False Victimhood

[Audie]

However did a small, non-white, non-Citizen, non-Christian, girl manage to avoid the culture of victimhood?
Maybe because your parents didn't teach you to be a victim?
Tom

I did the "refuse to be a victim". I have always been
combative, all that made me more so.

I was way ahead of the other kids, academically.

And, while I never got past uttermost beginner,
none of the other girls knew the least thing
about, you know, "kung fu".


Ms Congeniality I was not .

 

[columbus]

I did the "refuse to be a victim". I have always been
combative, all that made me more so.

I was way ahead of the other kids, academically.

And, while I never got past uttermost beginner,
none of the other girls knew the least thing
about, you know, "kung fu".


Ms Congeniality I was not .

Whatever made @Revoltingest and me think we could teach you anything?
Prolly white male privilege
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

True fact that, though I guess I got through anyway.

Hard work, smarts, & batting those eyelashes can get one far.
(I know.)

 

[Revoltingest]

Whatever made @Revoltingest and me think we could teach you anything?
Prolly white male privilege
Tom

What would I teach her that would be of any use?

 

[Audie]

Whatever made @Revoltingest and me think we could teach you anything?
Prolly white male privilege
Tom

WSIC-
white saviour industrial complex

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Gain what perspective?

The perspective that it wasn't "black people" that victimized you, it was THOSE individuals that did it.

I'm going by my own experiences being picked on by black kids in school for being mixed and liking "white people music" (as they put it), a black teacher trying to tell my mom how to take care of me and some of my black relatives violently attacking my mom while yelling racial slurs at her. That's just what I went through. Obviously I'm not saying all black people are like that or all white people or whatever.

I'm not challenging that, but it doesn't change the fact that it wasn't black people that did it, it was THOSE people that did that. Going back to your post:

there are a lot of black people who are racist against and hateful towards white people and that can lead to harassment, asault or worse.

True. But that is true for a lot of people but your pain and experiences like mine aren't universal components that ought to apply to everyone.

That's why I reject the social justice definition of racism which says that only whites can be racist

This is why I reject your premise because you're basing this off your experiences as if this is the true definition of racism and it isn't. Racism is racism regardless who is propagating it, and who is experiencing it. There is no social definition of racism and it is stupid on your part to even conceive of the idea that there is some sort of attachment or emphasis to the definition of racism.

That's just what I went through. Obviously I'm not saying all black people are like that or all white people or whatever.

You don't have to say it but rather it seemed to have been implied when you said:

That's why I reject the social justice definition of racism which says that only whites can be racist

When nobody said racism only applies to whites YOU said this.

At the end of the day your experiences do not speak for mine nor do mine yours. I just think your reasoning especially behind the adoption of the view of racism is very poor based on your experiences which doesn't even adequately define nor explain racism in context.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I just think your overreacting. I am in a mixed marriage.

This is irrelevant to the slur that was said.

I'm white, my wife is Asian

Also irrelevant.

By your reaction to the good-natured ribbing between @Audie and @columbus you would no doubt think that both my wife and myself are racist the way we (lovingly I might add) tease each other about our respective heritages.

Whatever relationship they have is their relationship, the fact is as an outsider who is aware of ethnic pejoratives that are inappropriate regardless of the environment, it is just that inappropriate. If we were in a social setting I'd call Columbus out because regardless whether or not his intent was to have a "harmless ribbing" still does not justify the racial slur. That is like someone making "black jokes" among his black friends. Just because that black friend is cool with it doesn't mean all black people are going to be cool with it. At the end of the day you have to put yourself in a professional setting. Do you think by referring to Audie as a "chinkette" is not a reprimandable offense in a work setting? Of course it is and you can get fired or seriously written up. Do you think other people of Asian descent would take the comment "chinkette lightly no because all Asians at least the ones that live in the United States aren't monolith. There are some conscious Asians that are socially aware that certain rtacial epithets still carry historical pain and hurt.

Your marriage is to an Asian woman is irrelevant because what may be acceptable to her or those in your circle is not universal to those outside that. I don't know maybe because I live in California and out here in out melting pot we tend to respect boundaries. I've found myself checking many white guys in public on crossing boundaries all because they think because like you, they feel because either their girlfriend is black or they have black friends that using the "N-word" (with an ER at the end) is somehow going to give them a pass with me or them making racial jokes. It seems some whites are oblivious to the fact that there are some people that aren't cool with that and your ignorance as well as your relationship with your Asian or black friends or whoever is no excuse to use ethnic pejoratives.

I've come to the realization that here on religiousforums.com where majority of people of Caucasian descent come together that these types of remarks get a pass. I don't condone it here nor offline. I personally don't even joke like that because there is always someone in the real world that will take offense to it. If its not universally applicable don't assume that everyone is going to be cool with it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The perspective that it wasn't "black people" that victimized you, it was THOSE individuals that did it.



I'm not challenging that, but it doesn't change the fact that it wasn't black people that did it, it was THOSE people that did that. Going back to your post:



True. But that is true for a lot of people but your pain and experiences like mine aren't universal components that ought to apply to everyone.



This is why I reject your premise because you're basing this off your experiences as if this is the true definition of racism and it isn't. Racism is racism regardless who is propagating it, and who is experiencing it. There is no social definition of racism and it is stupid on your part to even conceive of the idea that there is some sort of attachment or emphasis to the definition of racism.



You don't have to say it but rather it seemed to have been implied when you said:



When nobody said racism only applies to whites YOU said this.

At the end of the day your experiences do not speak for mine.

They were individuals who were black, is that better? And there is a definition of racism that is popular among activists that defines it as "power plus privilege", saying that white people have most of the power and privilege in society and so only they can be racist. Non-whites can be prejudiced but not racist, in this view. What's more, all white people are viewed as complicit in this racism, consciously or otherwise, even if they are themselves anti-racist activists, because they are viewed as benefitting from that privilege. That's the definition of racism I was referring to, that I think is totally wrong. It's mostly pushed by elitist upper-middle class college educated types who live in NYC or other places like that. Ta-Nehisi Coates is a good example of that. To me, they're just race hustlers like Al Sharpton, but use Ivory Tower language to sound sophisticated.

I didn't say anything about your experiences. I was replying to someone else and then you jumped in and tried to lecture me on how I should view my experiences.

 

[David1967]

This is irrelevant to the slur that was said.

No, it's not.

Also irrelevant.

No, it's not. Intent is very relevant.

Your marriage is to an Asian woman is irrelevant

Again, no it's not. Just because you disagree with the statement, does not mean it's irrelevant. Obviously, it is very relevant to me.

 

[David1967]

I've found myself checking many white guys in public on crossing boundaries all because they think because like you, they feel because either their girlfriend is black or they have black friends that using the "N-word" (with an ER at the end) is somehow going to give them a pass with me or them making racial jokes.

This is such a disgusting double standard. For example; How many black comedians have made a very good living making jokes about white people? HMM, I guess that's ok though? Personally, I am not offended by this, I laugh at the jokes.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

They were individuals who were black, is that better?

I don't personally care because its your experiences that affected you, my point was to make you aware.

And there is a definition of racism that is popular among activists that defines it as "power plus privilege."

I think you mean prejudice plus power. For those that aren't aware of the term it is:

"According to this definition, two elements are required in order for racism to exist: racial prejudice, and social power to codify and enforce this prejudice into an entire society."

Source:Prejudice plus power - Wikipedia

saying that white people have most of the power and privilege in society and so only they can be racist.

That is not what the definition said, but that is what many white students of the theory who critiqued it thought it would imply seen in the following:

"The reaction of students to this definition tends to be mixed, with some thinking that it makes sense, and others perceiving it as an unfair redefinition of racism to portray whites in an unfairly negative light."

I believe the definition is trying to intricately define systemic racism as we have historically and currently seen in the United States (as well as everyone else) a system that generally benefits one ethnic group over others. But no, you're wrong as the definition didn't specifically say whites, but naturally it would have that critique by whites cited by psychologist Dr. Beverly Tatum who stated (in the source):

"her white students find it difficult to relate to this definition on a personal level, because they do not perceive themselves either as prejudiced or as having power."

Source:Race, Class, and Gender in the United States: An Integrated Study Macmillan. p. 127.

What's more, all white people are viewed as complicit in this racism, consciously or otherwise, even if they are themselves anti-racist activists, because they are viewed as benefitting from that privilege.

Where is your proof of this? I don't think groups like Black Lives Matter which contains white allies would approve of your assumption (if you cannot provide evidence to support your claim thus me calling it an assumption). There are conscious Caucasians aware enough to understand that there is a system in place that is imbalance and imperfect that is creating an environment of injustice for minorities. But the definition as I listed does not intrinsically demonize all whites that is false. Quite frankly I really don't know where you were going with this in the first place.

That's the definition of racism I was referring to

But that was a definition defined by academic educators. Of course the definition of what true racism is, is going to change based on the arena. Just as you believe you're aware of this definition and what it intrinsically implies I'm aware from my own anecdotal experiences of whites believing that racism isn't racism unless someone is physically hurt, thereby denying (and utterly dismissing) the psychological affect of generational racism and experiences of people of color.

To me, they're just race hustlers like Al Sharpton,

"Race hustlers"

I love when people quote the dribblings of the racist pill popper Bill O'Reilly using terms like race hustlers and the like. Just so you know:

"The term 'race hustlers' is generally used derogatorily to refer to people who call attention to racial inequality. The people who use this term tend to think that racial inequality no longer exists and that anyone who attempts to call attention to it has some other agenda, i.e. getting “free stuff” or “unfair advantage” (such as affirmative action)"-Olivia Cooley

I was replying to someone else and then you jumped in and tried to lecture me on how I should view my experiences.

Sorry. I'm black and when I see people about to make generalizations of that kind especially since I'm of the demographic I like to make friendly corrections on the matter.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Again, no it's not. Just because you disagree with the statement, does not mean it's irrelevant. Obviously, it is very relevant to me.

It is irrelevant because the truth of the matter is your marriage or relationship with an Asian woman or with Asian people does not mean it is okay for you to joke, say, or imply ethnic pejoratives outside of your circle plain and simple. What I'm saying ultimately is everyone is not in your circle therefore you shouldn't assume people are going to be okay with you joking like that. But, If you believe you're right and I tell this to all my white friends who think ignorantly like you on these matters then go up to a group of black folks and use the N-word using that same argument that because you have black friends or because black people say it in rap or because you have black friends and see how far that gets you. I want to see you (or Columbus) in California especially on the east side of Long Beach which has a heavy population of Filipinos and Cambodians to use that same "chinkette" slur all because your wife is Asian I am really interested in you testing out that theory.

You're a grown a**** man who should be smart enough to know that everything you joke about may not be taken lightly by others outside your relationship. Audie doesn't speak for all Asians and just because she is okay with it doesn't mean I'm okay with it. I'm not of Asian descent but regardless I am not okay with any racial slur being said in jest or otherwise.

 

[Quagmire]

The thing is you have to search on 'Drama Queen' but that is not the actual medical description. It is, however, a change due to neurological changes which teen boys don't experience that affects girls and is the basis for the drama queen scenarios they go through while growing up.

"Mothers can gain some comfort in the biological reasons for the onset of emotionally charged arguments and repeated curfew violations..." taken from "https://www.naturalawakeningsmag.com/Natural-Awakenings/May-2013/Teen-Drama-Queens/"

and also..

"Girls and women are more than two times as likely to experience symptoms of depression than boys and men." taken from "https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/having-sex-wanting-intimacy/201404/stop-the-drama-queen-cycle"

So the study found that females are more likely to act like drama queens than males?

I'm going to send the researchers a bunch of links to posts in our forums and suggest they recheck their data.

 

[David1967]

It is irrelevant because the truth of the matter is your marriage or relationship with an Asian woman or with Asian people does not mean it is okay for you to joke, say, or imply ethnic pejoratives outside of your circle plain and simple. What I'm saying ultimately is everyone is not in your circle therefore you shouldn't assume people are going to be okay with you joking like that. But, If you believe you're right and I tell this to all my white friends who think ignorantly like you on these matters then go up to a group of black folks and use the N-word using that same argument that because you have black friends or because black people say it in rap or because you have black friends and see how far that gets you. I want to see you (or Columbus) in California especially on the east side of Long Beach which has a heavy population of Filipinos and Cambodians to use that same "chinkette" slur all because your wife is Asian I am really interested in you testing out that theory.

You're a grown a**** man who should be smart enough to know that everything you joke about may not be taken lightly by others outside your relationship. Audie doesn't speak for all Asians and just because she is okay with it doesn't mean I'm okay with it. I'm not of Asian descent but regardless I am not okay with any racial slur being said in jest or otherwise.

So you want me and @columbus to go to the east side for what reason? Surely you don't wish some sort of violence to happen to us.

And of course, @Audie isn't speaking for all Asians. I do think it's silly though when you are telling her what she should be offended at. Again, intent is a very relevant thing. Do you really think @columbus was being mean?

 

[David1967]

What would I teach her that would be of any use?

IDK, the joys of Haggis?

 

[columbus]

I do think it's silly though when you are telling her what she should be offended at. Again, intent is a very relevant thing. Do you really think @columbus was being mean?

This is the part that gets to me.
@Audie and I perceive each other as individuals. Humans. People with our own unique characteristics.

@EpicBeardMan insists on treating both of us as members of a group. Groups he has already judged and given rules to. That's the main problem with his culture of victimhood and entitlement. He doesn't believe that Audie and I are allowed to behave like competent individuals with a relationship.

I can't help but notice. It's always me that @EpicBeardMan rails on, never Audie. Probably, that because her position as a small brown non-citizen female puts her in a politically correct protected status. My being a gay atheist prolifer doesn't even come close. Because I'm white.

And it's OK for black people to be racist and homophobic, as long as they don't post a forbidden word on RF.
Tom

 

[Audie]

This is the part that gets to me.
@Audie and I perceive each other as individuals. Humans. People with our own unique characteristics.

@EpicBeardMan insists on treating both of us as members of a group. Groups he has already judged and given rules to. That's the main problem with his culture of victimhood and entitlement. He doesn't believe that Audie and I are allowed to behave like competent individuals with a relationship.

I can't help but notice. It's always me that @EpicBeardMan rails on, never Audie. Probably, that because her position as a small brown non-citizen female puts her in a politically correct protected status. My being a gay atheist prolifer doesn't even come close. Because I'm white.

And it's OK for black people to be racist and homophobic, as long as they don't post a forbidden word on RF.
Tom

In fairness to epic, he has been on ig for a long time so
he may have addressed posts to me; that, I do not know.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't personally care because its your experiences that affected you, my point was to make you aware.



I think you mean prejudice plus power. For those that aren't aware of the term it is:

"According to this definition, two elements are required in order for racism to exist: racial prejudice, and social power to codify and enforce this prejudice into an entire society."

Source:Prejudice plus power - Wikipedia



That is not what the definition said, but that is what many white students of the theory who critiqued it thought it would imply seen in the following:

"The reaction of students to this definition tends to be mixed, with some thinking that it makes sense, and others perceiving it as an unfair redefinition of racism to portray whites in an unfairly negative light."

I believe the definition is trying to intricately define systemic racism as we have historically and currently seen in the United States (as well as everyone else) a system that generally benefits one ethnic group over others. But no, you're wrong as the definition didn't specifically say whites, but naturally it would have that critique by whites cited by psychologist Dr. Beverly Tatum who stated (in the source):

"her white students find it difficult to relate to this definition on a personal level, because they do not perceive themselves either as prejudiced or as having power."

Source:Race, Class, and Gender in the United States: An Integrated Study Macmillan. p. 127.



Where is your proof of this? I don't think groups like Black Lives Matter which contains white allies would approve of your assumption (if you cannot provide evidence to support your claim thus me calling it an assumption). There are conscious Caucasians aware enough to understand that there is a system in place that is imbalance and imperfect that is creating an environment of injustice for minorities. But the definition as I listed does not intrinsically demonize all whites that is false. Quite frankly I really don't know where you were going with this in the first place.



But that was a definition defined by academic educators. Of course the definition of what true racism is, is going to change based on the arena. Just as you believe you're aware of this definition and what it intrinsically implies I'm aware from my own anecdotal experiences of whites believing that racism isn't racism unless someone is physically hurt, thereby denying (and utterly dismissing) the psychological affect of generational racism and experiences of people of color.



"Race hustlers"

I love when people quote the dribblings of the racist pill popper Bill O'Reilly using terms like race hustlers and the like. Just so you know:

"The term 'race hustlers' is generally used derogatorily to refer to people who call attention to racial inequality. The people who use this term tend to think that racial inequality no longer exists and that anyone who attempts to call attention to it has some other agenda, i.e. getting “free stuff” or “unfair advantage” (such as affirmative action)"-Olivia Cooley



Sorry. I'm black and when I see people about to make generalizations of that kind especially since I'm of the demographic I like to make friendly corrections on the matter.

Yeah, I meant "prejudice plus power". Anyway, to many of these theorists, all white people are seen as complicit in systemic racism, as you can see in this article: Why White Liberals Are So Unwilling to Recognize Their Own Racism

I wasn't quoting O'Reilly or anyone else. I don't pay attention to him. I do see those types as race hustlers who primarily stir up crap between people. The ADL does similar things. That's not to say that none of their work is useful but they often get so caught up in petty nonsense and harraging people and destroying people's reputations that it has tainted them overall. Esepcially when they have their own histories of bigotry against other groups.

To be quite frank, it seems to me that a lot of them just dislike white people. I was part of a Facebook group for LGBT people of color that I had to leave because of all the racism against whites I encountered, along with people supporting black supremacists like Farrakhan and the NOI (ironic considering their virulent homophobic and transphobia when most murdered trans women in the US are black and it's not white people killing them). I also got tired of being called an "Uncle Tom" and suchlike. It's a common thing I see and they get away with it. If a white person said the same things as them, they'd be branded as a racist neo-Nazi. When a white person brings up racism from non-whites, they are mocked and "white tears" memes come out. This creates a climate of fear. Of course there's going to be a backlash against it.

I don't care if you're black, white, red, polka dotted or whatever. I didn't say anything about all black people or generalize so there was nothing I needed to be corrected on there. You just don't seem to like that I'm bringing up the racism of some blacks at all. I don't care if you agree with what I say or not, but I'm not making it up and you can see it for yourself if you wish. I just don't like double standards.

 

[Revoltingest]

IDK, the joys of Haggis?

The joys of haggis are not taught.
Each person is called or not on their own to its delights.

 

[Audie]

This is the part that gets to me.
@Audie and I perceive each other as individuals. Humans. People with our own unique characteristics.

@EpicBeardMan insists on treating both of us as members of a group. Groups he has already judged and given rules to. That's the main problem with his culture of victimhood and entitlement. He doesn't believe that Audie and I are allowed to behave like competent individuals with a relationship.

I can't help but notice. It's always me that @EpicBeardMan rails on, never Audie. Probably, that because her position as a small brown non-citizen female puts her in a politically correct protected status. My being a gay atheist prolifer doesn't even come close. Because I'm white.

And it's OK for black people to be racist and homophobic, as long as they don't post a forbidden word on RF.
Tom

Was there a "definition" of racism that requires
"Power" as a component?

I suupose that sort of verbal sleight of hand should
suit persons who must frame things to
their advantage

I wonder if Joe Redneck ceases to be redneck
if he steps foot in Navajo country, and his
native counterpart transforms when he leaves
the res? Or what if they find themselves the
only two survivors in a lifeboat?

From my pov the most odious racists are the people
who are always virtue signaling about if only everyone
were as terrif as they are.