Fair or unfair?

[Valjean]

It's pr

Hmm

I hope this is a very large island, 3% per year adds up to a lot of people after just a few years

I'd rather take my chances elsewhere, sounds way too crowded for my tastes

As far as a " fair test/s "...for me to vote I'd have to know what kind of tests and do we get to study material beforehand or not

Probably Greenland. The ice cap will be gone soon, and the island's largely uninhabited.

 

[Nimos]

I have no more family except my husband and a brother I never see and I have no personal friends except on forums... Will there be computers on the island?

There are days I would not mind leaving the husband behind , but then I might be sorry later.
Oops, I forgot about the cats, I could NEVER leave them behind.

What TV show is that, I might try to find it. My husband loves sci-fi.

Yeah they have all the best technology that human have available in that setting. However you would only really be able to communicate with the 3% others as the rest wouldn't be advanced enough.

The series is called 3%

 

[Trailblazer]

It's pr

Probably Greenland. The ice cap will be gone soon, and the island's largely uninhabited.

Uninhabited? No cars, no traffic, I'd love that, as long as there were some animals there.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yeah they have all the best technology that human have available in that setting. However you would only really be able to communicate with the 3% others as the rest wouldn't be advanced enough.

The series is called 3%

Thanks, but we do not have Netflix. We pay so much for cable it is ridiculous, so I could not justify paying for Netflix.
Maybe I can find the series on cable.

 

[Valjean]

So most of the world is living like only thirty or forty percent lives today? <<shudder!>>
Can you explain this selection process? What are the selectors looking for?

How would sterilization be any inconvenience? You can live a much more prosperous and secure life with no children. You have much more flexibility and many more opportunities. I can't figure out why anyone would want children at all, in a modern society where family wasn't the only support system or security in old age.

Population is, after all, the cause of all the widespread poverty. Too many people chasing ever diminishing resources; living beyond their region's carrying capacity.

Alternative: Worldwide one or two child policy, with tax breaks for no children, till resource usage = resource replenishment.

 

[Valjean]

Uninhabited? No cars, no traffic, I'd love that, as long as there were some animals there.

You're allowed to bring four chickens, two ducks or a cow.

 

[Trailblazer]

You're allowed to bring four chickens, two ducks or a cow.

That won't work because I have 10 cats and many more raccoons and squirrels.

 

[Valjean]

That won't work because I have 10 cats and many more raccoons and squirrels.

Ah, but I anticipate they'll be extinct due to the climate catastrophe. Perhaps we could genetically alter the cats to be vegetarians -- or live on Soylent wafers.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ah, but I anticipate they'll be extinct due to the climate catastrophe. Perhaps we could genetically alter the cats to be vegetarians -- or live on Soylent wafers.

I sure hope so.

 

[Nimos]

So most of the world is living like only thirty or forty percent lives today?

Yeah the majority live poor lives, which is why all of them are so eager to pass the test, so they can go to the island. It's sort of like today, when parents encourage their child to get a degree so they can get a good job etc. Except here everything is aimed at that one chance they get, when they reach the age of 20. That is their ticket to a better life.

Can you explain this selection process? What are the selectors looking for?

The tests are suppose to check for those, which are simply better than the rest and worthy of being part of the 3%, so it's everything from how they handle situations under pressure, to performing IQ looking things, and how much they are willing to sacrifice for the island.

How would sterilization be any inconvenience? You can live a much more prosperous and secure life with no children. You have much more flexibility and many more opportunities. I can't figure out why anyone would want children at all, in a modern society where family wasn't the only support system or security in old age.

For a lot people family is important.

Population is, after all, the cause of all the widespread poverty. Too many people chasing ever diminishing resources; living beyond their region's carrying capacity.

I guess that is one of the points with the tv series, the 3% live in luxury while the rest live in poverty and just have to try to survive as best they can. Obviously there is a lot more to the tv series and what is going on than what I can explain here, as I don't want to spoil stuff and because its not really important for the scenario I original presented

Alternative: Worldwide one or two child policy, with tax breaks for no children, till resource usage = resource replenishment.

For the most part around the world, especially as people get richer they tend to get less children. Besides that, a poor african family like this (Just an example, no idea if they are even one family):

Adding up all the pollution and pressure this one family puts on the environment throughout their whole lifetime, is probably far less than what a single western child does in their lifetime. So when that child grows up and buy a house, car, bicycles, mobile phones, computers, tv, cloth etc. Including what their parents spend on them in diapers, plastic toys etc. when they were small. The family in this picture, will probably never have any of those things and therefore pollute far less.

So the issue as I see it, is not really overpopulation it is how we decide to waste resources, because we are taught from a very young age that we need to spend money, we are presented with so many nonsense options of things we have to buy to be happy. Our economy requires people to go out an constantly buy all this useless trash. How many people get anything repaired today? If your washing machine breaks, its almost cheaper to buy a new one, rather than having to repair it. Items are created so they are almost impossible to repair for a normal person. We use and throw away, because that is what keeps things running. That is the true issue if you ask me, its not that these poor families have more children than a rich one. It's the system that is broken.

If you look at the average amount of children people gets, for the most part in countries with wealth its just below 2, which means that the population growth is stagnating in those countries. However the amount of children people gets seems to have a close connection to how poor a country/people is.

Here is a list of average number of children women gets in a number of countries.
The World Factbook — Central Intelligence Agency

So as people get richer, better educated, if women go to work as well, and is not home running the house. The amount of children they get will automatically fall as a result.

 

[Nimos]

Thanks, but we do not have Netflix. We pay so much for cable it is ridiculous, so I could not justify paying for Netflix.
Maybe I can find the series on cable.

Same issue here, so I decided to cancel my cable and only got with netflix. But we still have access to main public channels here regardless. But to be honest, I rarely watch tv, in fact I can't even remember the last time I watch any. Its nothing but replays of 1990s movies, I think they show Die hard 1, 2, 3 close to 25 times a year here, rotating from channel to channel. And if it's not that, they show reality shows, cooking competitions, dancing and singing competitions, people showing off their garden, houses etc, celebrities talking about stuff that shouldn't interest anyone. So TV here, in my opinion at least, is of very poor quality.
I feel dumber after having watched some of it to be honest So ill rather watch movies, tv series and find online lectures and documentaries on the internet talking about interesting things and so you can learn some things.

The TV technology is probably one of the most wasted possibilities we have in the world. A media capable of teaching and reaching so many people and then we choose to fill it with absolute nonsense for 90% of the time. Not saying that entertainment is not important, but the type of entertainment that is shown, is of really low quality in my opinion and God all those commercials.

 

[Valjean]

The tests are suppose to check for those, which are simply better than the rest and worthy of being part of the 3%, so it's everything from how they handle situations under pressure, to performing IQ looking things, and how much they are willing to sacrifice for the island.

So the intelligent and competent are going to be prevented from breeding, while the unwashed masses may have as many children as they can't afford?

For a lot people family is important.

The strength of family bonds is inversely proportional with prosperity and security. In modern societies a coalition isn't needed for personal or job security. It's possible for an individual to prosper without team support.

For the most part around the world, especially as people get richer they tend to get less children.

True, but there's a lag. The effect doesn't become pronounced till the second and third prosperous generations. Moreover, until family size does decrease, chances of prosperity -- and fewer children -- are considerably diminished.

Without organized co-operation, rather than competition, and a strong social safety net, progress on this front is difficult.
Big government is the solution, not the problem.

 

[Nimos]

So the intelligent and competent are going to be prevented from breeding, while the unwashed masses may have as many children as they can't afford?

Yeah that's basically how it goes. It's so everyone is given a chance to get to the island and so those living there can't just pass their "speciality" to their offspring. Sort of like when people are told the illusion that everyone have equal chances here in life... however a person growing up in a wealthy family have a much higher chance to be send to good schools, get decent food or whatever help they need etc. Because their parents can afford it. Obviously it depend which country you are from... but anyway that is the point with it, I guess.

The poor people are only there to supply new members to the island, they don't lack anything, except people.

The strength of family bonds is inversely proportional with prosperity and security. In modern societies a coalition isn't needed for personal or job security. It's possible for an individual to prosper without team support.

In the series the bonds are to the idea and prosperity of the island, so those living there become your family the cause etc. is what you work and value and not personal goals of a little happy family. Sort of like when people devout themselves to something and they put it above anything else. Like the nazis to the party and hitler or whatever.

True, but there's a lag. The effect doesn't become pronounced till the second and third prosperous generations. Moreover, until family size does decrease, chances of prosperity -- and fewer children -- are considerably diminished.

Without organized co-operation, rather than competition, and a strong social safety net, progress on this front is difficult.
Big government is the solution, not the problem.

Yeah it wont happen overnight, but is something that will gradually happen, if less people end up in situations where they need many children, or have the necessary means of protection, or whether its a religious view that pushes it, there are lots of reasons.

I don't know what the solution is, but I don't think a big government is. Just look at history and even today, at China, Russia etc. governments are easily corrupted and lots of people in power tend to act in personal interests, whether that is because they want to win the next election, want to be in power, because it gives them lots of money etc. There are lots of reasons. What is needed in my view, is to run Earth in a way that it is seen as one interconnected system. Humans connection to all other lifeforms on the planet.
A system that is based on improving the life quality for all life on Earth and not a system that in many ways is driven by money, greed and hate towards others and how one can best exploit what is available on this planet. Therefore such system would and could only be driven by "best possible explanations" driven by data and facts rather than faith and personal beliefs. We are at an age where we can explain and solve a huge amount of issues, not just by guessing, but through knowledge and testing. Look at how much effort is going into finding a cure for the Covid virus? Billions of dollars are thrown into this all over the world. The only issue here is, that the billions of dollars should not be needed, it should be done because it makes sense to do, because we know the facts and because it improves the lives of all humans. And to me that is issue with the world today, it's not driven by what makes sense to do in regards to nature and human lives or especially what the facts shows etc. But what can turn a profit.

Look at the climate crisis and how incompetent we try to solve it, well it cost money so we can't do it efficiently. You have political battles of who should do what and who shouldn't, while the scientists working in these fields, constantly supply data showing that it is getting worse or that it is worse than first expected.

I don't know how one could change things, but I think the absolute best approach to even get started is to aim for an equal world. Look at this madness:

Breaking the amount down more, Bezos is making about $321 million a day, $13.4 million an hour, $222,884 a minute, and $3,715 a second this year. The largest single-day increase in Bezos's net worth is $13 billion, which he achieved on July 20, 2020.

And then you have people all around the world dying of hunger, living under some of the poorest conditions. It is freaking madness if you ask me and this is just one person.

 

[Trailblazer]

Same issue here, so I decided to cancel my cable and only got with netflix. But we still have access to main public channels here regardless. But to be honest, I rarely watch tv, in fact I can't even remember the last time I watch any. Its nothing but replays of 1990s movies, I think they show Die hard 1, 2, 3 close to 25 times a year here, rotating from channel to channel. And if it's not that, they show reality shows, cooking competitions, dancing and singing competitions, people showing off their garden, houses etc, celebrities talking about stuff that shouldn't interest anyone. So TV here, in my opinion at least, is of very poor quality.
I feel dumber after having watched some of it to be honest So will rather watch movies, tv series and find online lectures and documentaries on the internet talking about interesting things and so you can learn some things.

I rarely watch TV anymore either, and if I do it is usually a true crime program like Forensic Files or Investigation Discovery, for an hour or so before I go to sleep. I never watch any TV series for entertainment anymore, I would never have the time. Around here with all these cats and so many sick, I am always waiting for the other shoe to drop, so that is what our lives revolve around. When not in a complete crisis situation as I have been for a while, I would much rather read posts on here and converse with people. I am not much for the Zoom meetings the Baha'is have all the time because I do not like seeing myself on a computer screen and I do not like others seeing me! I also do not feel comfortable in Baha'i meetings because they say prayers and God is the last one I feel like talking to when in a crisis mode.

There are a few old movies I like to watch over and over again, like The Fugitive and Big Country and we can get movies like those on cable for free.

The TV technology is probably one of the most wasted possibilities we have in the world. A media capable of teaching and reaching so many people and then we choose to fill it with absolute nonsense for 90% of the time. Not saying that entertainment is not important, but the type of entertainment that is shown, is of really low quality in my opinion and God all those commercials.

I fully agree most of what is on TV is just a waste of time, aimed at people of low intelligence. And of course the commercials are insufferable. With what is going on in this country and the whole world, one could just watch news all the time, and now with Covid-19 and the Presidential election coming up here that is center stage. God help us all of Trump gets re-elected.

 

[Nimos]

With what is going on in this country and the whole world, one could just watch news all the time, and now with Covid-19 and the Presidential election coming up here that is center stage. God help us all of Trump gets re-elected.

Yeah that would be one hell of a disaster to be honest. Not only for the US, but the whole world.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yeah that would be one hell of a disaster to be honest. Not only for the US, but the whole world.

So let's all pray it does not happen, even if we do not believe in God.