Fear of "Islamists"?

[sandandfoam]

I've been reading about the fear that "Islamists" will take advantage of the mass movement in North Africa. What's to fear?

 

[kai]

I've been reading about the fear that "Islamists" will take advantage of the mass movement in North Africa. What's to fear?

"I'm scared of the return of the Islamists," said Sonia, a 35-year-old government official who declined to give her last name, as the long-banned Islamist movement Ennahdha (Awakening) prepares to re-enter the political scene.

Tunisian women fear Islamist return | The Australian

 

[sandandfoam]

"I'm scared of the return of the Islamists," said Sonia, a 35-year-old government official who declined to give her last name, as the long-banned Islamist movement Ennahdha (Awakening) prepares to re-enter the political scene.

Tunisian women fear Islamist return | The Australian

I was talking to a Muslim fella from East Africa who said that things like head coverings are cultural. I want to try to avoid the 'no true scotsman' road, but how?

I can accept that there might be scary, oppressive beardy lads involved but why assume that they are the majority?
Any Muslim who I have spoken with (overwhelmingly on-line because in real life I don't get the opportunity often) says that Taliban like stuff is not Islamic.

How does one seperate prejudice from a real threat? For my part I can only see the prejudice.

 

[kai]

I was talking to a Muslim fella from East Africa who said that things like head coverings are cultural. I want to try to avoid the 'no true scotsman' road, but how?

I can accept that there might be scary, oppressive beardy lads involved but why assume that they are the majority?
Any Muslim who I have spoken with (overwhelmingly on-line because in real life I don't get the opportunity often) says that Taliban like stuff is not Islamic.

How does one seperate prejudice from a real threat? For my part I can only see the prejudice.

well show me a place on earth where the regime says its not islamic i dont know Afganistan,Iran,Somalia,Saudi?????????/

 

[sandandfoam]

well show me a place on earth where the regime says its not islamic i dont know Sudan, Afganistan,Iran,Somalia,Saudi?????????/

But if you ask any of the Muslims here they'll tell you that these countries are not Islamic.

These oppressive regimes that we are supposed to fear as Islamist are also generally either the result of Western meddling or directly supported by the West.

Yet when Muslim people take on the tyrant they are somehow portrayed as the scary ones.

 

[Looncall]

But if you ask any of the Muslims here they'll tell you that these countries are not Islamic.

These oppressive regimes that we are supposed to fear as Islamist are also generally either the result of Western meddling or directly supported by the West.

Yet when Muslim people take on the tyrant they are somehow portrayed as the scary ones.

Of course muslims here will not admit that those regimes are islamic. They don't want to be regarded as barbarians.

The regimes in question do very much regard themselves as islamic.

I don't buy the "we're barbarians because of the west" act. Note that the Gaza regime is islamist by the voters' choice. I do buy the "autocratic regimes have endured because of western support" view.

The problems of tyrants and of islamists are two different questions. Not all the tyrants are islamists.

 

[England my lionheart]

I've been reading about the fear that "Islamists" will take advantage of the mass movement in North Africa. What's to fear?

Hi Stephen,hope you finnished your studying first we need to understand what an Islamist is,in short they are revivalists,they want Islam back as it was with Muhammed and his companions 1400 years ago,they also consider any other Muslim who disagree as Atheists.

Unlike many of the Muslims on this site Islamists do not accept a secular government as that is associating others with God so Sharia must be the governance,thats why the Woman is worried because theres no place or no such thing as a moderate or liberal Muslim.

 

[sandandfoam]

Hi Stephen,hope you finnished your studying .

Lol. Yes indeed. Just waiting to get started again in earnest

first we need to understand what an Islamist is,in short they are revivalists,they want Islam back as it was with Muhammed and his companions 1400 years ago,they also consider any other Muslim who disagree as Atheists.

Unlike many of the Muslims on this site Islamists do not accept a secular government as that is associating others with God so Sharia must be the governance,thats why the Woman is worried because theres no place or no such thing as a moderate or liberal Muslim

Thank you England. You've educated me

 

[Flankerl]

I can accept that there might be scary, oppressive beardy lads involved but why assume that they are the majority?
Any Muslim who I have spoken with (overwhelmingly on-line because in real life I don't get the opportunity often) says that Taliban like stuff is not Islamic.

The problem with extremists is that they dont give a damn about it that they are a minority.
Thats the whole problem with them.

 

[Starsoul]

Unlike many of the Muslims on this site Islamists do not accept a secular government as that is associating others with God so Sharia must be the governance,thats why the Woman is worried because theres no place or no such thing as a moderate or liberal Muslim.

The woman seems a bit uneducated then, because there are huge numbers of liberals and moderate muslims everywhere, and they are free to live in the secular states/or the shariah states whenever they wish, with or without a shariah system in place.

 

[England my lionheart]

The woman seems a bit uneducated then, because there are huge numbers of liberals and moderate muslims everywhere, and they are free to live in the secular states/or the shariah states whenever they wish, with or without a shariah system in place.

I wonder how many live in Saudi or how many of the Taliban are moderate and liberal moderates

 

[sandandfoam]

I wonder how many live in Saudi or how many of the Taliban are moderate and liberal moderates

Isn't it the cruellest irony that the two regimes you cite woudn't have managed to remain in or obtain power without the west?

 

[kai]

But if you ask any of the Muslims here they'll tell you that these countries are not Islamic. yes they will

These oppressive regimes that we are supposed to fear as Islamist are also generally either the result of Western meddling or directly supported by the West. Theirs always someone to blame

Yet when Muslim people take on the tyrant they are somehow portrayed as the scary ones.

the egyptians or |Tunisian or any muslim people arnt scary as such, but religious based governments are always scary in my book

 

[kai]

Isn't it the cruellest irony that the two regimes you cite woudn't have managed to remain in or obtain power without the west?

indeed they could have been soviet backed.

 

[sandandfoam]

but religious based governments are always scary in my book

Direct, we beseech Thee, O Lord, our actions by Thy holy inspirations and carry them on by Thy gracious assistance; that every word and work of ours may always begin from Thee, and by Thee be happily ended; through Christ our Lord. Amen.
The above prayer is said at the commencement of each day's business in the Dáil by the Ceann Comhairle, and in the Seanad by the Clerk of the Seanad.


Scary?

 

[kai]

Direct, we beseech Thee, O Lord, our actions by Thy holy inspirations and carry them on by Thy gracious assistance; that every word and work of ours may always begin from Thee, and by Thee be happily ended; through Christ our Lord. Amen.
The above prayer is said at the commencement of each day's business in the Dáil by the Ceann Comhairle, and in the Seanad by the Clerk of the Seanad.


Scary?

yeah! scary, but not so scary as sharia! remember i am an atheist as far as i am concerned its spell casting,and justifying your rule through your deity.

 

[England my lionheart]

Isn't it the cruellest irony that the two regimes you cite woudn't have managed to remain in or obtain power without the west?

Yes it is,i detest the dealing my Government has with Saudi but political Chess is a cruel game

 

[Starsoul]

I wonder how many live in Saudi or how many of the Taliban are moderate and liberal moderates

Many actually, you seem to have little idea. True that The elite live pretty much the same way everywhere in the world, whichever brand of belief they carry, being rich is their religion, and supporting each other in the times of need when their people turn against them is what capitalist regimes do.. e.g do people want karzai in Afghanistan? No, who wants him there? hmmmm

Islam itslef is a moderate religion, there is no division of it as you are presenting. Yes muslims have different levels of committment to its practices, but that in no way calls for a separate identity.

 

[England my lionheart]

Many actually, you seem to have little idea. True that The elite live pretty much the same way everywhere in the world, whichever brand of belief they carry, being rich is their religion, and supporting each other in the times of need when their people turn against them is what capitalist regimes do.. e.g do people want karzai in Afghanistan? No, who wants him there? hmmmm

Islam itslef is a moderate religion, there is no division of it as you are presenting. Yes muslims have different levels of committment to its practices, but that in no way calls for a separate identity.

Yet your Prophet said there will be 73 sects and only one is the right one ie like him and the companions and the rest are for the fire,so a minority of Muslims ie Islamists consider themselves as the Jammah (spl) and the rest as atheists.

 

[Meow Mix]

Many actually, you seem to have little idea. True that The elite live pretty much the same way everywhere in the world, whichever brand of belief they carry, being rich is their religion, and supporting each other in the times of need when their people turn against them is what capitalist regimes do.. e.g do people want karzai in Afghanistan? No, who wants him there? hmmmm

Islam itslef is a moderate religion, there is no division of it as you are presenting. Yes muslims have different levels of committment to its practices, but that in no way calls for a separate identity.

So, there's no difference between Osama bin Laden and the rational Muslim posters here on RF? I would find that very difficult to believe. It seems that there IS such a thing as moderate Islam and extremist Islam.

Of course someone can just say "Oh, Osama isn't a real Muslim" but that's just the No True Scotsman fallacy.

There are moderates and extremists for any position, pretty much -- I don't see why Islam would be any different. Some are willing to brutally degrade and control women, others are more rational. Some are willing to fly planes into buildings and kill unarmed civilians, others are more rational. Just like with, say, Christianity -- some are willing to blow up abortion clinics, others are more rational. Some (*cough*thelionheart*cough*) are willing to kill everyone in a city whereas others (*cough*saladin*cough*) are more rational.