nPeace
Veteran Member
I'm not teaching what you do, so no.Are you really seeking, as your profile says, or are you done seeking?
Anyway, what we are, is not the subject of the thread.
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Father alone is God
- Thread starter Iymus
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I'm not teaching what you do, so no.Are you really seeking, as your profile says, or are you done seeking?
Anyway, what we are, is not the subject of the thread.
A father is Not equal to a son, but sons are equal to brothers. Jesus has brothers. God has No brothers.
Since Adam was also a son of God, sure we are all part of a family as we are descended from Adam - Luke 3:38 .
King James did Not insert the letter 'a' at John 1 but did insert the letter 'a' at Acts of the Apostles 28:6 B.
Only God was ' before ' the beginning because He is from everlasting according to Psalms 90:2 .
Whereas, Jesus was ' in ' the beginning but Not ' before ' the beginning as his Father was ' before ' the beginning.
Thus, as John writes at Revelation 3:14 that pre-human Jesus was the ' beginning ' of the creation by God.
Even the resurrected ascended-to-heaven still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.
I too find that God's spirit is Not a being but a neuter 'it' as mentioned at Numbers 11:17; Numbers 11:25.
Also, the older King James at Romans 8:16; Romans 8:26 also has God's spirit as a neuter 'it'.
So, the newer translations took the liberty to change ' it ' to he or him.
God does send forth His spirit 'it' as per Psalms 104:30
Spirit is also impersonal as found at Ecclesiastes 12:7 as a neuter 'it'.
I find God/god is a title and Not a personal name - Acts of the Apostles 28:6 B.
So, the title God/god is simply meaning as being divine. Divine as in meaning from heaven.
Even from Heaven Satan is called the ' god ' of this world of badness as per 2 Corinthians 4:4.
Since God sent pre-human Jesus from Heaven to Earth for us that makes Jesus as being divine but Not being God.
mailmandan
New Member
I believe the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is God. Matthew 1:23 - Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
John 1:1 clearly says - In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and "the Word was God." John 1:14 says that "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us." I believe this clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh.
In John 8:58, Jesus declared, "I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM." Again, in response, the Jews take up stones in an attempt to stone Jesus (John 8:59). Why would the Jews want to stone Jesus if He didn't say something they believed to be blasphemous, namely, a claim to be God? John repeatedly tells us of the Lord's connection to "I Am". See John: 4:26, 8:24, 8:28, 8:58, and 13:19.
In John 20:27, Jesus said to Thomas - "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
In John 14:28, Jesus said, "..for My Father is greater than I." Yet I believe that Jesus was speaking from His HUMANITY here yet when Jesus said in John 10:30 - "I and My Father are one," I believe He was speaking from His DIVINITY.
Colossians 2:9 (NKJV) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9 - (Amplified) For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God].
Hebrews 1:8 - But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
John 1:1 clearly says - In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and "the Word was God." John 1:14 says that "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us." I believe this clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh.
In John 8:58, Jesus declared, "I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM." Again, in response, the Jews take up stones in an attempt to stone Jesus (John 8:59). Why would the Jews want to stone Jesus if He didn't say something they believed to be blasphemous, namely, a claim to be God? John repeatedly tells us of the Lord's connection to "I Am". See John: 4:26, 8:24, 8:28, 8:58, and 13:19.
In John 20:27, Jesus said to Thomas - "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
In John 14:28, Jesus said, "..for My Father is greater than I." Yet I believe that Jesus was speaking from His HUMANITY here yet when Jesus said in John 10:30 - "I and My Father are one," I believe He was speaking from His DIVINITY.
Colossians 2:9 (NKJV) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9 - (Amplified) For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God].
Hebrews 1:8 - But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
leov
Well-Known Member
actually in 2 Cor 4:4 "god of this world" is ignorant Demiurge, but the title is god nevertheless god is may be any spiritual being from hierarchy, the one modern Christianity forgot about but not in Paul's times.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
The human being life, is and can only just be a human, thinking and telling stories as a consciousness.
So a human said that our consciousness as a human is supported by the conditions Christ.
Teaching was always science involved....for concepts science and the want of a human to force changes upon natural history, what we claim is spiritual...evolution.
Evolution meant that what was once sacrificed, and being destroyed was stopped, changed and then evolved. So we all knew that God was evolution...a changed state...and so claimed as a human that the stories of God were magical.
Yet science said, it was cold deep empty space, the state cold, that allowed evolution to exist. So males taught science as a Mother of God concept, so that no argument against self survival would be inferred, by any argument, which was Satanism.
To claim that God created Satan meant that males wanted God to be changed to become Satan. What Satanism as against the natural Laws of fusion and the evolution history of the science of God O taught....one whole concept O the Earth as one body in one state in one cycle that could not be disputed by anyone.
And yet they did...the believers of Satanism.
Science said that the Law of the Heavenly held fusion related to the volcanic mountain natural history on Earth. Science of the occult/Satanism took the string of information as a direct relationship between the Sun/UFO radiation and conversion....which is named as Satanism.
For the angel of Satan came from the volcanic mountain release of God, from the dead spirit of the evil past....burning of the spirit, meaning gases.
The fall of Satan was the black hole star groups...which is only Sun and universal relative...and not God relative...why it was termed our alienation.
Which meant a lie of the nation......fusion. For SION was the holy body.
When I began to question my spiritual belief as a living evolving human life, I questioned many topics. I also heard and gained visions in dream like states, that proved rationally to be historical. So I then came to understand how our historic brother first gained mind self advice for researched design of science by VISION.
In one vision/I heard female crying and a statement was said about how I brother had murdered our Holy Father, and I was devastated.
So I knew it real, and only science could have achieved that attack on self holy and healthier spiritual life. I then realized that consciously our brother was separated from our Fathers original spiritually aware and higher conscious realization in his life mind.
A human is only ever and has only ever been a human, who once said I am the highest form of God in the concept, creation....as the status consciousness itself, to peruse and understand and tell stories of the history of the Universe if any of you cared to stop and just talk a look at your self, just as a self and just a human.
So a human said that our consciousness as a human is supported by the conditions Christ.
Teaching was always science involved....for concepts science and the want of a human to force changes upon natural history, what we claim is spiritual...evolution.
Evolution meant that what was once sacrificed, and being destroyed was stopped, changed and then evolved. So we all knew that God was evolution...a changed state...and so claimed as a human that the stories of God were magical.
Yet science said, it was cold deep empty space, the state cold, that allowed evolution to exist. So males taught science as a Mother of God concept, so that no argument against self survival would be inferred, by any argument, which was Satanism.
To claim that God created Satan meant that males wanted God to be changed to become Satan. What Satanism as against the natural Laws of fusion and the evolution history of the science of God O taught....one whole concept O the Earth as one body in one state in one cycle that could not be disputed by anyone.
And yet they did...the believers of Satanism.
Science said that the Law of the Heavenly held fusion related to the volcanic mountain natural history on Earth. Science of the occult/Satanism took the string of information as a direct relationship between the Sun/UFO radiation and conversion....which is named as Satanism.
For the angel of Satan came from the volcanic mountain release of God, from the dead spirit of the evil past....burning of the spirit, meaning gases.
The fall of Satan was the black hole star groups...which is only Sun and universal relative...and not God relative...why it was termed our alienation.
Which meant a lie of the nation......fusion. For SION was the holy body.
When I began to question my spiritual belief as a living evolving human life, I questioned many topics. I also heard and gained visions in dream like states, that proved rationally to be historical. So I then came to understand how our historic brother first gained mind self advice for researched design of science by VISION.
In one vision/I heard female crying and a statement was said about how I brother had murdered our Holy Father, and I was devastated.
So I knew it real, and only science could have achieved that attack on self holy and healthier spiritual life. I then realized that consciously our brother was separated from our Fathers original spiritually aware and higher conscious realization in his life mind.
A human is only ever and has only ever been a human, who once said I am the highest form of God in the concept, creation....as the status consciousness itself, to peruse and understand and tell stories of the history of the Universe if any of you cared to stop and just talk a look at your self, just as a self and just a human.
Iymus
Active Member
1. God with us thru his only begotten son declaring him and doing his works. John said no man hath seen God at anytime, in that same Chapter which includes himself.
2. Jesus never said he was literally God even if some may interpret that. Either Jesus said Before Abraham he existed, or Jesus was honoring his God and Father that sent him, or Both in John Chapter 8.
3. Commandments are of God, which are of The Father, because the Father is God.
4. The Father is the Originator of Life; not his only begotten Son.
5. In John Chapter 20 verses 17, 30, and 31 are what is expedient.
6. If one goes back to Colossian Chapter 1 you will see that the Fullness is of The Father.
7. In the end what The Son received from the Father will be going back to him.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
2. Jesus never said he was literally God even if some may interpret that. Either Jesus said Before Abraham he existed, or Jesus was honoring his God and Father that sent him, or Both in John Chapter 8.
3. Commandments are of God, which are of The Father, because the Father is God.
4. The Father is the Originator of Life; not his only begotten Son.
5. In John Chapter 20 verses 17, 30, and 31 are what is expedient.
6. If one goes back to Colossian Chapter 1 you will see that the Fullness is of The Father.
7. In the end what The Son received from the Father will be going back to him.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
The confusion is how we use the word "God". God is not a "person" or individual. The Father is an individual. Jesus is an individual. Both can be refered to as God. We should not pray to "God". We should pray to the Father. Remember the Lord's prayer? Our father....
Iymus
Active Member
1. There is a reason that Jesus said if thou will enter life keep the commanments.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
2. And there is a reason James said trouble not them that are turned to God because Moses of old taught in the Synagogues every sabbath day.
Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
3. Essentially what I am getting at is "Deu 6:4" cannot be circumvented or interpreted to how one wants it to be.
Looking for ways to make Jesus the Most High God is circumventing the love and commandments of God.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
2. And there is a reason James said trouble not them that are turned to God because Moses of old taught in the Synagogues every sabbath day.
Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
3. Essentially what I am getting at is "Deu 6:4" cannot be circumvented or interpreted to how one wants it to be.
Looking for ways to make Jesus the Most High God is circumventing the love and commandments of God.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Genuine modern 'wheat' Christianity is also the 1st-century Christianity of Scripture.
'Christendom' is just a so-called Christianity mostly in name only and are the fake 'weed/tares' Christians of Scripture.
I find at 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 false clergy seat themselves in the ' temple of God ' (Houses of worship) as if they are God when in reality they are -> anti-God.
Yes, I remember the model Our Father prayer as found at Matthew 6:9-10 and at Luke 11:2-4.
In the Lord's prayer ( Jesus prayer to his Father as found at John 17 ) shows Jesus prayed that we be one just as he and his Father are one. Jesus was Not praying we all be God, but be one in unity, goal, purpose, will, belief, etc.
- please see John 17:11; John 17:21-23.
Jesus instructs us as to who we should worship at John 4:23-24.
At Psalms 110 the Tetragrammaton is only applied to the KJV LORD in all Upper-Case letters.
The Tetragrammaton is never applied to Lord Jesus ( Lord in some lower-case letters ).
So, then God/god and LORD/Lord are titles and Not the personal Tetragrammaton name (YHWH)
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Very interesting about 'Satan' ' is the mind set on the flesh'.
Yes, even Satan was drawn out by his own wrong desires as mentioned at James 1:13-15.
Satan's wrong thoughts preceded his wrong actions, and can be the case with us.
Unfaithfulness can make us an enemy of God - James 4:4.
So, instead of displaying the fruitage of wrong fleshy desires -> Galatians 5:19-22,
we can cultivate the spiritual fruitage of God's spirit as listed at Galatians 5:22-23.
I find after the verse at John 10:30 Jesus answers who he is at John 10:36.
Yes, God is with us just as another person can be with us and does Not make the other person God with us.
Although the same Greek grammar rule applies at both verses, KJV omitted the letter 'a' at John 1 but inserted the letter 'a' at Acts of the Apostles 28:6 B.
Jesus also prayed his followers be one just as he and his Father are one at John 11:17; John 11:21-23.
Surely Jesus was Not praying we all become God, but be one in purpose, belief, understanding , will, etc.
Before the verse at John 20:28 please notice the verse at John 20:17 because there in verse 17 Jesus is saying that he will ascend to his (my) Father... and to his (my)God and your God.
So, as we hear a person exclaim in front of a reporter, " Oh, my God! " we know that person is Not calling the reported as his God, but exclaiming in front of the reporter to his God.
Also, Revelation 3:12 finds the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still believing he has a God over him.
Jesus appears before the person of his God according to Hebrews 9:24. Jesus does Not appear in front of himself.
Yes, heavenly Jesus does say to his God (Hebrews 1:8) ' Your throne, O God..... ' because God has His very own separate throne according to Revelation 3:21 and Jesus has his own separate throne.
iam1me
Active Member
You are correct: the Father is God Almighty himself.
There are passages that explicitly call Jesus God, but even then he is said to have a God (Hebrews 1:8-9).
Passages like John 1 are easily understood without a need to literally interpret Jesus as God himself when you understand that the scriptures call angels God, Moses God, and those who have received the Word of God as gods. Those who do God's will, those who serve as his mediators, are in turn called God because they act and speak on God's behalf. In a similar sense, even the least of these, those in need, are said to be God.
There are passages that explicitly call Jesus God, but even then he is said to have a God (Hebrews 1:8-9).
Passages like John 1 are easily understood without a need to literally interpret Jesus as God himself when you understand that the scriptures call angels God, Moses God, and those who have received the Word of God as gods. Those who do God's will, those who serve as his mediators, are in turn called God because they act and speak on God's behalf. In a similar sense, even the least of these, those in need, are said to be God.
I also find at Psalms 82:1-8 that those human judges were also as ' gods ' because they were to use God's standards of right and wrong on which to base their judging.
I find No passages that explicitly call Jesus as God.
King James did omit the letter ' a ' at John 1 but inserted the letter ' a ' Acts of the Apostles 28:6 B.
At both verses the same Greek grammar rule applies.
Besides, pre-human heavenly Jesus was ' in ' the beginning whereas his God was ' before ' the beginning - Psalms 90:2
God is from everlasting to everlasting (No beginning, No ending ) on the other hand, pre-human heavenly Jesus had a starting point.- Revelation 1:5; Revelation 3:14 B,
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
To break up your verses a bit with commentary.
Jesus: Not everyone would say Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but he that do the will of MY father which is in heaven.
If he were the father, he would not point outside himself. Unless jesus is crazy, I'm sure he means "my father" not me.
I have not ascended to MY father. I ascend UNTO my father. Your father and my father.
He is not the father; he is not god.
1. In my father's name/authority is a HUGE cue that jesus is not god. That an: incarnation, intermediary, medium "between god and man".
2. None is god save that one that is god (not jesus-god)
The father is GREATER than the son and (because of the authority) he is in AGREEMENT with the father. You can't agree with yourself as if you are two and one in the same.
Notice that (according to your verses)
1. Jesus separate himself: greater, and, between, agreement, of, from, ascend to
2. Jesus lowed himself in hierarchy: I'm at my father's authority. WE are in agreement. The father AND I are "in one agreement."
The reason is says that the father and he are one is because
a. he has his father's authority (he didn't give himself authority)
b. He is in agreement with his father
c. He is an incarnate of his father (medium, rep, high priest, etc)
Folks. Christ is not god.
Jesus: Not everyone would say Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but he that do the will of MY father which is in heaven.
If he were the father, he would not point outside himself. Unless jesus is crazy, I'm sure he means "my father" not me.
I have not ascended to MY father. I ascend UNTO my father. Your father and my father.
He is not the father; he is not god.
1. In my father's name/authority is a HUGE cue that jesus is not god. That an: incarnation, intermediary, medium "between god and man".
2. None is god save that one that is god (not jesus-god)
The father is GREATER than the son and (because of the authority) he is in AGREEMENT with the father. You can't agree with yourself as if you are two and one in the same.
Notice that (according to your verses)
1. Jesus separate himself: greater, and, between, agreement, of, from, ascend to
2. Jesus lowed himself in hierarchy: I'm at my father's authority. WE are in agreement. The father AND I are "in one agreement."
The reason is says that the father and he are one is because
a. he has his father's authority (he didn't give himself authority)
b. He is in agreement with his father
c. He is an incarnate of his father (medium, rep, high priest, etc)
Folks. Christ is not god.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Proof texting gets us nowhere. The doctrine of the Trinity maintains that Jesus is fully human, so Jesus would have a God, just like any other human being.
Iymus
Active Member
1. Yes it has been made aware to me that the Trinitarian Doctrine is the foundation of trinitarian believers. No matter what verse is shown they will find a way to interpret a Triune God no matter how many universal meanings of pronouns, certain adjectives and percentages, along with greater than and less than signs " >, < " are ignored.
2. Might I remind you the duty of men and love of God?
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
3. Might I remind you the will of God?
Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Joh 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
4. Might I remind you That Christ came in God's name and was subservient to his works?
Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Joh 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
5. Might I remind you that the Head of Christ to Jesus followers is God?
1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
6. I could go on an on but Mat 13:14
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Love of God, is of the Father
Commandments of God, is of The Father
Will of God, is of The Father
Authority of God, is of The Father
Works of God, is of The Father
All things are of God our Father the only true God.