Failure to communicate?

[Desert Snake]

So why the question?

Because the NT doesn't come with the preface, 'vague content, interpret at will'.

 

[Ouroboros]

Uh, I'm not into reading vague texts for religious meaning.

So we have to physically walk through Jesus. I'm not sure how that's done.

And you have to kill Jesus to drink his blood and eat his flesh? Urgh... disgusting. Sounds like you're into some vampire or zombie cult. :sarcastic

 

[Ouroboros]

Because the NT doesn't come with the preface, 'vague content, interpret at will'.

If you don't interpret, you have to take it fully, absolutely, unconditionally literal.

Which means, you have to walk physically through Jesus's body. That way, we've removed all miscommunication about the topic, but introduced a physical problem. How is it done?

 

[Desert Snake]

So we have to physically walk through Jesus. I'm not sure how that's done.

And you have to kill Jesus to drink his blood and eat his flesh? Urgh... disgusting. Sounds like you're into some vampire or zombie cult. :sarcastic

What?

 

[Desert Snake]

If you don't interpret, you have to take it fully, absolutely, unconditionally literal.

Which means, you have to walk physically through Jesus's body. That way, we've removed all miscommunication about the topic, but introduced a physical problem. How is it done?

No, means I don't use it for religious meaning. Why are you insisting I use it?

 

[Ouroboros]

No, means I don't use it for religious meaning. Why are you insisting I use it?

Oh. I see.

You don't consider it to have any religious meaning! My bad.

I thought you were trying to make some statement that there's only one way of understanding it and that you were wonder why there was any confusion.

 

[Desert Snake]

Oh. I see.

You don't consider it to have any religious meaning! My bad.

I thought you were trying to make some statement that there's only one way of understanding it and that you were wonder why there was any confusion.

Hmm anyways, like I said, I don't do the vague text thing.


Actually the OP is a mistake, I checked a Bible and the statement can't be taken literally, it seems. Still a good topic.

 

[Ouroboros]

Hmm anyways, like I said, I don't do the vague text thing.

The problem is, language is vague. There's no way around it. Linguists and other language experts know this. Language is conceptual, not absolute. It conveys vague ideas, and by adding on many different concepts, the ideas can get clearer, but they're never in full resolution.

Actually the OP is a mistake, I checked a Bible and the statement can't be taken literally, it seems. Still a good topic.

Exactly. It can't be literal. And sure, it's still a good topic. At least it brings in the issue of language and the problem of understanding each other. Religious text is difficult as is, and it's even harder when it's ancient. Ideas, idioms, illustrations, and more are somewhat lost. We don't always translate the stories the way they were supposed to be, simply because we don't live in the same time and don't speak the original language.

Just take something like this. "Möllenö." What's that? That's a phrase we used when I grew. It has meaning and context, but I'm not going to give it away. It's hidden in obscurity and mystery, and now, try to figure out what it means. Perhaps if I put it in a sentence or story it could help, but I'm not sure it would. So how would a person in the future have a clue what it means or what it relates to?

 

[Alceste]

No idea what this is supposed to mean.

It means it's perfectly clear that Jesus thought he was a god, and that only his followers get to go to heaven or whatever, but it's not a very believable claim.

 

[outhouse]

At least it brings in the issue of language and the problem of understanding each other.

The worlds biggest problem.

 

[BSM1]

Jesus was not meant to be worshiped, God or not. What Jesus taught and represented was the main reason of his appearance. Jesus taught a very personal and individual brand of faith. His teachings countered the conventional religious wisdom of the time. The very existence of Jesus gives us a "conduit" between what we know and what we believe. The fact that Jesus lived as a human and ascended spiritually assures us that there is a world beyond our senses. This. I believe, is what He meant by "..going through him..." to the Father. Of course, this is just my truth. Everyone has to find their own.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Uh, yeah, but Xians read the entire Bible, not just the Gospels, usually, why wouldn't the books be compared for meaning.,

Because neither author had the other author's writing. It's not like John had Paul's understanding of Christ available as a reference when he wrote his gospel of vice versa. They were different people writing in different places at different times. Did they both have the same understanding of Jesus Christ? They certainly had different perspectives, so I don't think we can assume so.

anyways, that was my point for discerning meaning there, if we read the epistles it becomes clearer what the nature of Christ is, in theory.

That might be a useful approach if you're trying to base a religion on the writings of Paul and John. It's not a useful approach if you're trying to figure out what John was trying to say.

As an analogy, you know the story of the five blind men and the elephant? It could be that you can reconcile the one man touching the leg of the elephant and saying "an elephant is like a tree trunk!" with the other blind man holding onto the tail and saying "an elephant is like a rope!" but it would be a mistake to say that the experience of the man touching the leg is ropey or that the experience of the man touching the tail is tree-ish. Both experiences are aspects of a unified whole, but they're still discrete - and disparate - experiences.

 

[Thief]

Jesus said in no uncertain terms, that HE is the way to salvation, in fact we HAVE to go through Him to be saved, it seems there is a constant banter/opinion of somehow, Jesus is not the Prime Deity. He clearly is stating He is. What is the communication breakdown here?

Declaring yourself as 'the way' is not the same as putting a crown on your own head.
He never wanted one.
Nor does it mean you will be someone else's scapegoat.
His death saved no one.

I think he was referring to His parables.

 

[Nakosis]

Jesus said in no uncertain terms, that HE is the way to salvation, in fact we HAVE to go through Him to be saved, it seems there is a constant banter/opinion of somehow, Jesus is not the Prime Deity. He clearly is stating He is. What is the communication breakdown here?

Written by folks whom I've no particular reason to trust.

If I write in a letter that you should sacrifice your first born because it pleases God are you going to do that?

Hopefully not, but you are willing to trust people you've never met regarding God, why?

They may well have had the best of intention, yet you don't know their motivations or their trustworthiness. You want to believe otherwise fine but you can't really say you have a good reason to.

 

[Desert Snake]

Written by folks whom I've no particular reason to trust.

If I write in a letter that you should sacrifice your first born because it pleases God are you going to do that?

Hopefully not, but you are willing to trust people you've never met regarding God, why?

They may well have had the best of intention, yet you don't know their motivations or their trustworthiness. You want to believe otherwise fine but you can't really say you have a good reason to.

You are aware that I read the Bible for answers regarding the Bible, right? You don't have to 'believe' the Bible, who cares, but your assessment on who to trust is laughable.