Failure of creationists/theists to undertand scientific theory & facts

[Luminous]

believing is not reasonable, but thinking is. I emphasis my THINKING not my KNOWING. Christians say they know when they most clearly dont.

 

[England my lionheart]

Of course! There is also a minute amount of doubt in the notion there are no pixies under your chair. But what do minute amounts of doubt have to do with what it's reasonable to believe?

OK how about Spinabifida,it was reasonable to believe that the thalidomide was safe to prescibe to pregnant women but we all know how what happened next.

 

[painted wolf]

Spinabifida is generally caused by a lack of Folic acid...
Thalidomide is a teratogen (fetal mutation inducer) and was given to women as a sedative. It was put on the market before any safety tests were done, not by science, but by industry.

In fact in the US the scientific study of the drug by the FDA is what kept it from being a menace in this country. Only 17 children were born with Thalidomide induced mutations.

Score one for science.

Today it is used to treat leprosy and the cancer multiple myeloma.

wa:do

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

The best scientists can say about TOE is that it has not been disproven by science,any scientist would admit there is always a minute amount of doubt.

Well he could say that there is a tremendous amount of evidence that supports his views and explanations and rightly so.
But the funny thing is that this is WAY more than any creationist can say.

 

[England my lionheart]

Well he could say that there is a tremendous amount of evidence that supports his views and explanations and rightly so.
But the funny thing is that this is WAY more than any creationist can say.

If i were a creationist

 

[Sunstone]

OK how about Spinabifida,it was reasonable to believe that the thalidomide was safe to prescibe to pregnant women but we all know how what happened next.

You cannot possibly believe the Theory of Evolution is no better researched than the was thalidomide when it was first prescribed to pregnant women. I admit to being a fool at times, but you've really crossed the line thinking I'd swallow that comparison.

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

If i were a creationist

My statement doesn't depend on you being or not being one.

 

[roli]

This is in response to Lawrence's thread, Errors in the theory of evolution.

Why do (Christian) theists and creationists failed to understand scientific theory and scientific facts, especially in regarding to Evolution?

No, let me correct myself.

It is not simply Christians who failed to understand the difference. It is mainly American Christians who failed to understand the working of science.

Lawrence is not only one who don't understand science. Others have expressed similar ignorance, due to their belief in church dogma teachings, bible or God.

To them, the theory of Evolution is just a theory, with no facts. They have failed to see over the decades, discoveries have been made. These discoveries are evidences that validate Charles Darwin's theory, time and again.

Evidences can either prove or disprove any given theory. If the evidences or repeated testing can prove the theory have substance, then the more evidences found to support the theory, the theory will become scientific facts. We called such evidence-finding, observations, experiments, testings, and validations, as scientific method.

Charles Darwin have done his own research, prior to writing his work, On the Origin of Species (1859), when he sailed on board the HMS Beagle, where he had made a number of discoveries.

His visit to the islands of Galapagos was pretty profound on his researches with living species. The islands are quite remote in the Pacific. You would think that each island would roughly have the same types of animals, but he found that each island have unique features. The islands are close enough together, and yet there are some animals are distinctive from the neighboring islands. Different islands have change some animals because they were required to adapt to different environments.

Since then, other scientists have visited these islands, and have confirmed his finding.

For creationists and theists to ignore the evidences at Darwin's time, and since then, showed the lack of understanding these creationists/theists have for evolution as proven facts.

Why do they failed to see evidences given that prove a theory? Why do continue to say that Evolution is not science or not facts?

Do you ever get the feeling science becomes the theme, as if to be a god, dogma..amongst ToE supporters....,hey. I'm suprised they have'nt applied for religious status.

Why do you insist evolution is science, evolution is what nature does ,developes or evolves, changes, ...science is the study of these changes or evolutionary stages.
As a Christian, it's not that difficult to comprehend and accept, the developmental changes with species and the whole of nature or as some will call it ,Evolution"
It certainly is interesting how these living organisms can develope, within the DNA structure it's made up of, not a real hard thing for anyone to comprehend.

This would be a great thread for ToE proponents, " Why Ignore The Evidence of ID"
Is it somewhat inferior to admit the evidence is available or even mention.

 

[darkendless]

Do you ever get the feeling science becomes the theme, as if to be a god, dogma..amongst ToE supporters....,hey. I'm suprised they have'nt applied for religious status.

Why do you insist evolution is science, evolution is what nature does ,developes or evolves, changes, ...science is the study of these changes or evolutionary stages.
As a Christian, it's not that difficult to comprehend and accept, the developmental changes with species and the whole of nature or as some will call it ,Evolution"
It certainly is interesting how these living organisms can develope, within the DNA structure it's made up of, not a real hard thing for anyone to comprehend.

This would be a great thread for ToE proponents, " Why Ignore The Evidence of ID"
Is it somewhat inferior to admit the evidence is available or even mention.

Intelligent design does not scientifically compare. All it says is everything is too complicated so we'll just say God designed us simply because we cannot and cannot be bothered understanding it. We're complex, but not so complex that we will never know our origins. We need to think outside the square.
Science pushes boundaries, why do you think our knowledge of ourselves is evolving? We will not advance as a species if we do not push boundaries. All we will do is worship the same God's, believe the same things and push the blame off to eachother.

 

[UnTheist]

Do you ever get the feeling science becomes the theme, as if to be a god, dogma..amongst ToE supporters....,hey. I'm suprised they have'nt applied for religious status.

Nope. Accepting evolution as a scientific fact =/= Praising Science as a god.

Just like accepting relativity as a scientific fact =/= Praising Science as a god.

This would be a great thread for ToE proponents, " Why Ignore The Evidence of ID"
Is it somewhat inferior to admit the evidence is available or even mention.

What evidence?

 

[LuisDantas]

Do you ever get the feeling science becomes the theme, as if to be a god, dogma..amongst ToE supporters....,hey. I'm suprised they have'nt applied for religious status.

No, I don't get that feeling at all. And why should I? Biological Evolution has decades of evidence of various kinds to support it, after all. It is not dogmatic in the slightest.

Why do you insist evolution is science, evolution is what nature does ,developes or evolves, changes, ...science is the study of these changes or evolutionary stages.

Nope. You're confusing concepts, be it intentionally or otherwise. The biological concept of evolution is probably a bit misnamed, but it is clearly defined as the way by which living beings change along generations. It is science, because it is quite properly studied and documented by scientific methods.

What you present is a far looser idea of evolution as spontaneous change in nature. Biological evolution is indeed part of it, but by no means the same thing. Science does not particularly restrict itself to studying such changes, either.

As a Christian, it's not that difficult to comprehend and accept, the developmental changes with species and the whole of nature or as some will call it ,Evolution"
It certainly is interesting how these living organisms can develope, within the DNA structure it's made up of, not a real hard thing for anyone to comprehend.

This would be a great thread for ToE proponents, " Why Ignore The Evidence of ID"
Is it somewhat inferior to admit the evidence is available or even mention.

There is no evidence of ID, which turns out to be pretty much a simply aesthetical preference, a form of wishful thinking in fact. On the contrary, many biological facts are very much at odds with the idea of such a purposeful biology.

 

[Autodidact]

Christian or no christian. All in all what darwin has presented as facts might look like a fact to others, but it doesnt look like a fact to me.

I will be the first to admit that i come from a monkey if i see another monkey turn into a human.

The earth is billions of years old. Of course they have to make us a billion years old, because if we were any younger we would have enough time to disprove evolution. We cant simulate a billion years can we? So how can we prove/disprove evolution? Have to take darwins word for it and his findings. Evolution can not be verified experimentally. Thats more than a grey area. Have we or have we not been able to observe evolution within a certain time frame, by recording, analysing and interpreting current evolutionary processes? Or is this all conclusions drawn from something we can hardly recreate or reproduce or at least analyse with current data. If evolution is true, things must still be evolving. Can anybody give me one example of something that is evolving right this moment, and we can observe, interpret and analyse its evolution?

Heneni

Alright, heneni, you're a good example of the OP.
1. Do you know what the Theory of Evolution (ToE) says? I would say no, as your post seems to indicate that you think individual creatures evolve. They don't; only populations of creatures evolve over time.
2. Do you know what the evidence is that supports ToE?

 

[challupa]

Can anybody give me one example of something that is evolving right this moment, and we can observe, interpret and analyse its evolution?
There are Moths in the UK that have adapted their colors from white to dark since the Industrial age. In biology class when we took genetics it was quite obvious there were ongoing mutations in the fruit flies we were working with. So yes there is ongoing evolution all the time. You will not see quick and obvious changes in larger animals as much because they have longer life spans. However, in insects which do have tiny life spans it is more readily noticeable. Evolution is a long long process and we see it more in mental abilities in shorter spans of times. That is very obvious when you look at how fast we have intellectually grown even in the last 100 years. That is one reason why I think it is not advisable to take out of date material and make it into an unquestionable rigid code of beliefs. Life is change and we must always change with it in order to survive. As we learn we must let go of the things that no longer are true. That is what I think.

 

[painted wolf]

we have also watched the evolution of several bacteria, viruses, birds, plants, lizards, fish and small mammals.

wa:do

 

[roli]

Intelligent design does not scientifically compare. All it says is everything is too complicated so we'll just say God designed us simply because we cannot and cannot be bothered understanding it.

Something to ponder.............interesting articles and one worth mentioning as it compares very closely to what views where mentioned on the documentary "Expelled"..but of course they were all fabricated and /or inaccurate to the evolutionist.

1) Dr. Emery S. Dunfee, former professor of physics at the University of Maine at Farmington:

One wonders why, with all the evidence, the (Godless) theory of evolution still persists. One major reason is that many people have a sort of vested interest in this theory. Jobs would be lost, loss of face would result, text books would need to be eliminated or revised.
​

2) Columnist George Caylor once interviewed a molecular biologist for an article entitled "The Biologist," that ran on February 17, 2000, in The Ledger (Lynchburg, VA), and is in part reprinted here as a conversation between "G: (Caylor) and "J" (the scientist). We joint the piece in the middle of a discussion about the complexity of human code.

G: "Do you believe that the information evolved?"
J: "George, nobody I know in my profession believes it evolved. It was engineered by genius beyond genius, and such information could not have been written any other way. The paper and ink did not write the book! Knowing what we know, it is ridiculous to think otherwise."
G: "Have you ever stated that in a public lecture, or in any public writings?"
J: "No, I just say it evolved. To be a molecular biologist requires one to hold onto two insanities at all times. One, it would be insane to believe in evolution when you can see the truth for yourself. Two, it would be insane to say you don't believe evolution. All government work, research grants, papers, big college lectures—everything would stop. I'd be out of a job, or relegated to the outer fringes where I couldn't earn a decent living.
G: I hate to say it, but that sounds intellectually dishonest.
J: The work I do in genetic research is honorable. We will find the cures to many of mankind's worst diseases. But in the meantime, we have to live with the elephant in the living room.

G: What elephant?
G: Creation design. It's like an elephant in the living room. It moves around, takes up space, loudly trumpets, bumps into us, knocks things over, eats a ton of hay, and smells like an elephant. And yet we have to swear it isn't there!
​

,,another quote and one I hear often, but of course not in your circle of influence, nevertheless:

3) Dr. John Morris, president of the Institute for Creation Research:

[Scientists] see the evidence for creation, and they see it clearly, but peer pressure, financial considerations, political correctness, and a religious commitment to naturalism force them to look the other way and insist they see nothing. And so, the illogical origins myth of modern society perpetuates itself.
​

We're complex, but not so complex that we will never know our origins. We need to think outside the square.

That's what it's like trusting Jesus Christ...definitely outside the box and looking outside ourselves for the answers,but when one enters into that personal relationship with our creator with of course revelation and understanding of the things of God, it causes us to continue serving him, dispite the ridicule and mockery of secular society.
Call us this or that ,but they will never know what truth we've encountered and what ignorance they still remain in.
The things of the world including science will pass away, but the sure word of the lord will endure forever...and has stood the test of time. This is what we live and hope for with the utmost assurance.

Science pushes boundaries, why do you think our knowledge of ourselves is evolving?

Some call that "life"
Knowledge of ourselves and the boundaries men push seem to also corrupt them and I think will ultimately destroy them...!!!
God pushes boundaries all the time with those who trust him, he's always bringing about new discoveries ,challenges and experinces in his followers, that's nothing new under the sun.

We will not advance as a species if we do not push boundaries

.
Just look around the world and although we may have technological advancements, medical discoveries etc,etc. you also have what will destroy the very essence of men , something called moral degradation, greed, arrogance,power, lust, perversion, and the like.
....but those with their heads in the perverbial sand, will continue to shout from the roof tops, look at us, we have discovered this and that, look how intelligent we are, but will fail to recognise and admit that moral decline and utter ruin is on the horizon.

 

[Father Heathen]

One thing I don't understand is how people have no problem using the discoveries of science such as technology and medicine without a second thought, but once science discovers something (using the exact same method) that contradicts some ancient and unsubstantiated superstitions, they reject it. You can't have your cake it eat it too.

 

[gnostic]

Every single fields in science have their theories. Each field can or have been proven through evidences which support a given theory. And I don't think creationists and some theists.

Not only evolution is just more than theory, it has practical application in understanding other fields of biology. It also provided us with better understanding of nature.

So evolution is science, and it has been proven.

Something that neither Creationism nor Intelligent Design have done. Or we have from both of these is blind faith and irrational "theory" of some God or Designers, which they really can't prove.

 

[challupa]

And I don't know why we put "God" in such a small box. Let him out!!:slap:

 

[Not Bob]

Columbus stood on the shore watching the ships as they went to sea and as the disapeared over the horizon it gave him the theory that the Earth was round and this theory is proven by many Sailors circumnavigating the globe.
Evolution is a massive jigsaw that is incomplete so until it is it is still a theory,myself i have nothing againt the TOE but science is'nt infallible which can be seen through history.

By the time Columbus sailed across the Atlantic, that the earth was round was commonly accepted. What threw Columbus off was the CIRCUMFERENCE of the earth. He thought it was much smaller than it really is. He was sailing west to establish a new trade route with the Indies, and when he landed he thought that's where he was, thus he believed the inhabitants were Indians.

 

[painted wolf]

The day Intelligent Design mans up and actually makes a hypothesis and tests it and provides any evidence at all of hypothesis... then science will take notice.

Right now they just whine and carry on about how evil science is and how it isn't fair that they actually have to do work to be taken seriously. Blah blah blah....

You can be taught as science when you have something scientific to teach.

wa:do