Faith in Christ is Completely Logical

[Cephus]

Well ... sex with a 12 year old is considered rape in all states except, I believe, Alabama.

Sex without consent is rape regardless and nowhere in the Bible does it show God asking Mary for her consent to be impregnated.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

How do you expect any Christian, who lives by faith, to know that.

Apparently, they can't. They can only claim to know.

However, I ask because:

1.) I don't view faith as a sort of Get Out of Jail Free card when it comes to difficult questions.

2.) The Bible admonishes believers to be ready to explain their faith:

"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect ..." ~ 1 Peter 3:15

Nobody could know that. Savagewind may believe that he is spirit, and that is fine, as that is how he see Him. I think he has a body of flesh and bones based on what Jesus said to Thomas when he asked him to touch him and said does a spirit have flesh and bones, but I do not know that for a surety as I have never seen him.

Faith is what people resort to when they don't have any good reasons for what they believe.

Only if I gain exaltation will I ever know. It is you question that is not only nonsensical but it is a non sequitur. It is not relevant to our salvation.

Your objections are duly noted, but relegated to the wishy-washy limbo of the "that is fine, because that is how you see it" category that you've limned out above. Perhaps another theist will eventually bring something sturdier to the debate? I hope so.

 

[Serenity7855]

Sex without consent is rape regardless and nowhere in the Bible does it show God asking Mary for her consent to be impregnated.

You think that there was a physical act of sex between a God and a mortal being. You think that it would be necessary in an immaculate conception. Do you also need for it to be written down for you that she would have consented giving birth to the soon of God. There are somethings that just do not need to be said because our intellect tells us. Do you write this drivel on your Web page as well. The one that you failed to defend in my last post to you, and then ominously disappeared.

 

[Serenity7855]

Apparently, they can't. They can only claim to know.

However, I ask because:

1.) I don't view faith as a sort of Get Out of Jail Free card when it comes to difficult questions.

2.) The Bible admonishes believers to be ready to explain their faith:

"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect ..." ~ 1 Peter 3:15



Faith is what people resort to when they don't have any good reasons for what they believe.



Your objections are duly noted, but relegated to the wishy-washy limbo of the "that is fine, because that is how you see it" category that you've limned out above. Perhaps another theist will eventually bring something sturdier to the debate? I hope so.

I told the truth. I actually do not know for a surety whether He possess a body of flesh and bones or if He is spirit. I am making an assumption based on my knowledge. More importantly though, it is an irrelevance to my eternal salvation. It is not something that we absolutely need to know. It is fine because savagewind maybe completely correct, but it effects neither of us in our faith.

The verse before this speaks of the attitude of atheists.

1 Peter 3: 14-15

14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

 

[NulliuSINverba]

The verse before this speaks of the attitude of atheists.

1 Peter 3: 14-15

14 But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed. AND DO NOT FEAR THEIR INTIMIDATION, AND DO NOT BE TROUBLED,

15 But sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;

I see that. You'll note that (despite verse 14) verse 15 still admonishes believers to explain themselves.

 

[Serenity7855]

I see that. You'll note that (despite verse 14) verse 15 still admonishes believers to explain themselves.

Yes, and if asked I do my level best to give an informed and accurate response.

 

[Serenity7855]

Sex without consent is rape regardless and nowhere in the Bible does it show God asking Mary for her consent to be impregnated.

Oh, whilst we are here, let me clarify for you what this thread is all about. When you write ".I’ve got one guy who is desperately trying to tell me that there is a plan for redemption" you bear false witness. I actually believe that a plan of salvation exists, however, I do not expect a non-believer to accept it exists. Now atheists are here to question the beliefs of theists, therefore, they should have sufficient knowledge of theism in order to do that. If they have then they know that we believe in a Plan of Redemption, it is fundamental to Christianity. I am asking them to scrutinise that plan, that they need to be aware of in order to debate with christians, and falsify it. I use scripture to demonstrate what I believe and not as evidence, that too is a misrepresentation.

 

[Cephus]

You think that there was a physical act of sex between a God and a mortal being. You think that it would be necessary in an immaculate conception. Do you also need for it to be written down for you that she would have consented giving birth to the soon of God. There are somethings that just do not need to be said because our intellect tells us. Do you write this drivel on your Web page as well. The one that you failed to defend in my last post to you, and then ominously disappeared.

If she wasn't asked, she couldn't have given consent. There is no record of her being asked, hence we have to assume she wasn't, especially because the narrative doesn't present it that way. You just don't like the fact that your God is a rapist.

 

[Cephus]

Oh, whilst we are here, let me clarify for you what this thread is all about. When you write ".I’ve got one guy who is desperately trying to tell me that there is a plan for redemption" you bear false witness. I actually believe that a plan of salvation exists, however, I do not expect a non-believer to accept it exists. Now atheists are here to question the beliefs of theists, therefore, they should have sufficient knowledge of theism in order to do that. If they have then they know that we believe in a Plan of Redemption, it is fundamental to Christianity. I am asking them to scrutinise that plan, that they need to be aware of in order to debate with christians, and falsify it. I use scripture to demonstrate what I believe and not as evidence, that too is a misrepresentation.

I don't care what you believe, I care what you can prove. You can't prove a damn thing. All your faith in the world doesn't prove that the object of your faith is actually so. You don't seem to be able to get that through your head.

 

[Serenity7855]

I don't care what you believe, I care what you can prove. You can't prove a damn thing. All your faith in the world doesn't prove that the object of your faith is actually so. You don't seem to be able to get that through your head.

Who on this magnificent earth do you think I need to prove my faith to. Seriously, who? I know, and that is the only person who I need to satisfy. I couldn't care less whether you believe me or not, however, as much as you besmirch and sully Christianity I will defend it. As long as you use a blog to peddle your lies and duplicity I will expose you. The worst kinds of atheists is always the failed Christians because they have an embedded bitterness and hatred towards God.

 

[Serenity7855]

If she wasn't asked, she couldn't have given consent. There is no record of her being asked, hence we have to assume she wasn't, especially because the narrative doesn't present it that way. You just don't like the fact that your God is a rapist.

How do you know that she wasn't asked? If you had of succeeded in your failed attempts to become a Christian, then you could have asked the Holy Ghost. As it stands you have no evidence to suggest that she was not asked. Not every word spoken by God is written down in the bible, especially those that are irrelevant and should be readily assumed by us converted Christians. Now, if you had a modicum of knowledge regarding the character of God you would know that he is incapable of physically or spiritually committing the malicious sin of rape, therefore, your statement, which has all to obviously been made to provoke and agitate Christians, which is, in itself, an indicator of the dreadful moral standards you must possess, is like water off a ducks back. Why? because I have witnessed exactly the same vengeful slurs against God from your fellow failed Christians so i know your awful anti-christian agenda.

 

[Sapiens]

How do you know that she wasn't asked? If you had of succeeded in your failed attempts to become a Christian, then you could have asked the Holy Ghost. As it stands you have no evidence to suggest that she was not asked. Not every word spoken by God is written down in the bible, especially those that are irrelevant and should be readily assumed by us converted Christians. Now, if you had a modicum of knowledge regarding the character of God you would know that he is incapable of physically or spiritually committing the malicious sin of rape, therefore, your statement, which has all to obviously been made to provoke and agitate Christians, which is, in itself, an indicator of the dreadful moral standards you must possess, is like water off a ducks back. Why? because I have witnessed exactly the same vengeful slurs against God from your fellow failed Christians so i know your awful anti-christian agenda.

Sorry, but we, as civilized humans, define knocking up 12 year olds as statutory rape everywhere except in Alabama, even if the victim wants to be pregnant.

 

[Cephus]

Who on this magnificent earth do you think I need to prove my faith to. Seriously, who? I know, and that is the only person who I need to satisfy. I couldn't care less whether you believe me or not, however, as much as you besmirch and sully Christianity I will defend it. As long as you use a blog to peddle your lies and duplicity I will expose you. The worst kinds of atheists is always the failed Christians because they have an embedded bitterness and hatred towards God.

I don't know, you seem to feel you have to come on these forums and proclaim it repeatedly and talk about it endlessly, seems you want to show it off or you wouldn't bother being here. Go figure.

 

[Cephus]

How do you know that she wasn't asked? If you had of succeeded in your failed attempts to become a Christian, then you could have asked the Holy Ghost. As it stands you have no evidence to suggest that she was not asked. Not every word spoken by God is written down in the bible, especially those that are irrelevant and should be readily assumed by us converted Christians. Now, if you had a modicum of knowledge regarding the character of God you would know that he is incapable of physically or spiritually committing the malicious sin of rape, therefore, your statement, which has all to obviously been made to provoke and agitate Christians, which is, in itself, an indicator of the dreadful moral standards you must possess, is like water off a ducks back. Why? because I have witnessed exactly the same vengeful slurs against God from your fellow failed Christians so i know your awful anti-christian agenda.

You can only go by what is actually written in the text. If it wasn't written, there's no reason to think it happened and certainly, when Mary found out that she was going to have a child, she was surprised, a sure indicator that there had been no discussion beforehand.

I'd say the evidence is on my side and you, as usual, are just making unwarranted assertions.

 

[Serenity7855]

You can only go by what is actually written in the text. If it wasn't written, there's no reason to think it happened and certainly, when Mary found out that she was going to have a child, she was surprised, a sure indicator that there had been no discussion beforehand.

I'd say the evidence is on my side and you, as usual, are just making unwarranted assertions.

One thing that can be considered a certainty is that you are intellectually redundant with respect to your knowledge of the scriptures, which is probably one reason why you failed so miserably at it. You think you know, and even think that you can prove, a book of moral commandments, to be wrong, which is another reason for your bitter demise, but your bombastic ranting not only displays your lack of knowledge of the scriptures, but even your total misconception of that scintilla that you do possess. You have my sympathy at not making the grade but your taunting against something you know little to nothing about is making that initial failure embarrassingly awkward. If you cannot cut it then at least be a man about it and walk away. Your need to proactively try to take others with you makes you look like an antichrist. That is, someone who openly fights against the true teachings of the Saviour. Hang on, that is what you do.

God is perfect. It would be imperfect to cause the pregnancy of Mary without her permission, although that miracle was undertaken by the Holy Ghost and not God, Luke 1:35 "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God," so your statement that God is a rapist is grossly inaccurate, according to the scriptures, you give the impression that you think you know. However, there are some things that do not need to be written for the more intelligent to understand. That is not a problem here though as Mary clearly gives her concent in scriptures for all generations to read.

Luke 1:38

38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

Just another example of how little you know about scripture and what it says. You need to either throw in the white towel or at least read the Bible for comprehension. It is so annoying to see people talking about a subject that they know little to nothing about allowing themselves to be ensnared in the truth.

 

[Serenity7855]

I don't know, you seem to feel you have to come on these forums and proclaim it repeatedly and talk about it endlessly, seems you want to show it off or you wouldn't bother being here. Go figure.

I come on these forums to correct inaccuracies that individuals like you peddle to the unsuspecting reader. My efforts to stop the rot of mindless atheism born out of hatred for honesty and truth and a genuine incredulousness of a moral code of ethics. That is really what atheism is. You see, the entire Plan of Redemption is just a means by which we should live our lives to be happy and then rewarded with exaltation. Anyone who objects to it objects to moral accountability. Object to the flood and you object to curtailing awful, debortuous sin. The characters in the play are necessary to chronicle the fable , however, it is the story line narrative that counts. The storyline in moral accountability. It is not whether the flood took place or not, it is the principle of cause and effect that is being taught.

 

[Cephus]

I come on these forums to correct inaccuracies that individuals like you peddle to the unsuspecting reader. My efforts to stop the rot of mindless atheism born out of hatred for honesty and truth and a genuine incredulousness of a moral code of ethics. That is really what atheism is. You see, the entire Plan of Redemption is just a means by which we should live our lives to be happy and then rewarded with exaltation. Anyone who objects to it objects to moral accountability. Object to the flood and you object to curtailing awful, debortuous sin. The characters in the play are necessary to chronicle the fable , however, it is the story line narrative that counts. The storyline in moral accountability. It is not whether the flood took place or not, it is the principle of cause and effect that is being taught.

Then you belong in the DISCUSSION forums. This is a DEBATE forum. It means you have to back up your claims with more than "I believe it, it has to be true!" Maybe nobody ever explained the difference between the two kinds of forums.

 

[Serenity7855]

Then you belong in the DISCUSSION forums. This is a DEBATE forum. It means you have to back up your claims with more than "I believe it, it has to be true!" Maybe nobody ever explained the difference between the two kinds of forums.

You are here which means that I am in the right place.

 

[Cephus]

You are here which means that I am in the right place.

You're certainly not convincing anyone of anything except that you have no clue how to think rationally.

 

[Serenity7855]

You're certainly not convincing anyone of anything except that you have no clue how to think rationally.

You should take your own advice and cease debating with theists. The picture that you paint of yourself is covered in smudges. If you do not like the bible then stop reading it and mind your own business. It is not your business to critique what we believe. I am not interfering in your right not to believe, knock yourself out, so do us the same honour and mind your own business and find something more constructive to do with your time. You will not move me an inch on my belief, or any other converted Christian, so go do some charity work that may help others instead of trying to exalt yourself on the backs of theists.