Faith is being sure...

[Jayhawker Soule]

My post is "simple confused"? Since you, even with your boasting, can't write a simple sentence correctly and your understanding of what the Bible clearly says being deficient, I will not discuss this with you any further. You are now on "ignore".

​

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why should I reply to negativity and absurdity?

It's up to you, of course, but it seems like absurdity is kind of your thing.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Why should I reply to negativity and absurdity?

I nominate this to be the most ironic post in the thread.

 

[Nakosis]

Sure. Trust is verified through experience, is it not? But we need some, as yet unverified faith, prior to the experience. When a parent says to a child, “Jump, I’ll catch you”, the child has to take a leap of faith, to verify trust in the parent.

Yes, then it is no longer a matter of faith.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes, then it is no longer a matter of faith.

That depends what we mean by "faith."

Trust and loyalty ("faithfulness") are both prefectly valid senses of the word. Neither one is negated by evidence.

It's only recently that Christians have tried to reinterpret the word to only mean "unsupported belief."

 

[Comradio251]

Isn't it about time that some people stopped challenging a person's faith by applying the principle of "proof"?

Yes, faith has nothing to do with proof. Just look at the very definition of faith. It's simply 'hoping' that you hold the truth to something even though you might not. Does that sound like proof? No.

Dictionary.com
Faith:
Belief that is not based on proof:He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.

 

[McBell]

Faith is worse than trust. It convinces people of things that are not so.

Worse yet, it allows for the justification of anything

 

[Nakosis]

That depends what we mean by "faith."

Trust and loyalty ("faithfulness") are both prefectly valid senses of the word. Neither one is negated by evidence.

It's only recently that Christians have tried to reinterpret the word to only mean "unsupported belief."

I'm referring to the definition of faith in the Bible.
That's been around for a couple of thousand years.

Sure you can understand faith to be a synonym of trust but that's usually not very helpful in dealing with Christian theology.
How can you trust a parent that is never physically around?

Faith OTOH requires nothing but faith.

 

[idea]

...: "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

con·vic·tion
noun
1.
a formal declaration that someone is guilty of a criminal offense, made by the verdict of a jury or the decision of a judge in a court of law.
"she had a previous conviction for a similar offense"
Similar:
sentence
judgment
Opposite:
acquittal
2.
a firmly held belief or opinion.
"she takes pride in stating her political convictions"



Nothing should be "firmly held" which is not "firm".

 

[Soandso]

Isn't it about time that some people stopped challenging a person's faith by applying the principle of "proof"?

Eh... It's too late for that. With the Advent of the internet and access to the world's knowledge at one's fingertips it's far too easy to contrast and compare - so people will do what people will do. I'd expect more of the same as awareness is amplified over time and people get curious

 

[jimb]

It's up to you, of course, but it seems like absurdity is kind of your thing.

It isn't. Your constant negativity shows where you are spiritually. If you can't have a reasonable discussion, you will be on "ignore".

 

[jimb]

Faith is worse than trust. It convinces people of things that are not so.

Yet the Bible says that faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you don't see. Clearly, you don't understand Biblical faith.

 

[jimb]

Eh... It's too late for that. With the Advent of the internet and access to the world's knowledge at one's fingertips it's far too easy to contrast and compare - so people will do what people will do. I'd expect more of the same as awareness is amplified over time and people get curious

Faith, of course, doesn't need proof. Just the opposite.

 

[Soandso]

Sure. Trust is verified through experience, is it not? But we need some, as yet unverified faith, prior to the experience. When a parent says to a child, “Jump, I’ll catch you”, the child has to take a leap of faith, to verify trust in the parent.

Even trust should require evidence. Imagine if the person saying "Jump, I'll catch you" was a bad parent who was also a practical joker. The child might think twice before jumping... The evidence that the father wouldn't let the child just eat dirt isn't there. Faith doesn't really play a part in that example, imo

 

[jimb]

It's up to you, of course, but it seems like absurdity is kind of your thing.

It isn't. You're on "ignore".

 

[Soandso]

Faith, of course, doesn't need proof. Just the opposite.

What's the difference between faith in the absence of evidence and credulousness?

 

[jimb]

I nominate this to be the most ironic post in the thread.

I have better things to do with my time than discuss things with people who just want to insult others. Since I can't put you on "ignore" I will just ignore your negativity.

 

[McBell]

I'm referring to the definition of faith in the Bible.
That's been around for a couple of thousand years.

Personally, I prefer the Remedy translation.
At least for this particular verse...

Hebrews 11:1

(Remedy)
Now, trust comes from our understanding with God, because he has demonstrated that he is trustworthy to fulfill what he has promised. And by trusting in him—the one who made the promises—we are confident of what we hope for, and are sure of what we do not yet see.​

​

(Murdock)
Now faith is the persuasion of the things that are in hope, as if they were in act; and it is the manifestness of the things not seen.​

​

(TS2009)
And belief is the substance of what is expected, the proof of what is not seen.​

​

(TPT)
Now faith brings our hopes into reality and becomes the foundation needed to acquire the things we long for. It is all the evidence required to prove what is still unseen.​

​

​

Spoiler

(BBE)
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the sign that the things not seen are true.​

​

(Bishops)
Fayth is the grounde of thynges hoped for, the euidence of thynges not seene.​

​

(BSB)
Now faith is the assurance of what we hope for and the certainty of what we do not see.​

​

(Cepher)
NOW faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.​

​

(CEV)
Faith makes us sure of what we hope for and gives us proof of what we cannot see.​

​

(Darby)
Now faith is the substantiating of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.​

​

(DRB)
Now, faith is the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of things that appear not.​

​

(ERV)
Faith is what makes real the things we hope for. It is proof of what we cannot see.​

​

(Geneva)
Nowe faith is the ground of things, which are hoped for, and the euidence of things which are not seene.​

​

(GNB)
To have faith is to be sure of the things we hope for, to be certain of the things we cannot see.​

​

(GW)​

Faith assures us of things we expect and convinces us of the existence of things we cannot see.​

​

(KJV)
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.​

​

(LEB)
Now faith is the realization of what is hoped for, the proof of things not seen.​

​

(NET)
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for, being convinced of what we do not see.​

​

(WEB)
Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, proof of things not seen.​

​

(WEBA)
Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, proof of things not seen.​

​

(Webster)
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.​

​

(Weymouth)
Now faith is a well-grounded assurance of that for which we hope, and a conviction of the reality of things which we do not see.​

​

(Williams)
Now faith is the assurance of the things we hope for, the proof of the reality of the things we cannot see.​

​

(YLT)
And faith is of things hoped for a confidence, of matters not seen a conviction,​

​

​

 

[jimb]

That depends what we mean by "faith."

Trust and loyalty ("faithfulness") are both prefectly valid senses of the word. Neither one is negated by evidence.

It's only recently that Christians have tried to reinterpret the word to only mean "unsupported belief."

There is no reinterpretation of anything. FYI, the author of Hebrews, where one finds the text "faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you don't see" was written thousands of years ago.

 

[jimb]

Personally, I prefer the Remedy translation.
At least for this particular verse...

Hebrews 11:1

(Remedy)​

Now, trust comes from our understanding with God, because he has demonstrated that he is trustworthy to fulfill what he has promised. And by trusting in him—the one who made the promises—we are confident of what we hope for, and are sure of what we do not yet see.​

​

(Murdock)​

Now faith is the persuasion of the things that are in hope, as if they were in act; and it is the manifestness of the things not seen.​

​

(TS2009)​

And belief is the substance of what is expected, the proof of what is not seen.​

​

(TPT)​

Now faith brings our hopes into reality and becomes the foundation needed to acquire the things we long for. It is all the evidence required to prove what is still unseen.​

​

​

Spoiler

(BBE)​

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the sign that the things not seen are true.​

​

(Bishops)​

Fayth is the grounde of thynges hoped for, the euidence of thynges not seene.​

​

(BSB)​

Now faith is the assurance of what we hope for and the certainty of what we do not see.​

​

(Cepher)​

NOW faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.​

​

(CEV)​

Faith makes us sure of what we hope for and gives us proof of what we cannot see.​

​

(Darby)​

Now faith is the substantiating of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.​

​

(DRB)​

Now, faith is the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of things that appear not.​

​

(ERV)​

Faith is what makes real the things we hope for. It is proof of what we cannot see.​

​

(Geneva)​

Nowe faith is the ground of things, which are hoped for, and the euidence of things which are not seene.​

​

(GNB)​

To have faith is to be sure of the things we hope for, to be certain of the things we cannot see.​

​

(GW)​

Faith assures us of things we expect and convinces us of the existence of things we cannot see.​

​

(KJV)​

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.​

​

(LEB)​

Now faith is the realization of what is hoped for, the proof of things not seen.​

​

(NET)​

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for, being convinced of what we do not see.​

​

(WEB)​

Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, proof of things not seen.​

​

(WEBA)​

Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, proof of things not seen.​

​

(Webster)​

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.​

​

(Weymouth)​

Now faith is a well-grounded assurance of that for which we hope, and a conviction of the reality of things which we do not see.​

​

(Williams)​

Now faith is the assurance of the things we hope for, the proof of the reality of the things we cannot see.​

​

(YLT)​

And faith is of things hoped for a confidence, of matters not seen a conviction,​

​

​

I have never heard of the Remedy translation. However, I will look into it, as I am always interested in different translations of God's word.