Facism Anyone? History Comparison

[dyanaprajna2011]

Stupid people and their differing opinions.

Yeah, who let them in? Oh wait...

 

[Sunstone]

In 1991, I spent three weeks sponsored by the Holocaust Memorial Center studying in Poland and Israel, and I continued with my studies long after that. The thing that really bothers me with many in the T.P. element, the likes of Fox News and the right-wing radio programs, is that they all too often use similar tactics to "Der Sturmer", the NAZI propaganda magazine run by Goebbels. The tactic they used was to stereotype certain groups, make fun of them, use hyperbole, condemn them, use caricatures, blame them for all sorts of things gone wrong, portray them as "not true patriots", etc. Goebbels stated that if you tell the big lie often enough, most will come to believe it.

Please note that I am not claiming that the T.P. and Fox are NAZI's or acting like them, but just pointing out some of the tactics being used. Remember the T.P. signs during the campaigns? Even watch or listen to Beck, Hannity, and/or Limbaugh?

Just an historical footnote, but Goebbels learned a lot from studying Edward Bernays, the American founder of the Public Relations Industry in this country. Bernays cut his teeth serving Woodrow Wilson in his effort to convince the country to support our entry into World War I.

 

[Revoltingest]

In 1991, I spent three weeks sponsored by the Holocaust Memorial Center studying in Poland and Israel, and I continued with my studies long after that. The thing that really bothers me with many in the T.P. element, the likes of Fox News and the right-wing radio programs, is that they all too often use similar tactics to "Der Sturmer", the NAZI propaganda magazine run by Goebbels. The tactic they used was to stereotype certain groups, make fun of them, use hyperbole, condemn them, use caricatures, blame them for all sorts of things gone wrong, portray them as "not true patriots", etc. Goebbels stated that if you tell the big lie often enough, most will come to believe it.
Please note that I am not claiming that the T.P. and Fox are NAZI's or acting like them, but just pointing out some of the tactics being used. Remember the T.P. signs during the campaigns? Even watch or listen to Beck, Hannity, and/or Limbaugh?

At the risk of hearing "False Equivalency!", I note that elements of fascism come from
both sides of the aisle. So cast a wary eye towards towards not just those you despise.
Note also that when I say "elements of fascism", this refers to tendencies in some areas
(eg, spying upon us), which is not my calling any Dem or Pub "fascist".

Do I have enuf disclaimers in there?

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, who let them in? Oh wait...

Well...the door was open!

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

At the risk of hearing "False Equivalency!", I note that elements of fascism come from
both sides of the aisle. So cast a wary eye towards towards not just those you despise.
Note also that when I say "elements of fascism", this refers to tendencies in some areas
(eg, spying upon us), which is not my calling any Dem or Pub "fascist".

Do I have enuf disclaimers in there?

Agreed. Obama seems to be just as much as Bush was. It's not the party, it's the system. It's broke, but no one seems interested in fixing it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Agreed. Obama seems to be just as much as Bush was. It's not the party, it's the system. It's broke, but no one seems interested in fixing it.

I don't have any solutions either.
I vote & carp, but not because I think it will do any good.
It's just what I do.

 

[Sunstone]

At the risk of hearing "False Equivalency!", I note that elements of fascism come from
both sides of the aisle. So cast a wary eye towards towards not just those you despise.
Note also that when I say "elements of fascism", this refers to tendencies in some areas
(eg, spying upon us), which is not my calling any Dem or Pub "fascist".

Sure, but a doctor faced with two cancers, one on the right side and one on the left side of the body might reasonably and wisely choose to operate on the larger and more threatening cancer first.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sure, but a doctor faced with two cancers, one on the right side and one on the left side of the body might reasonably and wisely choose to operate on the larger and more threatening cancer first.

No argument here.

Surprise, surprise!

 

[Sunstone]

Agreed. Obama seems to be just as much as Bush was. It's not the party, it's the system. It's broke, but no one seems interested in fixing it.

Obama and many or most of the Democrats in the House and Senate are perfect illustrations of Chris Hedges' observation that very few Americans today can vote against Goldman Sachs. A vote for Obama and those others is just as much a vote for the Plutocracy as a vote for most any Republican. There is almost no true Left remaining in American politics.

 

[Sunstone]

No argument here.

Surprise, surprise!

Indeed, you have -- quite honestly -- finally managed to surprise me.:cigar:

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Obama and many or most of the Democrats in the House and Senate are perfect illustrations of Chris Hedges' observation that very few Americans today can vote against Goldman Sachs. A vote for Obama and those others is just as much a vote for the Plutocracy as a vote for most any Republican. There is almost no true Left remaining in American politics.

I'd frubal you, but I have to spread the love around. But I agree, it's hard to find a true liberal in the US, which makes me laugh at the conservatives who think Obama and the Dems are "too liberal".

 

[Revoltingest]

Obama and many or most of the Democrats in the House and Senate are perfect illustrations of Chris Hedges' observation that very few Americans today can vote against Goldman Sachs. A vote for Obama and those others is just as much a vote for the Plutocracy as a vote for most any Republican. There is almost no true Left remaining in American politics.

A 2 party system will tend towards the middle (albeit a moving middle).
After all, they're both fighting over the few per cent of votes in the middle.
Lose sight of this, & you lose the election.

 

[Revoltingest]

Indeed, you have -- quite honestly -- finally managed to surprise me.:cigar:

I'm not surprised.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

A 2 party system will tend towards the middle (albeit a moving middle).
After all, they're both fighting over the few per cent of votes in the middle.
Lose sight of this, & you lose the election.

The growing disparity between the right and left is leaving moderates stuck without anyone voicing their views in Washington, though.

 

[Revoltingest]

The growing disparity between the right and left is leaving moderates stuck without anyone voicing their views in Washington, though.

I don't know about that.
What does a moderate advocate?

I notice that the primary process tends to favor more extreme positions, & then they pick
a candidate who thereupon spins a more centrist message in pursuit of that meaty middle.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

I don't know about that.
What does a moderate advocate?

I notice that the primary process tends to favor more extreme positions, & then they pick
a candidate who thereupon spins a more centrist message in pursuit of that meaty middle.

There's not really one platform for those in the middle. And while both sides spin centrist messages, neither side delivers.

 

[Revoltingest]

There's not really one platform for those in the middle. And while both sides spin centrist messages, neither side delivers.

Hmmmm....I disagree. I think the mish mash we see is the middle.
Everything Americastan does seems to be tempered or half way.

 

[Sunstone]

The middle today for politicians seems to be significantly to the Right of Eisenhower. However, for the electorate itself, there's some evidence from polling that the majority is now to the left of most of the politicians on several key issues.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

That's part of the problem- even what we consider 'left' in the US is actually just right of center.

 

[hexler]

To understand where fascism derives you have to know history. The mainreason is, when a people became humiliated. F. e. Germany was twice humiliated. First time was when Karl Martell (Karl the Great) humiliated the Saxons and forced them to become christians. Second time was when Friedrich the Great treated his people as if they whole country was an army barack. Austria was at least once humiliated - in the so called Anti-reformation. In Austria there were once 90% protestants. With the help of the Hapsburgs the catholic church hunted them. They became almost distinguished.
Also the conquistadores humiliated the southamerican aborigines. The list is not complete. It is worth to meditate upon that Australia had no fascism. Why? No priests were involved. Even if some of these banished englishmen were gangsters they became not humiliated and lived relatively normal.