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Faith

What is Faith other then a term created to make people believe in something that cannot be proven.

Then the term is used to bring guilt upon one who intelligently questions that which is beyond the five senses and does not feel the Faith.

Feeling little faith one then fears asking questions because they may be ridiculed for not yet believing certain stories.

Faith forces compliance and subjugation to something rather then a search for facts.

A man may hold a stone in his hand, he refuses to open the hand and insists you have faith he holds it.

Unless he opens the hand why believe.

I have to agree that the existing faith paradigm of religion is intellectually dishonest from square one. And was probably only contrived in the absence of a more profound 'truth' . Of course the early church didn't have the benefit of our Enlightenment thinking and empirical model, relying upon Greek philosophy for its logic. But two competing conceptions on the nature of reality are the very cause of the continuing tensions and debates between science and religion. What is interesting to me is that a Faith that conforms to the modern empirical model of testable truth does not contradict scripture. Only religious tradition. Personally I would expect nothing less from God!
The Final Freedoms
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
If you have ever bought an item from a reputable company and then waited for it to be delivered, you have exercised that type of faith. The sales receipt in your hand gave you reason for faith in the company from which you bought the item. In a sense, that receipt was your title deed, your guarantee that you would receive what you purchased. If you had lost the receipt or had thrown it away, you would have lost the proof of your claim of ownership. Similarly, those who have faith that God will fulfill his promises are guaranteed to receive what they hope for. On the other hand, those who do not have faith, or who lose it, are not entitled to receive the things God promises.—James 1:5-8.
In that sort of faith, there's generally plenty of evidence: you have lots of goods you've received from the company in the past, you can drive by their warehouse and see the company's logo displayed prominently, you'll pass the company's trucks as they deliver other people's orders, etc. You actually have a receipt or a sales contract.

Where the faith comes in is where you trust that the company will behave towards you the way it has behaved in the past.

It isn't a matter of faith that the company is a real thing: that's self-evident. The faith is only with regard to the future behaviour of a thing that everybody agrees exists and has behaved in a certain way so far.

Do you think that faith in God is like (or can be like) this sort of faith? The customer can point to the warehouse and say "see - that's where my order will be processed" or to a truck and say "see - that truck is like the one that will deliver my order." Can you do that with God?

The second expression at Hebrews 11:1, translated “evident demonstration,” carries the idea of producing evidence that contradicts that which only appears to be factual. For instance, the sun appears to revolve around the earth—rising in the east, moving through the sky, and setting in the west. However, evidence from astronomy and mathematics reveals that the earth is not the center of the solar system. Once you become familiar with that evidence and accept it as true, you have faith that the earth revolves around the sun—despite what your eyes tell you. Your faith is not blind. On the contrary, it gives you the ability to see things as they really are, not merely as they seem to be."
This description of faith seems to contradict the first definition you gave:

- by your first definition: faith is trust that what is self-evidently true now will continue to be true in the future.

-by your second definition: faith is the realization that what seems self-evidently true is actually false.

And I notice that your second definition also refers to evidence for belief... so where is it?
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm a little confused here. Since you seem to have things all figured out for yourself, @Ubon, what are you asking us about anything for? What is your intent with this thread?
 

Ubon

Member
I'm a little confused here. Since you seem to have things all figured out for yourself, @Ubon, what are you asking us about anything for? What is your intent with this thread?

I have no knowledge of Gods existence as i have not seen him, he may well exist.

I am trying to understand how faith even exists, how it came about.

I have nothing figured out as i have not died yet but one thing that is beoming clear is faith seems to comfort those without proof, and that is making one feel good but destroys critical thinking.
 

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
I have no knowledge of Gods existence as i have not seen him, he may well exist.

I am trying to understand how faith even exists, how it came about.

I have nothing figured out as i have not died yet but one thing that is beoming clear is faith seems to comfort those without proof, and that is making one feel good but destroys critical thinking.

The idea of critical thinking seems to comfort some without faith.
 
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