Feminine male, masculine female.

[YmirGF]

People


Yeah, not giving a rip about assigned gender traits.

Not applicable



Duly noted.

Thanks for posting what I would have.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I tend towards being what is required for the situation. Not difficult being more feminine when dealing with children for example, when the caring side has to be what one exhibits. But if one is in any outdoor situation, especially any dangerous ones, the masculine side tends to come out, as the emotions are not really that helpful in many situations. Just my experiences in some situations - where we had one female with us when doing the Cuillin Ridge on Skye, for example - she was very competent but probably displaying her masculine side at the time. I am a bit suspicious of those who do seem rather rigid in their personalities - either way. I see myself as being very masculine - testosterone finger checked - but I am also probably more feminine than many in some ways - my preference for compassion over judgment, for example. A good balance is probably best.

 

[Curious George]

When you hear the term feminine male, what do you think of? How about masculine female?

more questions, lol.

I think of "in what way masculine or feminine? And to what degree? Those terms have such a wide range, it is hard to decipher without context. Are we talking about a single trait, a predominant trait, several traits? are we talking about an individual as a whole?

Do you have differing feelings on the two?

Well that depends on the context in which a person uses them.

Do you find one more positive or negative than the other?

No.

Bonus: Is it possible to be neither more feminine or more masculine? Do you think that is more positive, less positive, or the same as having predominantly one trait (according to your definitions of feminine and masculine.)


*Note that this is in the discussion rather than debate area.

Yes, and I do not think that is more or less valuable in and of itself.

 

[sun rise]

When you hear the term feminine male, what do you think of? How about masculine female? Do you have differing feelings on the two? Do you find one more positive or negative than the other?

For quite a while in the past, the masculine and feminine was a strong polarity between male and female covering dress, what behavior was acceptable, what emotions could be expressed and what roles were required in society.

That broke down with women wearing clothes that had been classified as masculine and working jobs that were formerly all male. Now, slowly, that's changing for men as well with some staying home to take care of children and so forth.

And now it's much more OK for men to cry and women to show anger to pick two classics.

What is going on is slowly separating men and women from masculine and feminine and removing the pejorative words used to describe those who are not on one pole or the other.

I believe any emotionally and even psychologically sound person is both feminine and masculine as appropriate to circumstances. To be all one or the other is to be dysfunctional in some way or another.

Nail, meet hammer. Many people are naturally inclined one way or the other, but emotional health means that all emotions should be accessible to everyone.

 

[Curious George]

I tend towards being what is required for the situation. Not difficult being more feminine when dealing with children for example, when the caring side has to be what one exhibits. But if one is in any outdoor situation, especially any dangerous ones, the masculine side tends to come out, as the emotions are not really that helpful in many situations. Just my experiences in some situations - where we had one female with us when doing the Cuillin Ridge on Skye, for example - she was very competent but probably displaying her masculine side at the time. I am a bit suspicious of those who do seem rather rigid in their personalities - either way. I see myself as being very masculine - testosterone finger checked - but I am also probably more feminine than many in some ways - my preference for compassion over judgment, for example. A good balance is probably best.

I would question the accuracy of your use regarding the term feminine and masculine here. I think this pushes toward a stereotype of feminine and masculine that is not internally consistent. People use the terms in a wide range, but the feminine=emotional masculine=logical is, in my opinion, one of the least accurate descriptions.

 

[Akivah]

RF loosely defines the difference as debate being a back and forth exchange with the intent to debunk or rebutt the opposite position. Discussion is merely he exchange of positions.

I like discussion better then, @Revoltingest has a funnier definition than you.

 

[Akivah]

And now it's much more OK for men to cry and women to show anger to pick two classics.

From what I've seen, a male crying in public will earn scorn and humiliation, not empathy or understanding.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I would question the accuracy of your use regarding the term feminine and masculine here. I think this pushes toward a stereotype of feminine and masculine that is not internally consistent. People use the terms in a wide range, but the feminine=emotional masculine=logical is, in my opinion, one of the least accurate descriptions.

Perhaps. I know we have changed greatly over the decades and I have had very limited experiences granted.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I think of "in what way masculine or feminine? And to what degree?

A very reasonable question! I left it deliberately vague to see what direction people interpret it first. If it conjured images of a style of dress, physiological characteristics, behavior, identity, or a mix.

Bearing that in mind, hey @Revoltingest what does 'girly' and 'butch' mean to you?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I like discussion better then, @Revoltingest has a funnier definition than you.

That's fair.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

From what I've seen, a male crying in public will earn scorn and humiliation, not empathy or understanding.

I think it depends on the crowd. In my generation (30-somes), literature and television written for women by women tended to heavily feature what could be considered stereotypically feminine men rather than earlier generation's Fabios. That still exists, of course, but it's not the powerhouse social standard it once was.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I would question the accuracy of your use regarding the term feminine and masculine here. I think this pushes toward a stereotype of feminine and masculine that is not internally consistent. People use the terms in a wide range, but the feminine=emotional masculine=logical is, in my opinion, one of the least accurate descriptions.

Not sure this advert enticed many females - to join the club.

No - not mud-wrestling - caving.

 

[Jumi]

When you hear the term feminine male, what do you think of?

How about masculine female? Do you have differing feelings on the two? Do you find one more positive or negative than the other?

Nowadays I think just about how they look. In a cultural sense men are still not supposed to show much emotion in general.

Bonus: Is it possible to be neither more feminine or more masculine? Do you think that is more positive, less positive, or the same as having predominantly one trait (according to your definitions of feminine and masculine.

Yes. Many in the younger generation don't seem to belong much to either, good for them I don't think anything negative about it.

 

[Nakosis]

When you hear the term feminine male, what do you think of? How about masculine female? Do you have differing feelings on the two? Do you find one more positive or negative than the other?

After watching "Sense 8", I'm pretty much ok with whatever combination works for folks. It's interesting how art can change a person's attitude about things.

Bonus: Is it possible to be neither more feminine or more masculine? Do you think that is more positive, less positive, or the same as having predominantly one trait (according to your definitions of feminine and masculine.)

I don't think it matters. As long as you treat other people deciently.

 

[Reaper]

I do not feel negatively about any form of gender expression or lack thereof, being that I'm trans myself and exposed to a large variety of folks in the LGBTQ+ community.

 

[Sunstone]

Do you think it's possible to strike a balance between the two? Do you think that's healthier, less healthy or neutral compared to being more one or the other (but not necessarily extremely so.)

I think a balance gives greater flexibility in how you respond effectively to circumstances and situations, and therefore allows you to respond effectively to a wider range of circumstances and situations. In the sense that functionally (as opposed to dysfunctionally) responding to any circumstance or situation is generally a sign of health, a balance is therefore healthier than leaning significantly one way or the other.

Incidentally, when I look back at some of the "toughest" men I've ever personally known in my life -- the fire fighters I once worked with some decades ago -- I see how most of the men who struck me as exceptionally competent (they were all at least competent -- you don't hold down such a job if you're not at least that) were so very often the men who had a noticeable feminine side.

The Fire Department had a policy that favored hiring ex-military, and almost everyone except me and two or three others had served in one branch or another; several as ex-Viet Nam combat Marines or combat soldiers. But I recall for certain that none of them -- not even one of them -- was "macho" in the sense that there was anything about them that was posturing, or that was putting on a brave facade, or a false front. They were just tough, and yet of these tough men, the most "competent of the competent" seemed to me to often enough have a noticeable feminine side.

Of course, I don't mean "feminine" in anything like the "girly", "effeminate" or "hyper-feminine" senses, but rather in having marked "feminine" traits, such as superior empathy for others, caring-ness, and even remarkable gentleness in key ways. I don't know how exactly that might fit in with their being more than usually competent to fight fires, but I think the correlation might be significant and bear on my point that having both feminine and masculine traits gives you greater flexibility in dealing with challenges.

I'll give you one example. Something that has stuck with me for years, and in some ways is still a bit of a mystery to me. We were extracting a recently killed young man of about 20 or so from a vehicle accident. My job was to hold his body up at a certain angle so we could get the tools in to cut his corpse loose. Because of that odd angle, and the crumpled nature of the van he'd been driving, I had to hold his still warm body more or less a close as you would hold a lover in order to get the necessary leverage. There's no more accurate way to describe it.

The work was unusually difficult and slow, and blood was still draining from the wounds in his body in a stream as thick as my small finger. A third or half of me became soaked with it. I held that position for about forty five minutes, the whole while all but forced to stare into his open eyes, which were less than a foot from my own. Towards the end, there was no way I wasn't feeling a bit of grief for the guy, mourning him.

Then, if I am not entirely mistaken about this, one of my crew, a man I thought one of the more competent fire fighters, looked at me with an expression on his face that I can only describe as as one of the most compassionate looks I have ever received from anyone. I was almost startled by the purity of it! There was nothing like pity in it, none of that other stuff; just pure, probably spontaneous compassion. It is still to this day as vivid as yesterday in my mind. But how on earth did he know or sense how I was feeling -- for he certainly seemed to. You don't know this about me, but I have a nearly perfect poker face, and I was certainly wearing it that day. There wasn't even a hint of a tear in my eyes. Yet, unless I am utterly mistaken, he knew how I felt.

He was also very much a man you would not mind wholly entrusting with your life.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I think a balance gives greater flexibility in how you respond effectively to circumstances and situations, and therefore allows you to respond effectively to a wider range of circumstances and situations. In the sense that functionally (as opposed to dysfunctionally) responding to any circumstance or situation is generally a sign of health, a balance is therefore healthier than leaning significantly one way or the other.

Incidentally, when I look back at some of the "toughest" men I've ever personally known in my life -- the fire fighters I once worked with some decades ago -- I see how most of the men who struck me as exceptionally competent (they were all at least competent -- you don't hold down such a job if you're not at least that) were so very often the men who had a noticeable feminine side.

Of course, I don't mean "feminine" in anything like the "girly", "effeminate" or "hyper-feminine" senses, but rather in having marked "feminine" traits, such as superior empathy for others, caring-ness, and even remarkable gentleness in key ways. I don't know how exactly that might fit in with their being more than usually competent to fight fires, but I think the correlation might be significant and bear on my point that having both feminine and masculine traits gives you greater flexibility in dealing with challenges.

I'll give you one example. Something that has stuck with me for years, and in some ways is still a bit of a mystery to me. We were extracting a recently killed young man of about 20 or so from a vehicle accident. My job was to hold his body up at a certain angle so we could get the tools in to cut his corpse loose. Because of that odd angle, and the crumpled nature of the van he'd been driving, I had to hold his still warm body more or less a close as you would hold a lover in order to get the necessary leverage. There's no better way to describe it.

The work was unusually difficult and slow, and blood was still draining from the wounds in his body in a stream as thick as my small finger. A third or half of me became soaked with it. I held that position for about forty five minutes, the whole while all but forced to stare into his open eyes. Towards the end, there was no way I wasn't feeling grief for the guy, mourning him.

Then, if I am not entirely mistaken about this, one of my crew, a man I thought one of the more competent fire fighters, looked at me with an expression on his face that I can only describe as as one of the most compassionate looks I have ever received from anyone. I was almost startled by the purity of it! There was nothing like pity in it, none of that other stuff; just pure, probably spontaneous compassion. It is still to this day as vivid as yesterday in my mind. But how on earth did he know or sense how I was feeling -- for he certainly seemed to. You don't know this about me, but I have a nearly perfect poker face, and I was certainly wearing it that day. There wasn't even a hint of a tear in my eyes. Yet, unless I am utterly mistaken, he knew how I felt.

Man, thank you for sharing that powerful experience!
I concur on the rest of your post.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I do not feel negatively about any form of gender expression or lack thereof, being that I'm trans myself and exposed to a large variety of folks in the LGBTQ+ community.

I mentioned in another post but one of the inspirations for this thread is a trans woman who describes herself as not super effeminate, and didn't like dresses and makeup. So it was super cool to talk with her about challenging this cultural preconception that female identity =/= femininity > masculinity.

 

[Milton Platt]

When you hear the term feminine male, what do you think of? How about masculine female? Do you have differing feelings on the two? Do you find one more positive or negative than the other?

Bonus: Is it possible to be neither more feminine or more masculine? Do you think that is more positive, less positive, or the same as having predominantly one trait (according to your definitions of feminine and masculine.)


*Note that this is in the discussion rather than debate area.

I find that sometimes both very effeminate men and very butch, or masculine acting women can be off-putting to me. I don't really understand why that is so, as their life has no real impact on my own. But I am cognizant of it and try to not let it influence my thinking on a rational level.

 

[Revoltingest]

I like discussion better then, @Revoltingest has a funnier definition than you.

I'd frubal your post, but I don't want to hurt Digital's feelings more than I already have.
I care too much.