Feelings from a New Poster

[Green Kepi]

Feelings are really neither right nor wrong, good or bad...they just are. I can feel good or right about something all day long and still be wrong. If I believe there is no right or wrong, that everthing is subjective, I can and will be thrown around by every "wind" that blows my way.

If I practice my religion based on how I feel, I'd be free to do whatever I deem fit or seemed right in my own eyes. If I did this, I would not get up and go to church. Sunday mornings are a wonderful time for me to sleep in. If I based on feelings, I wouldn't need to give as much as I do. God owns everything, He doesn't really need my little bit of paltry monies.

I don't like that part of "loving my enemies". So, I won't do that since I don't "feel" like it. I could go on and on with this; however, what do I base my beliefs on? Definitely not on the teachings of uninspired men or women.

The core of my beliefs comes from the Bible. It matters not what I "think" on my own. So I trust my whole future on the message of the Gospel. I've studied it for around 35 years and am satisfied that this is the way for me to continue. I'm not on a mission to change anyone's personal beliefs that differ from mine. If along the way, I may say something that makes sense to anyone...great! If not, let me know...maybe you will teach me a thing or two. We may never agree with one another...but, at least we communicated and listened to one another.

There's as many different views between Christians that there are between any groups of people. Here's some of the ways I personally describe myself when someone asks what I believe: I'm neither Protestant or Catholic. I don't wear another name added to the title Christian. I don't celebrate Christmas as Christ's birthday or Easter. Easter is just another day for me. I formally celebrate these events every first day of the week. I believe Jesus was allowed by God to re-make the earth and lower heavens after God destroyed it the first time. That's one reason why there are many of those wooly mammoths frozen solid in the ice with green food still in their mouths. The old earth was covered with ice and water when the Spirit of God hovered over it.

I don't believe Noah and his family were saved from the 2nd flood because he was such a great guy. I think he was save because his family was the only "pure" family left. What I mean by that is that I believe as the Book of Enoch, Josephus, and the Jews taught (up until the 4th century) that "fallen angels" bred with women on earth producing the giants (I loved to discuss this in detail with someone).

Now...that I've said all that. Here's where I will "duck" as many out there will "fire" away with me. I believe Jesus is the only way to God and Heaven. You can't get there without going through Him. Please don't get too upset with me if you disagree. Let me know how and where you think I'm wrong. Still "Forum Friends"???

 

[Green Gaia]

You're entitled to your opinion. I don't agree with most of what you said, but then I'm not Christian. Enjoy the forum.

 

[c0da]

I don't really agree either, but like Maize, I am not a Christian.

Welcome to the forum though and I hope you enjoy posting here!

 

[Sunstone]

Welcome to the Forum, Green Kepi! I hope you like it here and participate often. I'm sure you'll find someone to discuss most any issue that concerns you with. We're a pretty diverse crowd.

Since you're looking for a conversation, perhaps we can begin one here:

Feelings are really neither right nor wrong, good or bad...they just are. I can feel good or right about something all day long and still be wrong.

I need a clarification here. By "feelings" do you mean the same thing as "emotions"? If not, how do feelings and emotions differ? What, precisely, do you mean by "feelings"?

I'm not on a mission to change anyone's personal beliefs that differ from mine. If along the way, I may say something that makes sense to anyone...great! If not, let me know...maybe you will teach me a thing or two. We may never agree with one another...but, at least we communicated and listened to one another.

I can agree with that. I'm mostly just here to meet people, while away my time, entertain myself, and make sure Jeffery doesn't drive his 18 wheel truck through the debates forum, like he sometimes gets an itch to do, unless he honks first. I figure changing opinions is not something I can accomplish anyway. It seems to me that only the person himself can change his opinion. So, we're cool about that?

Once again, welcome!

 

[Feathers in Hair]

Now...that I've said all that. Here's where I will "duck" as many out there will "fire" away with me. I believe Jesus is the only way to God and Heaven. You can't get there without going through Him. Please don't get too upset with me if you disagree. Let me know how and where you think I'm wrong. Still "Forum Friends"???

And I believe that there are several gods, that beauty and wisdom is found within us all, and that no one religion can capture the myriad beauty of faith. I think that most paths that do not harm others and that don't lead to suffering (and hopefully to inspiring those that walk them to greater heights) are valid, and I think the only heaven or hell is the one that people make (pending an afterlife that I happen to believe in, but know that it may not be true).

Put another way, my love of the Goddess is only one way toward compassion and celebrating the holiness in others. We're all entitled to our beliefs, and (to steal from a Lakota saying) while I won't bother any man about his religion, I will not allow him to bother mine.

 

[Bishka]

Welcome.

 

[Karl R]

If I practice my religion based on how I feel, I'd be free to do whatever I deem fit or seemed right in my own eyes.

You truly misunderstand how people apply their feelings to their religious beliefs.

If I feel something is right, even though it goes against what I would prefer to do, I tend to trust that feeling. If I feel something is right, and is coincides completely with what I prefer to do, I will view that feeling with suspicion.

I will always try to back up my feelings with something more substantial: observations based on personal experience, religious texts (christian or non), things other people have told me (if I trust their judgment), interactions with people...

If I did this, I would not get up and go to church. Sunday mornings are a wonderful time for me to sleep in.

I feel that my spiritual health suffers when I'm not involved in a like-minded community. Because of this feeling, I take steps to make it more likely that I will stay involved in a church for an extended period (especially on those Sunday mornings when I'd rather sleep in).

If I based on feelings, I wouldn't need to give as much as I do. God owns everything, He doesn't really need my little bit of paltry monies.

I feel that I can do without some luxuries when so many people are trying to survive without the necessities.

I don't like that part of "loving my enemies".

Neither do I. I feel that it's one of the most difficult things that christianity asks people to do. But I've felt how much I got eaten up on the inside when I tried hating someone for a long period of time. Loving my enemies may be hard, but it's a lot healthier than the alternative.

I could go on and on with this;

Instead of going on-and-on in a dismissive fashion, try considering it with the same depth and thoughtfulness used by the people who do involve their feelings in their spiritual decisions.

what do I base my beliefs on? Definitely not on the teachings of uninspired men or women.

I would hardly consider Spong, Gandhi, Buddha, Kushner, Lao Tsu, and Muhammad to be uninspired. I feel all of them had some excellent spiritual teachings. (Some of the teachings available on this forum could also be considered inspired.)

I also feel that scientists are a lot more reliable for explaining the world around us than ancient mythologies.


Maybe your feelings shouldn't be trusted. Maybe your thoughts shouldn't be trusted. Maybe a dogmatic literal faith serves you best. But are you absolutely certain that you understand everyone else well enough to know what path will make them into the best people?

 

[maggie2]

I certainly disagree with most of what you have said. However, everyone has a right to their opinions and that includes both of us.

 

[steelblue75]

ok the way i "feel" about religion is simple.... might have something to do with the fact that im a simple guy.... and before you start thinking i need to go soon to see wapner yeah yeah wapner...hehe i mean i cut to the chase.. . dont beat around the bush... and numerous other varied cliches so time to get to the meat of the matter... religion was fine until it became organized once man got his meat hooks into the religion and manipulated it for his own needs and gains... the way i see it the only thing religion has accomplished is to give people another reason to be cruel and inhumane to each other and an escape clause when that hatred turns violent resulting in the death of another person. believe what you want and if that makes you a more caring thoughtful individual then awesome my hats off to ya but if all you can do is look down on someone who doesnt believe as you do then you have missed the entire point of the "teachings of christ" or allah budda whomever you chose to designate as you diety so in the words of the immortal jerry springer....

take care of yourself and each other
james:jam:

 

[Green Kepi]

Wow...good. Thanks. Carl R, I like the the way you broke it all down. Sunstone...I just use feelings as something coming from the result of one's own impression. My emotions are more of sensation. How strong or how I react to my feelings. I'm no psychologist, so I'm not much in answering your question. I just attempt to be a "simple" student of the Bible. Hey...at least you all did not disagree with "all" of what I said. One of you even stated, "I don't agree with most of what you said". So, thanks. This site might not be too bad :0)....

 

[Booko]

Wow...good. Thanks. Carl R, I like the the way you broke it all down. Sunstone...I just use feelings as something coming from the result of one's own impression. My emotions are more of sensation. How strong or how I react to my feelings. I'm no psychologist, so I'm not much in answering your question. I just attempt to be a "simple" student of the Bible. Hey...at least you all did not disagree with "all" of what I said. One of you even stated, "I don't agree with most of what you said". So, thanks. This site might not be too bad :0)....

Oh, you'll be alright. Just find a thread that interests you and hop in.

In the meantime...welcome! :flower:

 

[Sunstone]

Green Kepi, Scientific American recently published a report of a study that suggests people "...pondering a complex decision and then distracted by puzzles made more satisfying choices than those who deliberated continuously. Evidently the unconscious mind is better at plowing through information without bias." I find that interesting in light of this discussion of feelings, because I believe that many people, when they say they are consulting their feelings or intuitions, are consulting their unconscious mind to some extent. Perhaps they do this because experience teaches them doing so results in "more satisfying choices"? I don't know, however, if you think this little tidbit might be at all relevent to how you view feelings?

Maybe to clarify: The unconscious mind is, among other things, a repository of information (memory) about experiences. Consulting it would have the advantage of making decisions on the basis of our experiences, and consulting it also seems (according to the above study) to result in less biased decisions than merely thinking about something consciously. So, if all that is true enough, then how can it be said that going by our feelings opens up to going any where the wind blows? It would rather seem that going by our feelings has the possibility at least of openning us to going more truly by what our experiences have taught us than even consciously pondering a decision can do.

Please note: I am not advocating making decisions solely based on feelings alone. Like Karl said, it is wise to consult more than ones feelings. But I am saying that it might be wiser to consult ones feelings than you seem to allow in your OP.

 

[s2a]

Hello Green Kepi,

I wish to commend you for your impressive self-introduction to REF (this forum). (Frubals to you). I retain little doubt that you are earnest and sincere in expressing your faith-based beliefs, and there are plenty of "followers of Christ" (both creedal and "unaffiliated") with which you may enjoy "spirited" debate.

As I am both skeptic and atheist, you would not be surprised that I consider virtually all faith-based claims and assertions of Biblically accounted "fact" as unmitigated bunk.

Like yourself, I am unmotivated to expend concerted efforts to disabuse pious adherents of any of their faith-based beliefs (how you reconcile Mattt. 28:18-20 with your personal philosophy is another matter. ;-)). I am more concerned with the "why" of what people believe (or claim) as "truth" (or "fact").

Ideas (and the reasons proffered as support of an idea) are debatable, and I'm of the mind that people can be moved to reconsider - or even change - their ideological perspectives, if a better idea is presented and hashed out amongst honest, open-minded, and sincerely thoughtful folks. Discussion is nice, and has it's own place. But debate is enjoined for the purpose of presenting the better idea or perspective, in efforts to effect change; not only of pre-conceived perceptions, but also as a matter of (leading to, or) being the best available (or most acceptable) conclusion beyond reasonable doubt.

I'll save our prospective exchanges in debate for another thread that presents (for myself) a more compelling premise beyond a singular testament of faith.

I would put but one question of you at this time. Would you, or do you, consider yourself as a Biblical inerrantist and/or literalist? Your statements regarding Noah, (and allusion to John 14:6) suggest as much, but some of your other testimonial conclusions (re: frozen wooly mammoths) hint at some extrapolative extra-biblical apologetics.

Again, I welcome you to REF, and I trust that you will find both kindred spirits and energetic foils alike.

[PS. I've but 30 years of Biblical exegesis under my belt, so you have one up on me there. ;-) Do you have a favored translation, for future reference in prospective exchanges? Oops. That's two questions...]

 

[zombieharlot]

I think you'll find that most people here are pretty tolerant of others and their beliefs. Some more than others, but essentially we are all here to learn from one another. So I don't think you'll really need to "duck". And welcome to the forum!

 

[BFD_Zayl]

well, i dont agree to what you say. but regardless, welcome to the family!:clap

 

[telecino]

First,

Does anyone know how many Christians there are on the planet, and how many people exist on the planet.

I don't have the numbers (does anyone? just post) but i can't believe 80%-90% of the planet is wrong about their spirituality.:bonk:

Second,

Who can say Buddha can't bring you to God without having taken the time to experiment buddhism. Who can say Shiva won't bring you to nirvana if Shiva's invocation has never been tried long enough. Who can place their hand in the fire, that my God is the only God, other than an "elitist". PS: Elitist = religious racism. It means "I'm part of the elite who has the truth, and everybody else is wrong."

One thing for sure, only the Christ can bring a Christian to God and Heaven, and maybe its that same for Buddha and buddhism.

Measure your reaction to the following affirmation:
A muslim becoming a God by praying with the Coran.

Now, what was your reaction to it (1= sure, why not / 10= Pfff, never! NEVER is SaiD!)
Your honest spontaneous reaction 1 to 10, this is your degree of elitism.

In my belief, i'de rather say "i don't know, maybe you have the truth. Care to show me?"

 

[s2a]

First,

Does anyone know how many Christians there are on the planet, and how many people exist on the planet.

Best guesses:
Christianity - 2.07 billion adherents worldwide (31.8% of world population)
Source

World Population estimate - 6,513,808,264 (constantly updated)
Source

"...I can't believe 80%-90% of the planet is wrong about their spirituality".:bonk:

Wrong about their "spirituality"? If it makes you feel good about yourself and others, or lends comfort in times of strife, and matters of self-doubt, then no...spirituality isn't "wrong" from a purely personalized perspective.

However, that's not to say that "spirituality" is "correct" in tendering explanations predicated upon faith-based beliefs either. ;-)

There's an axiom sometimes seen blandished on a bumpersticker:
"I don't know, and neither do you."

 

[Green Kepi]

S2A,

No…I do not believe that what I have in writing is free from errors nor do I accept it as word for word. I do believe that the original inspirations to the authors were divinely inspired. We do not have those. So, the question many ask me is, “Then why do you follow the words of this Gospel”? Because I believe that God allowed what I do have to be filtered down to me. When I stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ, at least I can say, “This is what you gave me…I tried my best to follow it”.

I currently use 8 different translations in my studies. All have their own unique weaknesses and strengths. Additionally, I’m a big fan of history…especially, the Jewish History. This I supplement into my Biblical study. This makes sense?

I can see now that I probably will need to go into one of those forums of “like faith”. However, I usually have better, more reasoned, critical thinking with atheists, etc. than with ones of my “like” faith.

Now I have a question for you…with 30 years of critical study, did you become an atheist from the study or were you always one? Thanks again….

 

[s2a]

Hello Green Kepi,

You said:

No…I do not believe that what I have in writing is free from errors nor do I accept it as word for word. I do believe that the original inspirations to the authors were divinely inspired. We do not have those. So, the question many ask me is, “Then why do you follow the words of this Gospel”? Because I believe that God allowed what I do have to be filtered down to me. When I stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ, at least I can say, “This is what you gave me…I tried my best to follow it”.

As long as you can trust the "filters"...;-)

I currently use 8 different translations in my studies. All have their own unique weaknesses and strengths. Additionally, I’m a big fan of history…especially, the Jewish History. This I supplement into my Biblical study. This makes sense?

Yep. I have some history interests as well, but not so much in Jewish history.

I can see now that I probably will need to go into one of those forums of “like faith”. However, I usually have better, more reasoned, critical thinking with atheists, etc. than with ones of my “like” faith.

Why do you suppose that is so?

Now I have a question for you…with 30 years of critical study, did you become an atheist from the study or were you always one? Thanks again….

We're all born atheists. Indoctrinated beliefs tend to shape folks into becoming something other than atheistic.

If you're inquiring as to whether I left some faith-based beliefs behind after some Biblical study, the answer is no. I was certainly exposed to religion (Methodist) when I was a child, and encouraged to believe in God per my grandparents wishes. They were not especially fond of my own parents' indifference to religion, and their espousal of critical thinking over faith-based rationales. The infrequent church services I was compelled to attend when in the company of my grandparents was pleasant enough, and not off-putting, per se. But even then, in my early youth, religion just seemed like one more fantasy fairy tale, akin to the Brothers Grimm, leprechauns, or Santa Claus. I was sufficiently indoctrinated as to be able to parrot rote recitals and devotional prayers/psalms...but as is likely true of most kids (like reciting the Pledge of Allegiance), the words themselves held no especial meaning or impact upon my concerns or cares. It was just a part of what you were supposed to do in church. No more.

In my later teens, I had quite a few friends that were "Jesus Freaks" (they called themselves that), and they were most distressed that I...was not. They constantly set upon me to effect my conversion "for my own sake", and incessantly invited me to accompany them to their "non-denominational meetings", under the rubric of the (quite harmless) "Young Life" organization/movement.

Eventually, I felt that the only way I could get them to finally relent, was to accede to their entreaties. I attended numerous "meetings", and even attended a couple of weekend-long "retreats". Bible study was (obviously) encouraged, so I figured that no harm could result from an enhanced understanding of my friend's "sacred" texts. Before long, I retained a better understanding and discernment of Scriptural allusions, allegories, and teachings than virtually all of my "Jesus Freak" pals. Yet, I had no faith. They couldn't understand why then. Many yet do not today (although a few have "become" agnostic/skeptics, abandoning their faith for themselves).

The reality of the world (well, the "world" that I inhabit here in the U.S.) then, as it is today...is that self-professed Christians represent the predominant majority of faith-based adherents in every community I've ever chosen to reside.

Christian "views" tend to infiltrate and pervade virtually all aspects of society and culture. Where they have yet to exert total dominance/control of their ideology/mythology into the few remaining public bastions of secular pluralism and critical thought/review, the evangelistic/fundamentalist Christian's assault upon these institutions (to either restrict/inhibit/prohibit rational/critical/scientific thought; or imbue their ideology as a matter of enforceable law) veritably requires an understanding of the very texts that their faith-based rationales are predicated, rationalized, and righteously justified.

Of course, many self-professed Christians of this ilk have little to no understanding or discernment of the very texts that they proclaim as [incontrovertible] "truth". Many really don't understand for themselves the "why", of the what(ever) they faithfully proclaim as "God's Word", or "Truth".

I have maintained my consistent evaluations and revisitations of the (content and implications) Bible over the years, whilst indulging varying degrees of study/interest of other faith/myth/superstition based beliefs, as exercise in compare/contrast evaluations, as well as a more informed (and prospectively more tolerant) perspective of faith-based rationales and motivations, and those that adhere to such.

I have spent decades repelling religious (primarily Christian-based) efforts to impose/indoctrinate/mandate their "values" into our civil laws, our public schools/universities, and our very lives.

I have no quibble with religious proselytization, per se. Seeking ever more converts is oft the primary goal of adherents. Fine with me. All I ever hope to promote as counter to those efforts is maintenance and preservation of reason, critical examination/review, and a cautionary perspective of acceptable fact vs. existential (or faith-based) "truth".

In a nation where the overwhelming population mindset is either loosely or firmly entrenched in some creedal variant of Christian ideology, philosophy, or doxology...and you (like me!) are part of the minority - the best defense available is in an understanding of the oppositions own gameplans, strategies, and motivations for "victory".

And so, the study, review, discussion, and debate continue...;-)

[PS. As long as the topic is germane to the sub-forum heading, you go and post wherever you think you'll enjoin the best discussion/debate. Hey, It's REF! Indulge yourself. ;-)]