Faith Crisis

[metis]

As far as prayer is concerned, let me pass on some advice that came from reading Gandhi 30+ years ago that has had a major effect on my life. He never heard God's voice but felt that God may speak to us through strong or recurring feelings that we should do or not do something. But first of all, he said we have to make certain these feeling are moral before acting on them, but if we determine they are, then not to let ourselves talk us out of them. I simply cannot tell you how many doors that has opened up for me in ways I never could have expected.

 

[OceanSoul]

Since your morals you listed are your religion, are you looking for more structure or foundation to them? To add to your morals or shape them based on religious practices and beliefs?

I went to a Santero (a "priest" of the Santeria religion) and received a reading. He mentioned I have many morals and values but I don't have a solid foundation to mold them in a coherent lifestyle. I now have a religion that cannot be separated from my lifestyle: it is my lifesyle. It is me.

How do you view religion? Is it separate from your goals? Maybe how you define religion shows how others the challenges you may have and ways to help you address them.

So you integrated your religion into your every day life...I'm not sure how I would do that since it's hard to not want to separate them so I get what I need to out of the way and then have time for my faith. I guess that's not the best approach to religion.

What is religion to me? When I think of the word, I associate it with Christians praying together or breaking bread and drinking wine, Muslims praying 5 times and bowing, Buddhists meditating in a Sangha, etc. The rituals have a purpose and symbolize something important to them. I know that it is more complicated than that and not every person has theirs that organized.

 

[OceanSoul]

As far as prayer is concerned, let me pass on some advice that came from reading Gandhi 30+ years ago that has had a major effect on my life. He never heard God's voice but felt that God may speak to us through strong or recurring feelings that we should do or not do something. But first of all, he said we have to make certain these feeling are moral before acting on them, but if we determine they are, then not to let ourselves talk us out of them. I simply cannot tell you how many doors that has opened up for me in ways I never could have expected.

Definitely food for thought, I'll keep that in mind. Maybe it's a bit much to expect a booming voice to talk back, heh.

 

[metis]

Definitely food for thought, I'll keep that in mind. Maybe it's a bit much to expect a booming voice to talk back, heh.

Ya, the only booming voice I usually hear is my wife telling me what she wants me to do next.

 

[OceanSoul]

Ya, the only booming voice I usually hear is my wife telling me what she wants me to do next.

Hahaha, I'm guessing that is a voice you can't ignore either.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So you integrated your religion into your every day life...I'm not sure how I would do that since it's hard to not want to separate them so I get what I need to out of the way and then have time for my faith. I guess that's not the best approach to religion.

I wouldn't say it's not the best approach. Have you thought about seeing religion as a foundation to "get what you need out the way"?

For example, I remember someone, I think a Muslim, on RF said that everything he does from where he works to how he eats is defined by his religion and its practices. So, basically, his troubles may it be financial or passing of a family member he goes back to his faith for answers.

However...

What is religion to me? When I think of the word, I associate it with Christians praying together or breaking bread and drinking wine, Muslims praying 5 times and bowing, Buddhists meditating in a Sangha, etc. The rituals have a purpose and symbolize something important to them. I know that it is more complicated than that and not every person has theirs that organized.

...is this how you see religion or how others define it for you?

If the former, you have a start of finding religions that focus on discipline and practice. So, modern religions and eclectic ones wouldn't work well in that area unless one builds their own structure and discipline in faith.

If it's the latter, maybe do some reflecting and see if you want others to define who you are and what you value. Many religions do that, help people define themselves by their tenants. It's not a bad thing if it's healthy and well meaning for the person. So, I'd think about where you want structure or be free spirited.

A lot of people, I noticed, who are struggling with faith go to Paganism, Buddhism, or Neopaganism, Atheism, and in between.

Paganism is very complex. Buddhism, depending on the school, is very disciplined and structured. Atheism isn't a religion and you can just live by your morals without calling it a religion. Those in between seem to be all-together or eclectic.

My point is, that can be confusing; so searching for concrete religions may be your first bet.

Also, in my opinion, when you search religions, if you hear in the back of your mind "that's common sense" then write that point down because that's what religion is: what is common sense to you.

Anyway, I can go on and on. Basically, spread out your searches, make sure (in my opinion), the religions you're interested in are common sense to you. Be aware that what you are not familiar with in a religion you take up would be a challenge but I wouldn't turn away from it because of the challenge. Say, in my case, I am an atheist. In Mahayana Buddhism, there are many gods and goddesses (not to be confused with paganism). More Indian cosmology. I don't turn from it because it doesn't reflect that I don't believe in gods. I embrace the challenge, don't convince myself there are gods, and find the meaning behind why and how gods are used in the sacred texts and sutras I read.

and so on and so forth. .

I do think you understand my point. I hope this helps.

 

[muhammad_isa]

...
What is religion to me? When I think of the word, I associate it with Christians praying together or breaking bread and drinking wine, Muslims praying 5 times and bowing, Buddhists meditating in a Sangha, etc. The rituals have a purpose and symbolize something important to them. I know that it is more complicated than that and not every person has theirs that organized.

Peace be with you ... what made you become a Christian?
Is it something to do with where you live, personal study or a combination of things, perhaps?

 

[OceanSoul]

I wouldn't say it's not the best approach. Have you thought about seeing religion as a foundation to "get what you need out the way"?

For example, I remember someone, I think a Muslim, on RF said that everything he does from where he works to how he eats is defined by his religion and its practices. So, basically, his troubles may it be financial or passing of a family member he goes back to his faith for answers.

However...



...is this how you see religion or how others define it for you?

If the former, you have a start of finding religions that focus on discipline and practice. So, modern religions and eclectic ones wouldn't work well in that area unless one builds their own structure and discipline in faith.

If it's the latter, maybe do some reflecting and see if you want others to define who you are and what you value. Many religions do that, help people define themselves by their tenants. It's not a bad thing if it's healthy and well meaning for the person. So, I'd think about where you want structure or be free spirited.

A lot of people, I noticed, who are struggling with faith go to Paganism, Buddhism, or Neopaganism, Atheism, and in between.

Paganism is very complex. Buddhism, depending on the school, is very disciplined and structured. Atheism isn't a religion and you can just live by your morals without calling it a religion. Those in between seem to be all-together or eclectic.

My point is, that can be confusing; so searching for concrete religions may be your first bet.

Also, in my opinion, when you search religions, if you hear in the back of your mind "that's common sense" then write that point down because that's what religion is: what is common sense to you.

Anyway, I can go on and on. Basically, spread out your searches, make sure (in my opinion), the religions you're interested in are common sense to you. Be aware that what you are not familiar with in a religion you take up would be a challenge but I wouldn't turn away from it because of the challenge. Say, in my case, I am an atheist. In Mahayana Buddhism, there are many gods and goddesses (not to be confused with paganism). More Indian cosmology. I don't turn from it because it doesn't reflect that I don't believe in gods. I embrace the challenge, don't convince myself there are gods, and find the meaning behind why and how gods are used in the sacred texts and sutras I read.

and so on and so forth. .

I do think you understand my point. I hope this helps.

Hmm well for a while my faith did play a strong role in my life and I am still influenced by Christianity which can be seen in some of my habits like praying when I'm scared or to calm myself down among other things.

On the religion topic, I just associate those images with religion. I don't know why exactly, maybe it's a cultural thing? I would have my values regardless of my religion unless I become comfortable enough with making a compromise with it which isn't too often.

 

[OceanSoul]

Peace be with you ... what made you become a Christian?
Is it something to do with where you live, personal study or a combination of things, perhaps?

Why did I become a Christian? Kind of a long story, so here's the short one: I was a troubled person when I was 16 years old and stumbled into a church one day then I left a Christian. I was an outcast and becoming a Christian seemed like the most far out idea for me to be...I lost friends when I converted too. Oh well, life is a rollercoaster. Now here I am.

I also think Christianity provided me with a mostly positive foundation too and I guess I needed a push in the right direction so I got one.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hmm well for a while my faith did play a strong role in my life and I am still influenced by Christianity which can be seen in some of my habits like praying when I'm scared or to calm myself down among other things.

That's certainty understandable. I practiced Catholicism for four years by choice; and, when I go by a Church, think about when I took the sacraments and what they meant, I sign the cross. Once in a blue moon, I'd go to Mass to pay my respects to Christ and my Grandmother, and do the same. I don't take the Eucharist though.

As long as it doesn't confuse you, then I don't see anything wrong with that.

I would have my values regardless of my religion unless I become comfortable enough with making a compromise with it which isn't too often.

A religion that you follow, you wouldn't need to compromise just learn new things and apply concepts you are not familiar with to your everyday life. If it doesn't support or it is not your values, than in my opinion, that religion wouldn't be a good fit (whichever you research that fits my example).

For example, I don't believe in killing for any reason regardless of who, what, when, and how. I couldn't compromise the Christian faith with this value regardless of how they saw death whether it be sacrificial or taking lives to provide land for god's people. So, I think it wouldn't be healthy to compromise your values in the way of changing your values. Basically, your values are shaped around your religion. It's kind of hard to really explain it because I believe ones values should be one's religion.

I'd just keep in mind a lot of things already mentioned in the thread and whatever I said hopefully helped you as well.

 

[OceanSoul]

That's certainty understandable. I practiced Catholicism for four years by choice; and, when I go by a Church, think about when I took the sacraments and what they meant, I sign the cross. Once in a blue moon, I'd go to Mass to pay my respects to Christ and my Grandmother, and do the same. I don't take the Eucharist though.

As long as it doesn't confuse you, then I don't see anything wrong with that.



A religion that you follow, you wouldn't need to compromise just learn new things and apply concepts you are not familiar with to your everyday life. If it doesn't support or it is not your values, than in my opinion, that religion wouldn't be a good fit (whichever you research that fits my example).

For example, I don't believe in killing for any reason regardless of who, what, when, and how. I couldn't compromise the Christian faith with this value regardless of how they saw death whether it be sacrificial or taking lives to provide land for god's people. So, I think it wouldn't be healthy to compromise your values in the way of changing your values. Basically, your values are shaped around your religion. It's kind of hard to really explain it because I believe ones values should be one's religion.

I'd just keep in mind a lot of things already mentioned in the thread and whatever I said hopefully helped you as well.

I get what you mean about compromising, I see that as a double edged sword as in would I be willing to compromise my principles for the sake of my religion? I have disagreements with Christianity (or some other people's idea of it) in some things which can make for unpleasant interactions with some Christians who take the hammer to me every time I feel like I'm trying to do the right thing, they think I should be like a pitbull in order to be a non-fake Christian. So much drama which I have to admit has made me distance myself from them and Christianity too.

I can't see myself compromising on mine. I feel I would have to have a very good reason. Yeah I'd have to see myself as standing on the wrong side of the issue instead.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Why did I become a Christian? Kind of a long story, so here's the short one: I was a troubled person when I was 16 years old and stumbled into a church one day then I left a Christian. I was an outcast and becoming a Christian seemed like the most far out idea for me to be...I lost friends when I converted too. Oh well, life is a rollercoaster. Now here I am.

I also think Christianity provided me with a mostly positive foundation too and I guess I needed a push in the right direction so I got one.

I see .. I had a similar experience myself in becoming a Muslim. When the going gets tough, it's very easy to have doubts or try to distance oneself from the world/religion..
But then I remember what I had (or was) before Almighty God guided me, and realise that I would be the loser upon listening to satan's advice.

I especially have social problems being a 'convert', but friends that lead you astray are not particularly helpful .. that said, it doesn't mean that you should fall out with people, particularly family.

I think you are right about choosing the "right direction" .. Almighty God is the Best of Helpers

 

[OceanSoul]

I see .. I had a similar experience myself in becoming a Muslim. When the going gets tough, it's very easy to have doubts or try to distance oneself from the world/religion..
But then I remember what I had (or was) before Almighty God guided me, and realise that I would be the loser upon listening to satan's advice.

I especially have social problems being a 'convert', but friends that lead you astray are not particularly helpful .. that said, it doesn't mean that you should fall out with people, particularly family.

I think you are right about choosing the "right direction" .. Almighty God is the Best of Helpers

Doubts are very easy to have. Friends who can't accept someone's religion and walks away from them for it isn't a very good one in the first place. It's best to find people who respect your beliefs and accept you, IMO. Golden friends stick by your side and vice versa.

 

[rusra02]

I converted to Christianity when I was 16 years old after having gone through a lot of pain and through which I had the courage to improve my life. I stopped being angry at the world and have been a believer up until a year ago when for whatever reason something broke or maybe it's just me who has. I don't know if it is just a temporary thing due to so much crap coming at me in life.

About a year ago, I was laying on my bed trying to pray when an overwhelming sense of emptiness came over me and I could feel it in my bones. I didn't feel any connection. Nothing hearing me. I tried praying here and there afterwards but I felt it did no good and made zero difference in my life so I stopped, not to mention I started feeling anxious every time I would pray since my expectations would make me feel worse. My family lost someone in recent months and after that I went digging spiritually to figure out why that happened. I no longer call myself a Christian because I struggle too much with the faith and have no reason to.

I have been studying different religions, included deeper into Christianity which has only made me feel even more uncertain and confused not to mention how overwhelming it is too see just how many religions and spiritual paths there are! How does one even begin? I have read up on Buddhism, but that is it.

How do you find spiritual connection in this world with so many religions? What should I do?

I believe true faith is based on accurate knowledge of God and Christ. And the Bible says God's "will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth." (2 Timothy 2:4) IMO, the Bible is the source of accurate knowledge of God. By learning what the Bible really teaches, we can see through the false teachings of self-proclaimed "Christians" and really draw close to God. (James 4:8)

 

[Torah4Yah]

I too was a Christian.. About 7-8 years ago I was told I was going to die. I set out to make sure I knew the truth that if I did die that I would be ok. I grew up southern baptist. This is a form of Christianity that you don't question the bible is 100% the word of God and so on.

You ever wake up and ask yourself why do I do the things that I do? What are the origins of it? Where did this start? Who was recorded doing it first and so on?

Have you looked into how the English bible came to be what it is? The journey it went through to get into your hands the people involved in its translations? Have you looked at the changes, additions made?

You may ask why would someone do this we all know the consequences for corrupting his word?
Power, money, control.

In my opinion the majority of people that have a problem with Christianity wouldn't if Christianity was what it is based off of. In my opinion the God of Christianity is really a monster. Love me or burn forever! But the thing about it is that the Hebrew God that Christianity says it is based on didn't say or teach that at all.

If you are having a problem with Christianity give a look into this and see if when mans corruption is removed if things start making sense.

http://anintroductiontogod.com/An_I...relude-Who_is_Yahowah_What_Does_He_Want.Torah

I'm going to reply to this post with a translation of Isaiah 30:8-9 tells you what will stand as scripture for all time.

 

[Torah4Yah]

I too was a Christian.. About 7-8 years ago I was told I was going to die. I set out to make sure I knew the truth that if I did die that I would be ok. I grew up southern baptist. This is a form of Christianity that you don't question the bible is 100% the word of God and so on.

You ever wake up and ask yourself why do I do the things that I do? What are the origins of it? Where did this start? Who was recorded doing it first and so on?

Have you looked into how the English bible came to be what it is? The journey it went through to get into your hands the people involved in its translations? Have you looked at the changes, additions made?

You may ask why would someone do this we all know the consequences for corrupting his word?
Power, money, control.

In my opinion the majority of people that have a problem with Christianity wouldn't if Christianity was what it is based off of. The God of Christianity is really a monster. Love me or burn forever! But the thing about it is that the Hebrew God that Christianity says it is based on didn't say or teach that at all.

If you are having a problem with Christianity give a look into this and see if when mans corruption is removed if things start making sense.

http://anintroductiontogod.com/An_I...relude-Who_is_Yahowah_What_Does_He_Want.Torah

I'm going to reply to this post with a translation of Isaiah 30:8-9 tells you what will stand as scripture for all time.

Torah,prophets,psalms

 

[LDS]

How do you find spiritual connection in this world with so many religions? What should I do?

OceanSoul, thank you for such an open and honest post.

I'd like to invite you to examine The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS/Mormon) and to read The Book of Mormon and to talk with full-time missionaries of the church.

Request Missionary Visit here: https://www.mormon.org/missionaries

Here is why: The LDS church started with precisely the same question you asked, "How do you find spiritual connection in this world with so many religions? What should I do?"

Your brilliant and faith inspired question is at the core of the start of the LDS faith. You have a keen sense that something is wrong or out of place and it seems impossible to know which church to join. And you hunger and thirst to know the truth, to feel the truth, to feel the Spirit of God. You have that in common with Joseph Smith, who asked the same question you did, and the answer he received from the Father and the Son changed the modern-day Christian landscape forever (see below Joseph's story in his own words).

There is much I want to share with you, but the most important thing I can tell you now is that there is a way for you to to know the truth and feel a deep, spiritual connection to God: The Holy Ghost.

One of the primary purposes of the Holy Ghost is to "… shall teach you all things" John 14:26 .

• Spirit of truth … shall testify of me: John 15:26 .
• Spirit of truth … will guide you into all truth …John 16:13 .
• no man can say … Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost: 1 Cor. 12:
• fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace: Gal. 5:22 .
• Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: Heb. 10:15 .
• know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error: 1 Jn. 4:6 .
• Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth: 1 Jn. 5:6 .
• by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things:Moro. 10:5 . ( Moro. 10:3–5 . )

You can know and feel God's love for you as his daughter. You can feel the embrace of the Savior as your Redeemer. You can feel the "love, joy, peace" that comes only from the Holy Ghost.

How then does one get the Holy Ghost, or more specifically The Gift of the Holy Ghost. One can feel the Holy Ghost but it doesn't stay with a person. That is different from The Gift of the Holy Ghost which is only given to baptized members of Christ's church through the ordinance of the laying on of hands by authorized teachers sent by Christ.

How does one learn of God and his Kingdom on Earth? By those chosen and ordained by Jesus Christ to represent him and his gospel. An example of such a one are missionaries of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which I invite you to ask them to share the gospel message with you so you can feel the Spirit witness to your soul the truth of the message.

• Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings: Isa. 61:1 .
• I will make you fishers of men: Matt. 4:19 .
• gospel … shall be preached in all the world: Matt. 24:14 .
• teach all nations, baptizing them: Matt. 28:19
• preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins: Mark 1:4 .
• 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? how shall they preach, except they be sent: Rom. 10:14-15 .
• ordained and sent forth to preach: D&C 36:5 .
• go forth … preaching my gospel, two by two: D&C 42:6 .
• proclaiming the truth according to the revelations: D&C 75:4 .
• bearing testimony to all the world: D&C 84:61 .
• kept from the truth because they know not where to find it: D&C123:12 .

So the pattern is and always has been: A) God calls prophets & teachers to call people to repentance and believe in Christ, B) repentance of sins, C) baptism by water, D) baptism by fire / the Holy Ghost (born again), E ) endure to the end = saved in the Kingdom of Heaven to live with God forever and ever.


Hands, Laying on of
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/hands-laying-on-of?lang=eng

Holy Ghost, Gift of
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/holy-ghost-gift-of?lang=eng&letter=h


Extracts from the History of Joseph Smith, the Prophet
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1?lang=eng

10 In the midst of this war of words and tumult of opinions, I often said to myself: What is to be done? Who of all these parties are right; or, are they all wrong together? If any one of them be right, which is it, and how shall I know it?

11 While I was laboring under the extreme difficulties caused by the contests of these parties of religionists, I was one day reading theEpistle of James, first chapter and fifth verse, which reads: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

12 Never did any passage of scripture come with more power to the heart of man than this did at this time to mine. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart. I reflected on it again and again, knowing that if any person needed wisdom from God, I did; for how to act I did not know, and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, I would never know; for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible.

13 At length I came to the conclusion that I must either remain indarkness and confusion, or else I must do as James directs, that is, ask of God. I at length came to the determination to “ask of God,” concluding that if he gave wisdom to them that lacked wisdom, and would give liberally, and not upbraid, I might venture.

14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of abeautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.

15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon by some power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.

16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being—just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I sawtwo Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description,standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were allwrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but theirhearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandmentsof men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the powerthereof.”

20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy?


Holy Ghost, Mission of
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/holy-ghost-mission-of?lang=eng&letter=h

 

[jeager106]

@LDS

That was quite a sermon.
Like many sermons very, very, wordy and promoting the L D S.
Who founded the L D S anyway?

Was it that guy rumored to have up to 40 wives and promoted polygamy?

I'm seriously Christian and believe prayer has NO PLACE in our schools.
PARENTS need to be responsible for the spiritual needs of a child.
If parents are not willing or don't see the need of teaching values, morals, spirituality
to their children then I feel that is a failure of the parents and a disservice to the
child.

I teach/taught my kids, ages from 49 to 15, about spirituality, MY beliefs,
and let them reach their own conclusions.
Not ONE of my 4 attend any worship at any church.
My kids will either see the need for spiritual food or they will not.
I'm betting as the get older they, as I did, will come to their own conclusions.
I love my children, grand children and (gulp!) great grand child.
ewwwwwwwwwwwwww. How did that^^^ happen. I'm old!
FIFTEEN!!! How did that happen?

Oh, yeah, I remember. She was 25 years younger than me and saw me coming a long
way off!
My 15 year old is a blessing and his mother is a fine mother.
My 15 year old son's step dad is good to him. It don't get no better than that.

 

[jeager106]

@Torah4Yah

Didja hav'ta post so bold?

Really?

 

[NadiaMoon]

Have you heard of the religion of Filianism? They believe in God the Mother and her Daughter who is Queen of Heaven. Then there is Goddess religion which i am part of.