FEMINIST ONLY: "Modern" Feminism. What is it?

[Riverwolf]

She is this generation's Easy Scapegoat. Gloria Steinem was Second Wave's top Most Hated Feminist, and now Anita Sarkeesian is brought up with a lot of ire.

Usually, when somebody makes people that angry, where any backlash she receives is seen as even just a little bit deserving, I get the idea that her rhetoric has hit a sweet spot somewhere. Nobody thinks she's the equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church. That's for sure. But she just really really annoys people in the gaming world.

I'll repeat that....she's really really annoying.

She isn't threatening anybody. She isn't campaigning for office on a platform that wishes to enforce more taxes on gamers or anything penalizing like that. She's a vlogger who is speaking her unpopular opinions about gaming. It's interesting that once a threat was made on a campus she was supposed to speak at, suddenly her critics look the other way from the behavior of their comrades. Because - again - what she says about various tropes that exist in gaming is MORE egregious and horrible than anybody beating her face up on an app, threatening to kill her, or threatening to kill people who attend her talks.

However, for people who actually read feminist literature, or at least the cliff notes, typically Andrea Dworkin or the S.C.U.M. Manifesto is brought up as examples of how bad feminism really is. It's pretty impressive how little many of the harshest critics actually pay attention to what the majority of feminists actually talk about or write about.

Indeed. Thing is, if her opinions are unpopular or annoying, I don't see any significant distinction between that, and the unpopular opinions of Ben "Yahtzee" Crowshaw or Noah "The Spoony One" Antwiler, the former of whom harshly critiques many popular games, and the latter of whom got most of his popularity by harshly ranting about beloved (if divisive) Final Fantasy VIII. Okay, sure, these guys are entertainers as well as critics, and so their opinions and expressions thereof are often exaggerated for comedic effect, but they're still genuine opinions.

And believe me, Yahtzee calling Ocarina of Time and Super Mario 64 pieces of ****, even though he was being somewhat facetious, personally hurt me far more than anything Sarkeesian ever said.

I really need to read up more on feminist theory and literature. Most of my exposure comes from word-of-mouth.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Indeed. Thing is, if her opinions are unpopular or annoying, I don't see any significant distinction between that, and the unpopular opinions of Ben "Yahtzee" Crowshaw or Noah "The Spoony One" Antwiler, the former of whom harshly critiques many popular games, and the latter of whom got most of his popularity by harshly ranting about beloved (if divisive) Final Fantasy VIII. Okay, sure, these guys are entertainers as well as critics, and so their opinions and expressions thereof are often exaggerated for comedic effect, but they're still genuine opinions.

Ha! Never heard of them. Do they receive any death threats, out of curiosity? Is this a gaming thing of doxxing or threatening?

And believe me, Yahtzee calling Ocarina of Time and Super Mario 64 pieces of ****, even though he was being somewhat facetious, personally hurt me far more than anything Sarkeesian ever said.

Sarkeesian was called out for not spreading the word about a porn actress who was brutally raped in her home. I understand the anger for the lack of response, but to be perfectly honest, I didn't see any links to the actresses crowdfunding site in the Roosh V forums either....all they did was express how ticked off they were at Sarkeesian. Even here, when feminists were brought up as being full of ****, it was a feminist who entered the link for the porn actress' crowdfunding site into the thread so that the thread participants could donate if they chose to. Interesting, no?

I really need to read up more on feminist theory and literature. Most of my exposure comes from word-of-mouth.

Have fun! It can get heady at times, depending on the source material. But there are lots and lots and lots to choose from. Lately, I've been getting my nose into anarcha-feminist literature and history to see where some of the hard-core revolutionaries around the world influenced some of the American Second Wave movement.

My first literature was when I was a kid reading Gloria Steinem in the '70s. Ms Magazine was ALWAYS lying around somewhere in our house, so I read that mag quite a bit. Then I read a couple of her books that my mother had, and once I got into college, I read Frieden's "The Feminine Mystique" and Simone de Beauvoir's "The Second Sex." I was well versed in Second Wave literature and rhetoric by then.

Eventually, college in the '90s for me also introduced Anita Hill and her case against Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas for sexual harassment, and Hill being questioned in a manner that was as if SHE was on trial and not the other way around opened the eyes to how sexual harassment, street harassment, and the intersectionality of women of color and especially lesbian, bisexual, and trans women became more and more important in my reading.

There are a LOT of choices out there. Nobody needs to do what I did. But I'm offering this up to show that the volume of writings offer feminist study as a process, and not a simple definition to be read on wikipedia.

 

[Riverwolf]

Ha! Never heard of them. Do they receive any death threats, out of curiosity? Is this a gaming thing of doxxing or threatening?

Not anywhere near to the degree that Sarkeesian gets. And that's my point of bringing them up. The content is comparably "offensive", if it can be considered "offensive" at all.

Sarkeesian was called out for not spreading the word about a porn actress who was brutally raped in her home. I understand the anger for the lack of response, but to be perfectly honest, I didn't see any links to the actresses crowdfunding site in the Roosh V forums either....all they did was express how ticked off they were at Sarkeesian. Even here, when feminists were brought up as being full of ****, it was a feminist who entered the link for the porn actress' crowdfunding site into the thread so that the thread participants could donate if they chose to. Interesting, no?

Heh.

Honestly, from what I could tell, her reacting with anger at a perceived negligence of injustice was a pretty feminist thing to do.

Have fun! It can get heady at times, depending on the source material. But there are lots and lots and lots to choose from. Lately, I've been getting my nose into anarcha-feminist literature and history to see where some of the hard-core revolutionaries around the world influenced some of the American Second Wave movement.

My first literature was when I was a kid reading Gloria Steinem in the '70s. Ms Magazine was ALWAYS lying around somewhere in our house, so I read that mag quite a bit. Then I read a couple of her books that my mother had, and once I got into college, I read Frieden's "The Feminine Mystique" and Simone de Beauvoir's "The Second Sex." I was well versed in Second Wave literature and rhetoric by then.

Eventually, college in the '90s for me also introduced Anita Hill and her case against Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas for sexual harassment, and Hill being questioned in a manner that was as if SHE was on trial and not the other way around opened the eyes to how sexual harassment, street harassment, and the intersectionality of women of color and especially lesbian, bisexual, and trans women became more and more important in my reading.

There are a LOT of choices out there. Nobody needs to do what I did. But I'm offering this up to show that the volume of writings offer feminist study as a process, and not a simple definition to be read on wikipedia.

Indeed, it is. ^_^ That's definitely been the impression I've gotten from active feminists, as opposed to the people who seem to actively oppose it (which I choose to separate in my mind from the people who choose not to identify as "feminist" for whatever reason).

 

[Penumbra]

The first thing that pops into my mind personally when I hear "modern feminism" is third wave feminism.

But I think as others have noted here, the phrase itself is probably most often used as a silencing tool or to basically say that feminism has gone too far. Like not only do we want to vote and stuff but we also want to be able to serve in combat if we want or have discussions on male gaze in media and its detrimental social effects.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

The first thing that pops into my mind personally when I hear "modern feminism" is third wave feminism.

It could be third wave, but I've noticed a lot of hostility toward second wave feminist talking points as well.

But I think as others have noted here, the phrase itself is probably most often used as a silencing tool or to basically say that feminism has gone too far. Like not only do we want to vote and stuff but we also want to be able to serve in combat if we want or have discussions on male gaze in media and its detrimental social effects.

Well, we've certainly...once again...ticked off a few folks with the existence of this thread or have convinced them that our discussions mean nothing more than echo chambers.

It's happened many times, but some folks think this thread is something personal. It isn't. The number of people here who have heard the phrase numerous times proves that it isn't a one time thing or this thread isn't just about one member who said something once.

I know who's lurking here, btw. And I know what y'all like to do with the threads here. *waves at the haters*

 

[Riverwolf]

Well, we've certainly...once again...ticked off a few folks with the existence of this thread or have convinced them that our discussions mean nothing more than echo chambers.

How dare we talk amongst ourselves about various issues?

 

[SomeRandom]

Okay I know this is an old thread, but if I may. (Actually can I bring up things I have against certain sects of feminism? Not all feminism mind you. I'm a little unclear if this is going to get me moderated. I got moderated last time, but I'll admit I was responding out of anger. Is this the place where I can bring up gripes against "feminism?" If not please direct me to the thread where I can post this. Or move my post there if you can do that.)

Now disclaimer, of course I'm all about equality, treating people with respect blah blah blah. Obviously I'm for women's rights, as I am for men's rights and every human being's rights.

First off, I'll be honest, I'm still trying to figure out what feminism is as a whole.

But to me when people speak of "Modern Feminism" what they are referring to is Third Wave Intersectional Feminism, their "gender studies" alongside their SJW white knights cohorts. That or "tumblr Feminists."
Or as I like to call them, the offended brigade. You know? Those hypocritical ******* types with the "trigger warning" crap and the "microaggressions" crap, who get offended on your behalf over very inane crap (and being a member of several "minority classes" as well as a victim of sexual abuse, they do pretend to speak on my behalf. And I hate when they do this with a fiery passion.)

As to Anita Sarkeesian, no she's not just an annoyance. She's a professional victim. And that's what pisses me off the most about her. She claims to speak for strong independent women but is pretty much paid to be a Damsel in Distress. And the fact that this woman claims to represent me and my concerns about gaming is quite disheartening to people like me.
She whinges and whines about some troll posts against her. And I've read some of them, they're basically either just a few of the generic "hur hur go die" posts which most people laugh at because they know it's just a pathetic troll, or in conversations where the poster is clearly exasperated and at the end of their tether.
Then says that she has basically become numb to them and doesn't respond to them. And it's just like, make up your mind lady!!! Are these "online harassers" so bad that you seriously have to go to the UN to get them to protect you (no seriously http://www.polygon.com/2015/9/25/93...men-cyber-violence-anita-sarkeesian-zoe-quinn) or are you just like "yeah, the internetz, so I can just ignore them."
And what death threats? That bomb threat letter that even the police said was not a legitimate threat? Please. I'll grant you that out of the possible millions of online users there will be threats of death and rape and that is absolutely awful. But it's the internet and she's a prominent figure. Did you expect anything less?

And what about TotalBiscuit? A man who has cancer and the SJWs in an arranged attack allegedly bombarded him with messages like "oh I hope your cancer is painful." "I'm glad you have cancer you sexist scum." "I hope your cancer kills you" etc and he gets this as he's going under cancer treatment. (This goes beyond a few troll posts, this is essentially a harassment campaign, before anyone accuses me of favouritism. Both are wrong things to do.) Where is the feminist outrage for this appalling behaviour? Where?
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Ftotalbiscuit%2Fenough
What about the Thunderf00t debacle? Granted I find his criticisms against Anita rather superficial and lacking in proper artistic analysis. But when he said something to the effect of, hey my dad died so my content upload schedule will be a bit hazy, A couple of Youtube Feminists practically accused him of trying to gain sympathy through lying and mocking his dad's cancer. Which is beyond despicable. Why is it I only see the antifeminist women denounce this?

When he criticised Islam and the Atheist + movement saying that "modern" feminism is hurting the community, Laughing Witch and her cronies, again in a clearly organised massive harassment campaign, sent letters to the police, the Newspapers and his employers calling him a Nazi, a misogynist, a racist and demanded action be taken. When they did this they went on record (as in on their Youtube channels which I think are taken down by now) saying he deserved this treatment, displayed pride and even said (paraphrasing here) it's not our fault if he loses his job, he made the videos. Then in an instant Karmic backlash, due to Tf00t's response video in which he showed footage of the original LW video where she herself revealed her personal information with pride, her husband's business got so much heat on their Yelp page that they effectively had to remove it. And then cried victim and wanted sympathy and accused everyone who pretty much said "hey you made your own bed" of being sexist.

I think she's made a halfhearted apology since.
The only women I have seen damning this are not feminists, but antifeminist women. Granted this is mostly inane Youtube crap (albeit with actual serious real world consequences potentially) so I don't begrudge those outside of YT for not knowing about this. But still there are feminists on YT, where was their outrage? Where?

What about when the Fine Young Capitalists basically got bullied by so called "feminists" for having the gall for trying to give resources to women developers to make women's video games and then wanting to give the proceeds to charity? Again, the only people I have seen stand up against this appalling behaviour are self identified antifeminists! (And oddly enough 4Chan.)

Then there's Zoe what's her face. A woman who abused her boyfriend, cheated on him multiple times and placed a legal gag order on him to the point where he can't legally mention her name online. And incidentally kind of the spark which ignited the Gamergate thing.
She has allegedly encouraged her followers to dox anyone who disagrees with them and claimed that the people with actual depression who criticised "depression quest" as not being honestly representative of actual depression were sexist pigs and were basically harassing her.

Of course then there's #Notyourshield, in which a bunch of various minorities stood in support and solidarity of Gamergate only to be basically called sock puppets and have their voices squashed by the SJW and Anti Gamer Gate feminist crowd (mind you these are the same people who claim to speak on behalf of minorities. Arrogance much?)

Then there's people like Erin Prizzey (seriously, look her up.) The woman who opened the first battered women's shelter in 1971, not as a feminist mind you, but it was soon hijacked by the hardcore branch of feminism. Then she had to basically leave her home because she received death threats, bomb threats, was harassed constantly (I'm pretty sure her pet was killed) and this is all physical stuff, because this happened before the Internet was created. She received ACTUAL harassment. You know what her crime was? Saying that men also experience spousal violence, that women can be the perpetrators and that some women were not innocent victims of their violent boyfriends/husbands. Rather they themselves may be violent or need therapy to get to a place where they no longer seek violent relationships. (The whole cycle of violence thing.) She still advocates for the rights of humans, according to her even the earlier feminists weren't fighting for women, rather for supremacy and in the early days of such refuges she had men working alongside women and children. Why? Because it was therapeutic to victims!!!

Then you have sensationalist drama like the word "too" being sexist and similar crap espoused by "modern feminists" and are not really challenged by moderate feminists, do you really want to tell me that people just want to "silence" their opponents by just saying "Modern feminism is the ebil?" That people are not just reacting to the most publicised, more extreme version of feminism (which I'll grant you doesn't reflect the entire movement?) You seriously can't see where this backlash is coming from? Really?

This is what "modern feminism" looks like to many people, RadFems, infighting, SJW nonsense, dogmatic views and telling everyone to "check their privilege." Is this accurate? I honestly don't know anymore. The mainstream media isn't exactly reliable when it comes to feminism or Gamergate, I have YouTube channels telling me (very convincingly and using evidence) that this is what the movement has turned into. I have SJW types accusing me of being racist against my own race, sexist for enjoying games and I have even seen very prominent feminists basically ejected from "modern feminism" for daring to disagree with the "the patriarchy is evil" narrative. Like what am I supposed to make of this?
What are people supposed to make of this?