Faith

[Ceridwen018]

There are many mysteries in every religion-- things that cannot be readily explained or understood, even by those who mark their lives in study of them. These 'mysteries' are accepted by the religious everywhere on account of an interesting body of 'evidence' known as 'faith'.

What is 'faith', exactly?

How reliable is this 'faith'.

Are you truly comfortable with basing your entire beliefs and therefore sometiomes life on something which by definition is categorized as not more than a hunch? Why?

 

[tigrers99]

To believe that biogenesis could actually have taken place....Now THAT requires a MIRACULOUS FAITH! To believe that a bird could hatch from a lizard egg....THAT also requires a MIRACULOUS FAITH!

 

[Ceridwen018]

Indeed it does! What is your opinion of this 'miraculous faith'?

 

[Lightkeeper]

There are many things we do not know. We have to have faith minute by minute in all facets of our life. Everything we do requires a certain amount of faith, because we are constantly living with the unknown. We don't really know how anything is going to turn out. Faith is nothing without action and action is nothing without faith. Some have faith in God to help them through the constant unknown. The dark woods are not so scary if you walk through them with a partner.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Here's what I hear from believers: "we can't be 100% certain about things, therefore we can safely abandon reason and pretend as if we are 100% certain about the things we want to be certain". Ironically, their argument against science (that we can never be certain) is actually a good argument against faith (you can't believe something is true no matter what, if you admit nothing is certain).

I think we need to use our rationale to figure out how likely things are to be true, and make temporary assumptions based on this. That's why scientists don't have 'beliefs', they have 'theories' which they accept as true because they are useful explainations until more knowledge becomes available. They know their theories could later be disproven, and that's the beauty of it--no unwavering, unquestioning faith to hinder progress and stop the advance of knowledge. Go science!

 

[Lightkeeper]

Here's what I hear from believers: "we can't be 100% certain about things, therefore we can safely abandon reason and pretend as if we are 100% certain about the things we want to be certain". Ironically, their argument against science (that we can never be certain) is actually a good argument against faith (you can't believe something is true no matter what, if you admit nothing is certain).

I think we need to use our rationale to figure out how likely things are to be true, and make temporary assumptions based on this. That's why scientists don't have 'beliefs', they have 'theories' which they accept as true because they are useful explainations until more knowledge becomes available. They know their theories could later be disproven, and that's the beauty of it--no unwavering, unquestioning faith to hinder progress and stop the advance of knowledge. Go science!

A temporary assumption is an act of faith.

 

[Ceridwen018]

In a sense, yes, but a temporary scientific assumption which is backed up by observable evidence is much more credible than a permanent religious assumption which is backed up by the bible.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I couldn't have said it better Ceridwen.

 

[Lightkeeper]

If people are growing religion is a temporary assumption.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

In that case, Lightkeeper, let me pose a question: is your belief in God a temporary assumption?

If it is, it is quite different from the kind of belief that many other religious people have (and I do not doubt that you are very different from 'most' religious people, don't get me wrong).

 

[Lightkeeper]

I place no attributes on God.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Me neither! :lol:

 

[Brien]

Personally, I believe God must have attributes. In the law of identity, Aristotle showed that everything must have an identity, the concept that refers to the aspects of something, or its particularities and specific characteristics. I have identity, that is specific characteristics, therefore I exist. If God has no identity how can he exist? What purpose does it serve to believe in a shapeless void?

Others say that the law of identity is a physical law that only applies to the physical universe. Let me know what you think.

 

[Lightkeeper]

Everything is constantly changing. Everything is a temporary assumption.

 

[Lightkeeper]

Me neither! :lol:

I would think you would have to apply attributes to something in order to reject it. :lol:

 

[Mr Spinkles]

And I would think you would have to apply attributes to something in order to believe in it. Looks like we were both wrong! :mrgreen:

 

[LCMS Sprecher]

Faith is a gift freely given to us via the Holy Spirit found in Holy Scripture. While all are offered faith when they hear and read the Word of God, some can refuse it so not all have faith.

 

[Lightkeeper]

And I would think you would have to apply attributes to something in order to believe in it. Looks like we were both wrong! :mrgreen:

I disagree. You have made assumptions of what I believe.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The only assumption I made was that you believe in God, whatever your definition. Please accept my apologies if I was wrong on this.

 

[Brien]

Everything is constantly changing. Everything is a temporary assumption.

If this is true why try to learn anything? I believe that while many of the principles in both science and religion may be incorrect, progress has brought us closer to an ultimate truth. And if there is no truth how can there be purpose?

Secondly, an assumtion is something taken for granted or accepted as true without proof. Science does not do this. It is the study of the physical universe through collection and analysis of empirical data.