The Messiah didn't destroy them, they put him to death, and they got cut off by God for it.
They destroyed themselves, from not paying attention to what was within their religious texts.
In my opinion.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Expectations of the Messiah Vs What the Scriptures Stipulate
- Thread starter wizanda
- Start date
They destroyed themselves, from not paying attention to what was within their religious texts.
In my opinion.
The Messiah didn't destroy them, they put him to death, and they got cut off by God for it.
They destroyed themselves, from not paying attention to what was within their religious texts.
In my opinion.
But you said that in the grand scheme of things, the Messiah came to destroy a whole bunch of people (some at least holding different beliefs from him presumably, e.g. henotheists, idolators, polytheists).. How did or will he do so?
God created the Messiah to be a test down here near Hell, where the Messiah has tried to be helpful, sharing what is righteous; yet it has thus automatically created lots of shadows, where some are opposites.
Thus for all these opposites discovered, it show some are hypocrites, and some have a bigoted polytheistic way of viewing things.
God then wants to see who faces in the right direction, after everything has been muddled by man, and at the Quantum Fire that cleanses the reality, the enlightened righteous saints remain after, according to multiple religious ideologies.
Source knew when it created the Messiah, that this would all happen, that people would become sided about it, as it is an inevitable part of nature...
Thus why it was prophesied by the Lord, that the Messiah would come to destroy.
In my opinion.
God created the Messiah to be a test down here near Hell, where the Messiah has tried to be helpful, sharing what is righteous; yet it has thus automatically created lots of shadows, where some are opposites.
Thus for all these opposites discovered, it show some are hypocrites, and some have a bigoted polytheistic way of viewing things.
God then wants to see who faces in the right direction, after everything has been muddled by man, and at the Quantum Fire that cleanses the reality, the enlightened righteous saints remain after, according to multiple religious ideologies.
Source knew when it created the Messiah, that this would all happen, that people would become sided about it, as it is an inevitable part of nature...
Thus why it was prophesied by the Lord, that the Messiah would come to destroy.
In my opinion.
So the Messiah did/will come to destroy these people after all? I'm afraid I am not understanding you.
The Messiah came prior to the Curse of Moses (Deuteronomy 28) being placed on the Tribes of Israel, and the 2nd temple destroyed... Where the Curse relates persecuting, and destroying the peoples, whilst sent among the nations.
Then the Messiah returns before Armageddon & Betelgeuse going supernova... Where the Great Tribulation (Revelation 16) will wipe out all of the people, and then God brings back what is worth keeping.
And finally those who've listened to the Messiah will be resurrected into the Messianic Kingdom... The Messiah isn't the bad guy doing the destroying, it is just the Messiah is sent prior to these imminent destructions; whilst the Messiah teaches advanced wisdom to help people survive.
In my opinion.
By what I know, Old Testament doesn't even have the word "The Messiah". That is why it is not possible to say The Messiah is born of two human parents.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Mashiah is the word for Messiah in the old testament. This article may be helpful IMOP written by Father David Neuhaus, SJ, who is the superior of the Jesuits in the Holy Land and professor at the Pontifical Biblical Institute in Jerusalem. Its from Vatican News. What is messianic expectation in the Old Testament? - Vatican News.
The Messiah came prior to the Curse of Moses (Deuteronomy 28) being placed on the Tribes of Israel, and the 2nd temple destroyed... Where the Curse relates persecuting, and destroying the peoples, whilst sent among the nations.
Then the Messiah returns before Armageddon & Betelgeuse going supernova... Where the Great Tribulation (Revelation 16) will wipe out all of the people, and then God brings back what is worth keeping.
And finally those who've listened to the Messiah will be resurrected into the Messianic Kingdom... The Messiah isn't the bad guy doing the destroying, it is just the Messiah is sent prior to these imminent destructions; whilst the Messiah teaches advanced wisdom to help people survive.
In my opinion.
So to be clear, the Messiah did or didn't destroy people the first time around?
The Messiah wasn't the one destroying; its happened because of people not listening to him though.
In my opinion
The Messiah wasn't the one destroying; its happened because of people not listening to him though.
In my opinion
So the Messiah didn't come to destroy after all then.
Who did the destroying, and why exactly?
The Roman Empire attacked Judah because of rebel groups, refusing to pay taxes (Ebionites), & other groups causing a revolt against their occupation of Israel.
Rome to begin caused the Jews to be exiled, by destroying the 2nd temple, and removing them from the land.
Different nations have then persecuted them throughout history, for their rejection of the Messiah.
Ultimately the Source of reality allowed the whole story to be written, and shared throughout history as prophecy...
So God caused it, both their destruction, and the creation.
The reason why from what I can tell, is where down near Hell, and the Source of reality is looking for those zealous souls, who want to understand the wisdom within ancient riddles; whereas some will fall for anything.
A Gnostic texts I really enjoyed, which describes some of the whys, is the Apocryphon of John; as it seems to be the precursor for Revelation 12 - Where the Woman with 12 stars upon her Crown, is Sophia the Goddess of Wisdom, who then gave birth to the Messiah, as a test unto the nations.
If we set everything backwards, and some discern the right way - it shows they wanted to.
In my opinion.
To understand Zen: we'd have to know the tooth fairy never left, and neither did the Messiah.
In my opinion.
The Roman Empire attacked Judah because of rebel groups, refusing to pay taxes (Ebionites), & other groups causing a revolt against their occupation of Israel.
Rome to begin caused the Jews to be exiled, by destroying the 2nd temple, and removing them from the land.
Different nations have then persecuted them throughout history, for their rejection of the Messiah.
Ultimately the Source of reality allowed the whole story to be written, and shared throughout history as prophecy...
So God caused it, both their destruction, and the creation.
The reason why from what I can tell, is where down near Hell, and the Source of reality is looking for those zealous souls, who want to understand the wisdom within ancient riddles; whereas some will fall for anything.
A Gnostic texts I really enjoyed, which describes some of the whys, is the Apocryphon of John; as it seems to be the precursor for Revelation 12 - Where the Woman with 12 stars upon her Crown, is Sophia the Goddess of Wisdom, who then gave birth to the Messiah, as a test unto the nations.
If we set everything backwards, and some discern the right way - it shows they wanted to.
In my opinion.
So God created and is ultimately responsible for destroying many elements of his creation?
WonderingWorrier
Active Member
I have an understanding. But I do question it.
I think the living fountains of water mentioned in the verse below is also explained at the end of the same verse.
Tears.
"For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes". Revelation.
The living fountain seems to be also clearly explained in this verse.
As the living body:
Oh that my head were waters, and mine eyes a fountain of tears, that I might weep day and night for the slain of the daughter of my people! Jeremiah.
It seems to be a simple explanation.
As Jesus said - No fountain yield both salt water and fresh.
My tears taste salty.
Am I wrong?
I will listen.
The whole creation gets reset in a single day, according to multiple religious texts globally.
It is like we are within a universal computer, where God is like the processor; we're all inside its coding.
Therefore when reality is recreated, all that code is reformulated in a Day.
When certain things have taken place historically, and God warned they'd happen; it knows the whole of time, before it happened...
Yet did it make us go astray, no we chose it, and it tried to warn us.
In my opinion.
The whole creation gets reset in a single day, according to multiple religious texts globally.
It is like we are within a universal computer, where God is like the processor; we're all inside its coding.
Therefore when reality is recreated, all that code is reformulated in a Day.
When certain things have taken place historically, and God warned they'd happen; it knows the whole of time, before it happened...
Yet did it make us go astray, no we chose it, and it tried to warn us.
In my opinion.
Is God all-powerful?
God computes the maths like a processor, where everything has chain-reactions; yet it could create what ever maths it wants.
In my opinion.
Thank you. I agree, Messiah comes from the word anointed. And Bible tells there has been many anointed ones, people that were anointed to be priests, prophets or kings. But, it doesn't say directly that there will come "The Messiah" who will do something. Bible tells about many things of future persons who do great things, but many of those seem to be wrongly understood and attributed to "The Messiah".
Jesus Messiah is based on certain interpretations. And I think Old Testament predicts correctly Jesus. But it would be good to be careful on what is interpreted to be about Jesus and what is not. And often it is Messiah is connected to the Messianic age, I think it is wrong to say that Messiah would not do anything before that, as some seem to think.
I think Jesus fulfills best this prophesy:
Yahweh your God will raise up to you a prophet from the midst of you, of your brothers, like me; to him you shall listen;
Deu. 18:15(Acts 7:37)
God made covenant through Moses and promised to do a new one later and that happened through Jesus.
Moses took half of the blood and put it in basins, and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. He took the book of the covenant and read it in the hearing of the people, and they said, "All that Yahweh has spoken will we do, and be obedient." Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, "Look, this is the blood of the covenant, which Yahweh has made with you concerning all these words."
Exodus 24:6-8
For finding fault with them, he said, "Behold, the days come," says the Lord, "That I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, In the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; For they didn't continue in my covenant, And I disregarded them," says the Lord. "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days," says the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more."
Hebrews 8:8-12 (Jeremiah 31:31-34)
He took the cup, gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, "All of you drink it, for this is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the remission of sins.
Matthew 26:27-28
Both could be called Messiah, because both were anointed by God for the job. In addition to this, also David can be called Messiah and by what the Bible tells, God will raise him to be the king of Jews.
For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king, and without prince, and without sacrifice, and without sacred stone, and without ephod or idols. Afterward the children of Israel shall return, and seek Yahweh their God, and David their king, and shall come with trembling to Yahweh and to his blessings in the last days.
Hosea 3:4-5
My servant David shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my ordinances, and observe my statutes, and do them. They shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob my servant, in which your fathers lived; and they shall dwell therein, they, and their children, and their children’s children, forever: and David my servant shall be their prince for ever.
Eze. 37:24-25
Because of all this I think the question about the Messiah is more complex than what people want to see. Often it seems Jews and Christians see only half of the whole image, which then causes many problems.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Yes! I agree with you completely! I'm actually sympathetic with the Jews position compared with the common assumptions in the Christian religion as it evolved. Simply put the coming of the Son had been foretold by seers for ages and ages, long before Abram left Ur, long before Babel, all the way back through the Sethite priesthood, Enoch up to the second fall of Adam and Eve. But in Judaism they developed hardened expectations. If you were born into Judaism you were indoctrinated with those expectations which made it very difficult to open ones mind to anyone who was different.