Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

[sojourner]

I would not use that language but I agree.

Our need for those is what is true.

Regards
DL

Our need for them point to the truth of them.

 

[Cephus]

Gnostic Christians, as free thinkers may recognize that a religion is not required to attain enlightenment from the spiritual realm but we do recognize that most people also want and seek fellowship. It is a part of our psychology and if we do not offer that along with our traditions, they will die out. Even atheists are starting churches because they know of and need to appease that need in their children.

Sociologists has clearly shown this. If you check your own psyche, you might see that that is a part of why you are here.

Nope, I'm not here for fellowship at all, I'm here to debate. I have other places that I can go for social reasons. If people want fellowship, there are plenty of entirely secular groups that they can go to for that, they don't have to go sit in a church and listen to a load of nonsense every week.

 

[Nakosis]

There are more important things than just being comfortable. The most comforting lie is still a lie, the most uncomfortable truth is still the truth. People need to grow up and learn how to deal with the world as it actually is, rather than pretend it's something else.

I'm happy to let people make their own choices as to what to believe. I have no desire nor see any particular reason to insist that others accept the reality that I accept. In fact I kind of hate it when others think like me. I prefer the conflict of ideas.

If everyone thought the same as you, who'd the heck would you debate with?

I don't know why it troubles you for people to accept a different view of reality then your own.

 

[Nakosis]

Nope, I'm not here for fellowship at all, I'm here to debate. I have other places that I can go for social reasons. If people want fellowship, there are plenty of entirely secular groups that they can go to for that, they don't have to go sit in a church and listen to a load of nonsense every week.

It provides a common view. It's not like my Grandmother is going to fit in with a bunch of scientists discussing how best to measure the speed of light. She was forced to quit the 3rd grade so she could work to support her family.

Not everyone can meet your expectation of whatever you think it is they should have to accept the reality you think they should.

I don't need you to accept my truth. All we really need is a little agreement on how to best treat each other. If someone goes through life worshiping Thor, what does it matter if they treat others fairly?

 

[sojourner]

Nope, I'm not here for fellowship at all, I'm here to debate. I have other places that I can go for social reasons. If people want fellowship, there are plenty of entirely secular groups that they can go to for that, they don't have to go sit in a church and listen to a load of nonsense every week.

Perhaps they don't "have" to go. Perhaps they want to go and sit in a church and listen to truth every week. You see, church isn't just about "fellowship." It's about becoming true community that is based in a spiritual understanding and meaning of who humanity is together.

 

[free spirit]

God is an elevate man. God has yet to be recognized by the Gnostic elect because there is none at the moment so to say God knows us would be wrong. God will know us by our works and deeds just as Jesus would recognize his people. You and I are God's people but he cannot know us without a church. Most churches begin as house churches and we are not even doing that yet as far as I can tell.

Our faith is not lukewarm or hot. It barely lives. Gnostics have to resist our natural goatish tendency to go it alone. That is one of our greater strengths but we must supress it for the greater good. Our religion thanks to apotheosis and our moral positions are superior to what the other Abrahamic cults are doing and yes they will hate us for pointing that out but that is how we convert. Happily, they cannot kill us the way they did in the past.

Atheists will hate us as well because they will see our spiritual beliefs as supernatural and woo even though It has none.

That is why we need a creed. So that we can get a consistent message out there instead of the plethora of individuals all using a different nomenclature to express the same message. That is what will kick-start Gnostic Christianity. That is why I seek one with organizational skill. It would also be nice if he has pushed his apotheosis. Then we would be two.

I will check out your book although I am doing more writing than reading of late and have little need for another message that is viable but unique. Our uniqueness is what keeps us separate.

We have to create a new Divine Council or Gnostic Christianity is dead.

Divine Council - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards
DL

I agree, please read my book with an open mind, it will shake your socks off, wisdom and understanding given by God is the foundation for its existence, and then we speak again on the matter.

 

[Greatest I am]

I agree, please read my book with an open mind, it will shake your socks off, wisdom and understanding given by God is the foundation for its existence, and then we speak again on the matter.

Wisdom is only wise if the Divine Council says it is.

In the older customs, the Rabbis had more power than God. Without the council, there is no wisdom or God.

Regards
DL

 

[Desert Snake]

Gnostic Christianity. Those of us who force our apotheosis know and learn from it that the Godhead we find, more of a cosmic consciousness than an individual God mind, must be set aside and our bar of expectation raised so that we can seek anew. The seeking is what is important. The finding only confirms heaven and heaven tells us to do our work here on earth and ignore it as it will not disappear.

As Jesus kept saying, --- seek God. He did not say to set God aside when found (directly), but that is what a true seeker of Gnosis will do and Gnosis is more important than any God.

Regards
DL

Any proof of this? Why is this believable? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Greatest I am]

Any proof of this? Why is this believable? It doesn't make sense to me.

There is no proof for apotheosis but sociology says that there is such a thing and science may be close to giving us the proof that I sorely would like to have.

I do have a wife who will swear that telepathy is real and so would I. I reached her mind the one time and reached the cosmic consciousness only the one time as well.

That aside, have a look at these two clips and see if you think they hold any veracity.

Regards
DL

 

[Havitor]

Faith is comparable to trust. Everyone of us exercises forms of trust. Trust comes in two forms, developed and immediate. Developed trust happens over time. Over time we can develop trust in objects, people, and even place. Developed trust only happens after repeated exposures and experiences. Just as all facts are developer facts, when enough evidence is presented things are excepted as facts. Immediate trust is simply a choice. It is not evidence based like developed trust. Each of us has put immediate trust in people and things, with both good and bad results.

A strange things happens when we decide to put trust in something (developed or immediate). All forms of trust can be blind. For example, we put our trust in a leader, that has earned our trust. Over repeated events and experiences he has been right and trust worthy. Then that leader asks us to do something that causes us to hesitate or question. Then we are faced with a dilemma, do we trust him or not. Of course it would depend on what he asked us to do, but in most cases, we are more likely to follow.

The question of faith being some kind of Idol worship is a strange one. Idol worship is to put a physical object in the place of a deity. An example would be the golden cafe that Aaron made for the Israels. They were not worshiping a different god (like an Egyptian god), but just created and object to represent God. In more general terms some consider an idol to be anything that hold more value to you then your deity.

I do not see how ether of these apply to faith. To have faith in God is not idol worship. It is correct worship. It appears you are defining idol worship as anything we put faith in. Under that definitions faith in God or anything else would be idol worship. But, idol worship is the opposite of faith in God. In a world where we have defined meanings for words. You can not properly say white is black. Or that faith is idol worship.

 

[Azihayya]

You sure seem to have embraced the close-minded mentality.

(only in regards to having told me what Faith is- thanks for that)

 

[arthra]

As far as "faith closing the mind.." I think it depends on your definition of "faith"... For Baha'is faith is conscious knowledge and action... so that wouldn't close your mind... It probably would challenge your mind more..

Bahá’u'lláh defines the "essence of faith" as "fewness of words and abundance of deeds" ...
“By faith is meant, first, conscious knowledge,and second, the practice of good deeds.”

— ‘Abdu’l Baha

 

[Greatest I am]

Faith is comparable to trust. Everyone of us exercises forms of trust. Trust comes in two forms, developed and immediate. Developed trust happens over time. Over time we can develop trust in objects, people, and even place. Developed trust only happens after repeated exposures and experiences. Just as all facts are developer facts, when enough evidence is presented things are excepted as facts. Immediate trust is simply a choice. It is not evidence based like developed trust. Each of us has put immediate trust in people and things, with both good and bad results.

A strange things happens when we decide to put trust in something (developed or immediate). All forms of trust can be blind. For example, we put our trust in a leader, that has earned our trust. Over repeated events and experiences he has been right and trust worthy. Then that leader asks us to do something that causes us to hesitate or question. Then we are faced with a dilemma, do we trust him or not. Of course it would depend on what he asked us to do, but in most cases, we are more likely to follow.

The question of faith being some kind of Idol worship is a strange one. Idol worship is to put a physical object in the place of a deity. An example would be the golden cafe that Aaron made for the Israels. They were not worshiping a different god (like an Egyptian god), but just created and object to represent God. In more general terms some consider an idol to be anything that hold more value to you then your deity.

I do not see how ether of these apply to faith. To have faith in God is not idol worship. It is correct worship. It appears you are defining idol worship as anything we put faith in. Under that definitions faith in God or anything else would be idol worship. But, idol worship is the opposite of faith in God. In a world where we have defined meanings for words. You can not properly say white is black. Or that faith is idol worship.

Faith in God is idol worship.

Faith is assigned to that entity and that is definitely idol worship.

Tell us what God you have faith in and recognize that the moment you name a God is the moment you create your golden calf, even if it does not look like a cow.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

As far as "faith closing the mind.." I think it depends on your definition of "faith"... For Baha'is faith is conscious knowledge and action... so that wouldn't close your mind... It probably would challenge your mind more..

Bahá’u'lláh defines the "essence of faith" as "fewness of words and abundance of deeds" ...
“By faith is meant, first, conscious knowledge,and second, the practice of good deeds.”

— ‘Abdu’l Baha

Try Webster.

Works and deeds are as named and those are not faith in any sense of the normal definition. Bahá’u'lláh can redefine terms all he likes but I am speaking English here and if you wish to chat then use English and not whatever definition or terms fit your particular delusion.

Regards
DL

 

[Azihayya]

Oh, so we're all expected to worship the Dictionary now, aye?

Forget personal interpretation, just believe what the Dictionary tells you.
There's no room for bias if you just have faith in the Dictionary.

 

[Greatest I am]

Oh, so we're all expected to worship the Dictionary now, aye?

Forget personal interpretation, just believe what the Dictionary tells you.
There's no room for bias if you just have faith in the Dictionary.

No one said to worship anything.

As a Gnostic Christian, it is my belief that nothing should be worshiped. Doing so makes us idol worshipers like you have become.

Regards
DL

 

[ChristineES]

No one said to worship anything.

As a Gnostic Christian, it is my belief that nothing should be worshiped. Doing so makes us idol worshipers like you have become.

Regards
DL

If we are to worship nothing, then what is the commandment "Love the Lord Your God with all your heart, will all your mind, with all your strength (might) mean? Isn't that worship? I always thought it was.

 

[Cephus]

If we are to worship nothing, then what is the commandment "Love the Lord Your God with all your heart, will all your mind, with all your strength (might) mean? Isn't that worship? I always thought it was.

Without trying to leap into this discussion too much, but I love my wife, I most certainly do not worship my wife.

 

[ChristineES]

Without trying to leap into this discussion too much, but I love my wife, I most certainly do not worship my wife.

I don't mean just loving, but loving with your whole heart, mind and strength. We are commanded to love our neighbors as ourself, and that would not be worship.

 

[Cephus]

I don't mean just loving, but loving with your whole heart, mind and strength. We are commanded to love our neighbors as ourself, and that would not be worship.

I love my wife in every way that I am capable of loving someone. Still not worship.