Famous Pantheistic inclined people through history

[Ouroboros]

I've read somewhere that Einstein and perhaps even Carl Sagan were pantheists. Heraclitus was for sure, and Zeno of Citium (I think). Who else?

 

[Quintessence]

It's hard to say, in many cases, as the word "pantheism" was not coined until relatively recently (as in the contemporary usage really didn't come about until the 1900s), and we have to ask ourselves how appropriate it is to label people with an identifier that they did not self-identify as. I suppose I've also never really cared about lists of "famous" people because it holds no meaning for me, personally. But I don't mean to sidetrack the thread with this - what support do we have for considering these "famous" people pantheists? I think quotes would be interesting.

 

[lovemuffin]

Einstein's pantheism is a reference to his admiration for Baruch Spinoza, whose "God or nature" is generally considered to be a kind of pantheism, although it is a bit nuanced and debatable. The even more recent "panentheism" might even be closer, but Spinoza's system is in many respects something that should be evaluated on its own, rather than by a label.

 

[Baladas]

Baruch Spinoza was for sure.

I think that it could be argued that many figures throughout history had pantheistic worldviews, especially figures who were known to follow a religion or philosophy that has a significant emphasis on oneness.

 

[Ouroboros]

It's hard to say, in many cases, as the word "pantheism" was not coined until relatively recently

17th century. I'd say it's been around for a bit.

(as in the contemporary usage really didn't come about until the 1900s),

That's possible, but the concept has been around. What should we call them if not pantheist? Should I rename the title to something else? Any suggestions? Would the title "Famous People who had pantheistic views" perhaps be better? Any suggestion welcomed.

and we have to ask ourselves how appropriate it is to label people with an identifier that they did not self-identify as. I suppose I've also never really cared about lists of "famous" people because it holds no meaning for me, personally. But I don't mean to sidetrack the thread with this - what support do we have for considering these "famous" people pantheists? I think quotes would be interesting.

We do have another thread with quotes. But sure, perhaps we should also give quotes or some reference to support that these people held some form of pantheistic views. That's not a bad idea.

And of course, famous people or not, this is just one of the threads that I liked to create. Another one is the history of pantheism, and then perhaps one were different versions of pantheism are listed and shortly explained.

 

[Baladas]

Einstein's pantheism is a reference to his admiration for Baruch Spinoza, whose "God or nature" is generally considered to be a kind of pantheism, although it is a bit nuanced and debatable. The even more recent "panentheism" might even be closer, but Spinoza's system is in many respects something that should be evaluated on its own, rather than by a label.

Jinx

 

[Ouroboros]

Einstein's pantheism is a reference to his admiration for Baruch Spinoza, whose "God or nature" is generally considered to be a kind of pantheism, although it is a bit nuanced and debatable. The even more recent "panentheism" might even be closer, but Spinoza's system is in many respects something that should be evaluated on its own, rather than by a label.

Just as an FYI, this is in a DIR forum, but your post definitely is most appropriate.

There are many different versions of pantheism. Spinoza was one. Einstein was slightly different.

 

[lovemuffin]

I would consider myself a panentheist for sure, and very nearly a pantheist, although I might also suggest I thought the labels were not perfectly adequate I did get a bit ahead of myself, I didn't check where this thread was before replying. If anyone thinks that it is too much of a conflict to label oneself a christian and a panentheist I could bow out with respect...

 

[Ouroboros]

I would consider myself a panentheist for sure, and very nearly a pantheist, although I might also suggest I thought the labels were not perfectly adequate I did get a bit ahead of myself, I didn't check where this thread was before replying. If anyone thinks that it is too much of a conflict to label oneself a christian and a panentheist I could bow out with respect...

To me, it's perfectly acceptable. If you had asked me a few months back, perhaps I hadn't.

I read somewhere that there's a history of sub-culture (heresies?) in Christianity that's been pan(en)theistic. And it's in Judaism as well (Kabbala, has it, I think). Probably there are some in Islam as well.

 

[Quintessence]

17th century. I'd say it's been around for a bit.

Curious thing about that, actually... I went and looked this up in OED before writing that post, and the modern usage really is as recent as 1907. The earlier usages didn't reflect how we use the word today. It was quite interesting. I thought it was older than that too, until I looked it up.

That's possible, but the concept has been around. What should we call them if not pantheist? Should I rename the title to something else? Any suggestions? Would the title "Famous People who had pantheistic views" perhaps be better? Any suggestion welcomed.

That title might be more accurate, yeah! What I like to be aware of is when we're making a retrospective attribution or projection, so we don't confuse the known facts or how that person saw themselves with how we are interpreting that information. For those who didn't explicitly identify as pantheist, it's hard to say whether or not they'd have embraced that label. I suppose I get more concerned about doing this with "famous" people because sometimes the purpose of such lists is less about what is accurate and more a PR spin to make one's own group look good or impressive. That sort of positive PR definitely has its place, especially amongst marginalized or lesser-known social groups. Perhaps since I have a more academic mindset, I like to be able to separate where the objectivity ends and the PR spin begins. That's maybe also why I like to see quotes.

And of course, famous people or not, this is just one of the threads that I liked to create. Another one is the history of pantheism, and then perhaps one were different versions of pantheism are listed and shortly explained.

Now you've got me curious to see if there's a book on the history...

 

[metis]

Einstein's pantheism is a reference to his admiration for Baruch Spinoza, whose "God or nature" is generally considered to be a kind of pantheism, although it is a bit nuanced and debatable. The even more recent "panentheism" might even be closer, but Spinoza's system is in many respects something that should be evaluated on its own, rather than by a label.

Yes, and under my screen name here you'll see that I use the term "naturalism", which I stole from Spinoza as he often substituted "Nature" for "God".

 

[Ouroboros]

Curious thing about that, actually... I went and looked this up in OED before writing that post, and the modern usage really is as recent as 1907. The earlier usages didn't reflect how we use the word today. It was quite interesting. I thought it was older than that too, until I looked it up.

I see. Well, even 1907 is fairly long time ago. It was before I was born, at least a little bit before. I know my kids believe I roamed with the dinosaurs, but, no, not that lucky.

That title might be more accurate, yeah! What I like to be aware of is when we're making a retrospective attribution or projection, so we don't confuse the known facts or how that person saw themselves with how we are interpreting that information. For those who didn't explicitly identify as pantheist, it's hard to say whether or not they'd have embraced that label. I suppose I get more concerned about doing this with "famous" people because sometimes the purpose of such lists is less about what is accurate and more a PR spin to make one's own group look good or impressive. That sort of positive PR definitely has its place, especially amongst marginalized or lesser-known social groups. Perhaps since I have a more academic mindset, I like to be able to separate where the objectivity ends and the PR spin begins. That's maybe also why I like to see quotes.

Very good point. I'm not sure it's for a PR campaign personally, but to at least show people that it's not just some vogue neo-post-modernistic idea that came as a response to Dawkins' books 5 years ago, or something like that. When I get responses on pantheism that suggest that somehow I made it up and that it's just a new fad, it bugs me. It's not new. At least not the idea. The word is newer, but not the concepts.

Now you've got me curious to see if there's a book on the history...

Oh, no! Not another book! I haven't finished the previous ones. I still have to get going with the books about Heraclitus. Just been too busy (posting here is an important part), and painting, and configuring servers and writing scripts, and taking an old sick dog to the vet several times, and on and on... Life, it's what happens to us. Happiness, that's what we make out of it.

 

[Quintessence]

I see. Well, even 1907 is fairly long time ago. It was before I was born, at least a little bit before. I know my kids believe I roamed with the dinosaurs, but, no, not that lucky.

I think of that as being recent in terms of human/cultural development. It's got to be pre-industrial era before I say "long time ago" with respect to human/cultural development. I'm not sure what that says about me.

Very good point. I'm not sure it's for a PR campaign personally, but to at least show people that it's not just some vogue neo-post-modernistic idea that came as a response to Dawkins' books 5 years ago, or something like that. When I get responses on pantheism that suggest that somehow I made it up and that it's just a new fad, it bugs me. It's not new. At least not the idea. The word is newer, but not the concepts.

I suppose it doesn't bug me, because I recognize such stuff for the rubbish it is. The age of something is not indicative of its merit, and what they're doing amounts to a pathetic put-down and closed-minded response. Next time someone pulls that fallacy out at you, ask them how much they like the internet or having a cell phone. When they voice inevitable approval of these things, then remind them that it's just made up and a new fad.

 

[Ouroboros]

I think of that as being recent in terms of human/cultural development. It's got to be pre-industrial era before I say "long time ago" with respect to human/cultural development. I'm not sure what that says about me.

Roaming with the dinosaurs...

I suppose it doesn't bug me, because I recognize such stuff for the rubbish it is. The age of something is not indicative of its merit, and what they're doing amounts to a pathetic put-down and closed-minded response. Next time someone pulls that fallacy out at you, ask them how much they like the internet or having a cell phone. When they voice inevitable approval of these things, then remind them that it's just made up and a new fad.

True.

 

[MD]

Zoroaster....

 

[Ouroboros]

Zoroaster....

Wha... Really? I thought Zoroaster was more of a monotheistic guy.

 

[MD]

Wha... Really? I thought Zoroaster was more of a monotheistic guy.

He was a Panentheist, Ahura Mazda roughly translates to Great Mind. There are several panentheistic themes in the religion.

It in monotheistic in the sense that we worship Ahura Mazda and do good to assist the cosmic battle against Ahriman, but the nature of Ahura Mazda is panentheistic.

Also Brahman is a panentheistic God.

 

[Ouroboros]

He was a Panentheist, Ahura Mazda roughly translates to Great Mind. There are several panentheistic themes in the religion.

It in monotheistic in the sense that we worship Ahura Mazda and do good to assist the cosmic battle against Ahriman, but the nature of Ahura Mazda is panentheistic.

Dang. That's interesting.

Isn't there a bunch of holy scriptures relating to Zoroastrianism though? With stories about hell and such?

Also Brahman is a panentheistic God.

Agree. I've come to see it that way too.

And Taoism. That's actually how I started my slow journey into pantheism.

Interesting thing is that the early Christians called themselves "The Way", and if I understand it right, "Tao" also means the way.