Nebuchadnezzar II) was ruling Babylonian empire.

Finally, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing! -- remotely relevant in your sloppily worded comment that ...

There are nothing older than the Ketef Hinnom scrolls.

that securely dates the Book of Exodus to the 6th century BCE.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Hyksos is used in reference to the 15th Dynasty, starting in 1650BCE.

The 14th Dynasty starts in 1803BCE.

Is such dating certainty warranted, or simply convenient?

I ask because I note the Wikipedia entry stating:

There are enough gaps in the knowledge of the 14th Dynasty that its absolute chronological position is debated, and can vary by as much as 75 years between authorities. Egyptologist Kim Ryholt proposes that the 14th Dynasty emerged during the late 12th Dynasty, ca. 1805 BC, during or shortly after Sobekneferu's rule. He contends that the local Canaanite population residing in the eastern Delta declared their independence and staved off possible attempts from the 13th Dynasty Memphite kings to recover the Delta. According to Ryholt, the 14th Dynasty lasted from 1805 BC until its demise under the Hyksos 15th Dynasty ca. 1650 BC, lasting a total of 155 years.​

​

This hypothesis is not shared by some Egyptologists, such as Manfred Bietak, Daphna Ben Tor, and James and Susan Allen, who argue that the 14th Dynasty could not have emerged before the mid 13th Dynasty, ca. 1720 BC, after the reign of Sobekhotep IV.[3][4] In particular, they argue that the evidence from the strata levels where 14th Dynasty seals have been discovered conclusively establishes that the 14th Dynasty was only contemporary with the 13th Dynasty in the last half century of the latter's existence, i.e., after ca. 1700 BC. Additionally, Manfred Bietak has dated the inscriptions and monuments of Nehesy, possibly the second ruler of the 14th Dynasty, to around 1700 BC as well.[5] [source]​

 

[gnostic]

The 14th Dynasty being a ruling class that was Canaanite in origin can therefore be considered.

Might be Canaanites, GoodAttention. Might be.

i hoped that you don’t ignore this post.

All we do know is that the the 14th & 15 dynasties are of Asiatic & Semitic origin, and the Canaanites weren’t the only West Semitic-speaking people during the 2nd millennium BCE, as they could include the Moabites, Phoenicians (eg Byblos), and in northwest Syria, like Ugarit, Alalakh, Nagar (Tell Brak, Nagar became independent from 1900 to 1500 BCE; before it became one of the city-states of the Mitanni, from 1500 to 1300 BCE), and the Amorites (also known during the 3rd millennium BCE as “Mar-tu” in Sumerian & Eblaite, and as “Amurru” in Akkadian).

The Amorites were originally nomadic people, and moved about a lot in the 3rd millennium BCE, as far east as encroaching Sumer, and southwest Levant, including Canaan.

As I before, during the 2nd millennium BCE, the Amorites established the 1st dynasty of Babylon, hence the Old Babylonian Empire (1894 - 1595 BCE). The Amorites have also took over the city Mari, from about 1840 to 1761 BCE.

The Amorites are even more likely candidate to be the 14th dynasty than the Canaanites, and as well as among the constituents that made up the Hyksos.

You are making assumptions that the Canaanites were the only West Semitic people; they were not.

Manfred Bietak have pointed out that temples in the northeast Delta in the 14th & 15th dynasties of Egypt, are quite similar to the architecture in areas controlled by contemporary Amorites in Syria, like Nagar, Alalakh, Ugarit and Byblos.

 

[GoodAttention]

Is such dating certainty warranted, or simply convenient?

I ask because I note the Wikipedia entry stating:

There are enough gaps in the knowledge of the 14th Dynasty that its absolute chronological position is debated, and can vary by as much as 75 years between authorities. Egyptologist Kim Ryholt proposes that the 14th Dynasty emerged during the late 12th Dynasty, ca. 1805 BC, during or shortly after Sobekneferu's rule. He contends that the local Canaanite population residing in the eastern Delta declared their independence and staved off possible attempts from the 13th Dynasty Memphite kings to recover the Delta. According to Ryholt, the 14th Dynasty lasted from 1805 BC until its demise under the Hyksos 15th Dynasty ca. 1650 BC, lasting a total of 155 years.​

I find the use of the term "Memphite" to be interesting, because what exactly is meant by this?

According to Wikipedia, Itjtawy was considered the capital of the 12th and 13th Dynasty until 1677BCE.

Itjtawy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thirteenth Dynasty of Egypt - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This hypothesis is not shared by some Egyptologists, such as Manfred Bietak, Daphna Ben Tor, and James and Susan Allen, who argue that the 14th Dynasty could not have emerged before the mid 13th Dynasty, ca. 1720 BC, after the reign of Sobekhotep IV.[3][4] In particular, they argue that the evidence from the strata levels where 14th Dynasty seals have been discovered conclusively establishes that the 14th Dynasty was only contemporary with the 13th Dynasty in the last half century of the latter's existence, i.e., after ca. 1700 BC. Additionally, Manfred Bietak has dated the inscriptions and monuments of Nehesy, possibly the second ruler of the 14th Dynasty, to around 1700 BC as well.[5] [source]​

Even if we are to say the 14th Dynasty should be dated later, I don't believe this is in contrast or of detriment to consider an understanding of the scripture "slavery period" under Pitom/Itjtawy of the 13th Dynasty.

 

[River Sea]

The story of straw and bricks precedes the Ramesside stories of plagues.

It would be pertinent to remember "Exodus" is the Greek/Latin translation of the Hebrew scripture for the "Book of Names".

@GoodAttention

I can't find Exodus. Where's Exodus?

Codex Sinaiticus - Home

Codex Sinaiticus is one of the most important books in the world. Handwritten well over 1600 years ago, the manuscript contains the Christian Bible in Greek, including the oldest complete copy of the New Testament. The Codex Sinaiticus Project is an international collaboration to reunite the...

www.codexsinaiticus.org

screenshot

The new capital city of Akhenaten (18th dynasty) - Amarna - mid-14th century BCE, have his builders to construct this city, mainly using mudbricks. Akhenaten’s reign was an exception.

Pharaoh Akhenaten imposed a single religion, based on the worship of the sun disk “Aten,”

The Lost City of Akhenaten

Pharaoh Akhenaten imposed a single religion, based on the worship of the sun disk “Aten,” and built a new capital city, Amarna, using entirely new architectural techniques. For the first time, researchers were able to reproduce 3D models of some of its buildings.

news.cnrs.fr

No sooner had he died, than the clergy of other religions, notably those of Amon who were very powerful, systematically erased all traces of his reign,” says Robert Vergnieux

The Petrie-Carter Fragments from the Sanctuary Zone of the Great Aten Temple: the decoration of Amarna Sacred Architecture.

Anchoring the northern end of the Central City of Amarna with its huge expanse, the Great Aten Temple was and is the repository of fragmented and difficult evidence that bears on many central questions about art and religion of the period, ranging

www.academia.edu

The Petrie-Carter Fragments from the Sanctuary Zone of the Great Aten Temple: the decoration of Amarna Sacred Architecture.

(Further down the PDF shows English)

“The Great Temple occupies a large space, nearly half a mile long ... And though the
temple proper [hereafter referred to by Petrie as the shrine, and in this paper as the
Sanctuary] only covers a small fraction of the space, at one end of the area, yet the
whole length is strewn with fragments of stonework; and we know from the views in
the tombs, how rows of altars stood on either side of the road to the shrine. The site of
the temple, or shrine [again, the Sanctuary in this article], which was entirely
excavated by Mr. Carter, is marked by heaps of broken pieces of mortar and stone;
and the cores of the walls consisting of mortar and chips still remain to shew the
position. Mr. Carter turned over nearly all of this without finding anything more than
two or three blocks of the great stele. This was built up of small blocks, and bore a

life-size figure of Akhenaten (of which the head was found [piece unknown]), and
doubtless similar figures of the queen and princesses, whose titles were also found.
The absence of all sculptures was partly explained on searching the heap that lay just
outside of the temenos wall, on the south of the temple. Here were found portions of
seventeen limestone statues of the king and queen, probably those that are represented
in porticos in the drawing of the temple. The identifiable remains of these statues,
beside about a ton of fragments, are as follows…”.

@GoodAttention @gnostic
After this temple was destroyed, did this cause YHWH situation later and YHWH temple further east? Maybe these people who sought Akhenaten religion then traveled eastward and built a temple again.

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[shunyadragon]

Hyksos is used in reference to the 15th Dynasty, starting in 1650BCE.

The 14th Dynasty starts in 1803BCE.

Insufficient information concerning the Hyksos. This does not reflect the widest picture of the history at the time.

Hyksos - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Archaeology shows a continuous Asiatic presence at Avaris for over 150 years before the beginning of Hyksos rule,[67] with gradual Canaanite settlement beginning there c. 1800 BC during the Twelfth Dynasty.[18] Strontium isotope analysis of the inhabitants of Middle Kingdom and Second Intermediate Period Avaris also dismissed the invasion model in favor of a migration one. Contrary to the model of a foreign invasion, the study didn't find more males moving into the region, but instead found a sex bias towards females, with a high proportion of 77% of females being non-locals.[68][69]

Manfred Bietak argues that Hyksos "should be understood within a repetitive pattern of the attraction of Egypt for western Asiatic population groups that came in search of a living in the country, especially the Delta, since prehistoric times."[67] He notes that Egypt had long depended on the Levant for expertise in areas of shipbuilding and seafaring, with possible depictions of Asiatic shipbuilders being found from reliefs from the Sixth Dynasty ruler Sahure. The Twelfth Dynasty of Egypt is known to have had many Asiatic immigrants serving as soldiers, household or temple serfs, and various other jobs. Avaris in the Nile Delta attracted many Asiatic immigrants in its role as a hub of international trade and seafaring.[70]

The problem remains the lack of evidence for the "slavery period" of large populations of Hebrew slaves, and the fact that they pyramids and major temples ad government building were built by communities of skilled artisans and not slaves,

 

[GoodAttention]

Insufficient information concerning the Hyksos. This does not reflect the widest picture of the history at the time.

Hyksos - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Archaeology shows a continuous Asiatic presence at Avaris for over 150 years before the beginning of Hyksos rule,[67] with gradual Canaanite settlement beginning there c. 1800 BC during the Twelfth Dynasty.[18] Strontium isotope analysis of the inhabitants of Middle Kingdom and Second Intermediate Period Avaris also dismissed the invasion model in favor of a migration one. Contrary to the model of a foreign invasion, the study didn't find more males moving into the region, but instead found a sex bias towards females, with a high proportion of 77% of females being non-locals.[68][69]

Manfred Bietak argues that Hyksos "should be understood within a repetitive pattern of the attraction of Egypt for western Asiatic population groups that came in search of a living in the country, especially the Delta, since prehistoric times."[67] He notes that Egypt had long depended on the Levant for expertise in areas of shipbuilding and seafaring, with possible depictions of Asiatic shipbuilders being found from reliefs from the Sixth Dynasty ruler Sahure. The Twelfth Dynasty of Egypt is known to have had many Asiatic immigrants serving as soldiers, household or temple serfs, and various other jobs. Avaris in the Nile Delta attracted many Asiatic immigrants in its role as a hub of international trade and seafaring.[70]

The problem remains the lack of evidence for the "slavery period" of large populations of Hebrew slaves, and the fact that they pyramids and major temples ad government building were built by communities of skilled artisans and not slaves,

Define "slave".

 

[shunyadragon]

Define "slave".

Forced labor owned without compensation property of slave holders. Often captured on military conquest, Slaves are property tht may be bought and sold.

Slavery 14th Dynaty Egypt - Google Search

Slavery in Egypt during the 14th Dynasty was characterized by a variety of roles for slaves, including domestic service, labor, and military service:

• Domestic service and labor
  Most slaves were domestic servants and laborers, and could be of any race or ethnicity.
  
  
  
• Military service
  Male slaves were often trained as military slaves, known as mamluks, who became a dominant social class in Egypt. Mamluks were an elite military-political caste that played a significant role in the history of the Muslim world.
  
  
  
• Sexual slavery
  Female slaves were often used for sexual slavery.
  
  
  
• Brick-making
  Slaves were often used as brick-makers, as depicted in a famous scene from the tomb of the vizier Rekmire.

Slaves in Egypt could be emancipated in a number of ways, including:

• Marriage: A slave could be freed in exchange for marrying the owner's relative.
• Adoption: A slave's owner could adopt their children, making them free citizens.

• Slavery in Egypt - Wikipedia
  During the Mamluk Sultanate era (1250–1517), society in Egypt was founded upon a system of military slavery. Male slaves traffic...

 

[GoodAttention]

Forced labor owned without compensation property of slave holders. Often captured on military conquest, Slaves are property tht may be bought and sold.

Slavery 14th Dynaty Egypt - Google Search

Slavery in Egypt during the 14th Dynasty was characterized by a variety of roles for slaves, including domestic service, labor, and military service:

• Domestic service and labor
  Most slaves were domestic servants and laborers, and could be of any race or ethnicity.
  
  
  
• Military service
  Male slaves were often trained as military slaves, known as mamluks, who became a dominant social class in Egypt. Mamluks were an elite military-political caste that played a significant role in the history of the Muslim world.
  
  
  
• Sexual slavery
  Female slaves were often used for sexual slavery.
  
  
  
• Brick-making
  Slaves were often used as brick-makers, as depicted in a famous scene from the tomb of the vizier Rekmire.

Slaves in Egypt could be emancipated in a number of ways, including:

• Marriage: A slave could be freed in exchange for marrying the owner's relative.
• Adoption: A slave's owner could adopt their children, making them free citizens.

• Slavery in Egypt - Wikipedia
  During the Mamluk Sultanate era (1250–1517), society in Egypt was founded upon a system of military slavery. Male slaves traffic...

How/what are you referencing exactly?

You seem to be employing a "slight of hand" by copying and pasting something from somewhere, and implying it relates to the 14th dynasty.