Ezra the son of God?

[Ex Muslim]

Shalom all,

There is a passage in the Quran chapter 9 verse 30 which reads:

Sahih International: The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?

Any ideas where the author/s of the Quran might have got this from?

 

[Tumah]

Shalom all,

There is a passage in the Quran chapter 9 verse 30 which reads:

Sahih International: The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?

Any ideas where the author/s of the Quran might have got this from?

I have no idea. The concept itself is anathema to Judaism and has been one of the prime arguments against Christianity.

I did however find this, which I think is an interesting idea.

 

[Jedster]

Shalom all,

There is a passage in the Quran chapter 9 verse 30 which reads:

Sahih International: The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?

Any ideas where the author/s of the Quran might have got this from?

I once was in Hyde Park(London) listening to an Islamic preacher and among the things he shouted was that Jews worshipped Ezra as God; he quoted the passage you mention.
Coming from a Jewish background, I asked him about this since, as Tumar has said, it is totally against Jewish belief.
All the preacher answered was ..."Well maybe some of them worshipped Ezra".
He obviously didn't know , but was happy to repeat it "because it is written".
Well, that's blind belief for you!

 

[Jedster]

I have no idea. The concept itself is anathema to Judaism and has been one of the prime arguments against Christianity.

I did however find this, which I think is an interesting idea.

Well, he may have made them poor, but he sure made them excellent cooks. Yemenite food is yummy.


Ooops didn't notice this is a DIR...can I get dispensation just this once

 

[Ex Muslim]

I have no idea. The concept itself is anathema to Judaism and has been one of the prime arguments against Christianity.

I did however find this, which I think is an interesting idea.

Yes I thought as much, they must have heard it locally and just added in to the Quran. Waraqa (Muhammad's first wife's uncle) was an ebonite priest so it's also likely Muhammad could have learnt it from them.

 

[Ex Muslim]

I once was in Hyde Park(London) listening to an Islamic preacher and among the things he shouted was that Jews worshipped Ezra as God; he quoted the passage you mention.
Coming from a Jewish background, I asked him about this since, as Tumar has said, it is totally against Jewish belief.
All the preacher answered was ..."Well maybe some of them worshipped Ezra".
He obviously didn't know , but was happy to repeat it "because it is written".
Well, that's blind belief for you!

Yes that's the only answer I've had so far, "it's in the Quran so it's true."

I find it worrying that people can quote verses which say "May Allah destroy them (Jews and Christians)" in a public place.

 

[Jedster]

Yes that's the only answer I've had so far, "it's in the Quran so it's true."

I find it worrying that people can quote verses which say "May Allah destroy them (Jews and Christians)" in a public place.

Well, you obviously haven't been to Speakers Corner in Hyde Park (London). It was(is?) known as the beacon of free speech, where anything goes

It happens every Sunday.
It does work both ways though. Many Christian and other types of fundies as well
There are lots of examples on youtube.

 

[Tarheeler]

Shalom all,

There is a passage in the Quran chapter 9 verse 30 which reads:

Sahih International: The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?

Any ideas where the author/s of the Quran might have got this from?

Why would we know why something is written in the Qur'an?
You should ask this in the Islam DIR.

 

[Ex Muslim]

Well, you obviously haven't been to Speakers Corner in Hyde Park (London). It was(is?) known as the beacon of free speech, where anything goes

It happens every Sunday.
It does work both ways though. Many Christian and other types of fundies as well
There are lots of examples on youtube.

I'll go down one, sounds like fun

 

[Ex Muslim]

Why would we know why something is written in the Qur'an?
You should ask this in the Islam DIR.

I don't think it's unreasonable for me to ask Jews a question about a Jewish Prophet (wanting an answer from a Jewish point of view, why would I even ask Muslims that?)

 

[Tarheeler]

I don't think it's unreasonable for me to ask Jews a question about a Jewish Prophet (wanting an answer from a Jewish point of view, why would I even ask Muslims that?)

We typically have no clue as to what Muslims claim or why they do so.
Asking us why something is written in their Qur'an is a waste of everyone's time.

 

[Ex Muslim]

Because we typically have no clue as to what Muslims claim or why they do so.

That's why I inserted the Islamic claim in my OP

 

[Tarheeler]

That's why I inserted the Islamic claim in my OP

Why on earth would we know why it was there? Do you believe Jews wrote the Qur'an?

If you have a question about why something is in the Torah, ask us.
If you have a question about why something is in the New Testament, ask the Christians.
If you have a question about why something is in the Qur'an, ask the Muslims.

 

[Ex Muslim]

Why on earth would we know why it was there? Do you believe Jews wrote the Qur'an?

If you have a question about why something is in the Torah, ask us.
If you have a question about why something is in the New Testament, ask the Christians.
If you have a question about why something is in the Qur'an, ask the Muslims.

You're clearly having difficulty reading between the lines here so I'll spell it out clearly for you:

1) Quran claims Jews call Ezra SOG, Christians call Messiah SOG.

2) it is well known that Christians do call Christ SOG

3) Muslims believe Quran to be literal truth from God and therefore will claim Jews did call Ezra SOG, regardless of whether this actually happened in history or not.

The purpose of this thread was to ask Jews if, at any point in Jewish history, any Jew or Jewish community ever called Ezra SOG and, if it ever happened, roughly when did it happen.

Stop making sweeping generalisations about all Jews not knowing anything about this, two people of Jewish background already posted before you and both made contributions, you on the other hand are being an argumentative curmudgeon and continue to post content which is of no help or use whatsoever.

To say "if it's in religious book X, ask people of that book" is very one dimensional, the Quran is making a claim about Jews, who better to ask about the claim being made than the Jews themselves?

If you have nothing to contribute (on this thread) why bother posting at all?

You'll probably respond repeating what you said before, so I'm going to ignore you now

 

[Tarheeler]

You're clearly having difficulty reading between the lines here so I'll spell it out clearly for you:

1) Quran claims Jews call Ezra SOG, Christians call Messiah SOG.

2) it is well known that Christians do call Christ SOG

3) Muslims believe Quran to be literal truth from God and therefore will claim Jews did call Ezra SOG, regardless of whether this actually happened in history or not.

The purpose of this thread was to ask Jews if, at any point in Jewish history, any Jew or Jewish community ever called Ezra SOG and, if it ever happened, roughly when did it happen.

Stop making sweeping generalisations about all Jews not knowing anything about this, two people of Jewish background already posted before you and both made contributions, you on the other hand are being an argumentative curmudgeon and continue to post content which is of no help or use whatsoever.

To say "if it's in religious book X, ask people of that book" is very one dimensional, the Quran is making a claim about Jews, who better to ask about the claim being made than the Jews themselves?

If you have nothing to contribute (on this thread) why bother posting at all?

You'll probably respond repeating what you said before, so I'm going to ignore you now

You're new to the site, so I'll point you in the direction of our rules (which you agreed to when signed up here): http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/rf-rules.170244/

I'll also specifically reference Rule 10, which governs the DIR sections, which this is:
10. "Discuss Individual Religions" Forums, Same-Faith Debates, and "Only" Sections
The DIR sub-forums are for the express use of discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted. DIR areas are not to be used as cover to bash others outside the faith. The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal.


Now that I've done my duty as a moderator here and provided you with knowledge of the rules, I'll address your post.

The purpose of this thread was to ask Jews if, at any point in Jewish history, any Jew or Jewish community ever called Ezra SOG and, if it ever happened, roughly when did it happen.

The answer is no.


Now, if you had simply asked this rather than why it was written in the Qur'an, this would have been a much different conversation.

 

[LAGoff]

Shalom all,

There is a passage in the Quran chapter 9 verse 30 which reads:

Sahih International: The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?

Any ideas where the author/s of the Quran might have got this from?

Shalom all,

There is a passage in the Quran chapter 9 verse 30 which reads:

Sahih International: The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?

Any ideas where the author/s of the Quran might have got this from?

I'd send you here:

and then go to the 05:36 time mark. (it's on youtube under "Tovia Singer EPISODE 59")