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Few questions about religions

F

fundamentals

New Member
Mock Turtle said:
This is simply not true, and even if most non-humans are driven by instinct, this applies to much of human behaviour too. Such that it is only a portion of our behaviours that involves intelligence - with much of this being apparent because we as a species have the advantage of complex symbolic language, and seemingly being the only species to have invented such as far as we know.

We are still in the very early stages of understanding what goes on in the minds of non-human life, and if we refer to intelligence as just the way that humans use such we will not get very far in even understanding what intelligence others might have. Given that the behaviours of so many species does seem to imply intelligence rather than simple instinct at work - even if much of this might be of the 'oh, look at what I have found' sort - and which is much the same as what humans do all too often. That is, recognising a solution when playing about with things. And we have to look at the aims of intelligence - if there is such - in solving whatever problems arise.

The fact is that we have a long way to go before we understand what goes on in any non-human mind.
Click to expand...
You can see it concretely? Why do you need a long way to understand it? They are just trying to SURVIVE. Because they are programmed as some living things which is just trying to survive.
 
SalixIncendium

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
fundamentals said:
They are not intelligent. How can they? They are all driven by instinct, not intelligence.
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You may which to update your understanding of non-human animals before posting misinformation.

I'll just leave these here for you:


www.britannica.com

Animal intelligence | animal behavior | Britannica

Other articles where animal intelligence is discussed: animal learning: Complex problem solving: …that animals might differ in intelligence, with those more closely related to humans sharing more of their intellectual abilities, is commonly traced back to Charles Darwin. This is because the...
www.britannica.com www.britannica.com


www.nationalgeographic.com

Animal Intelligence

Related Topic Page | National Geographic
www.nationalgeographic.com www.nationalgeographic.com
 
F

fundamentals

New Member
SalixIncendium said:
You may which to update your understanding of non-human animals before posting misinformation.

I'll just leave these here for you:


www.britannica.com

Animal intelligence | animal behavior | Britannica

Other articles where animal intelligence is discussed: animal learning: Complex problem solving: …that animals might differ in intelligence, with those more closely related to humans sharing more of their intellectual abilities, is commonly traced back to Charles Darwin. This is because the...
www.britannica.com www.britannica.com


www.nationalgeographic.com

Animal Intelligence

Related Topic Page | National Geographic
www.nationalgeographic.com www.nationalgeographic.com
Click to expand...
So you are telling me that animals will go to heaven or hell because of what they do? no matter how smart they are in their own way, they are not smart enough to read the holy book of a “creator” and pay allegiance to him. My point here is that animals live only by survival instinct.
 
SalixIncendium

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
fundamentals said:
So you are telling me that animals will go to heaven or hell because of what they do?
Click to expand...
I'm trying to wrap my head around how you arrived at that conclusion from what I said.

fundamentals said:
no matter how smart they are in their own way, they are not smart enough to read the holy book of a “creator” and pay allegiance to him.
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Reading holy books and believing in a creator are not requisite to being religious, having a spiritual worldview, or having experiences one might consider 'religious' or 'spiritual.'
 
Mock Turtle

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
fundamentals said:
You can see it concretely? Why do you need a long way to understand it? They are just trying to SURVIVE. Because they are programmed as some living things which is just trying to survive.
Click to expand...
We are all programmed to survive, and if there is one universal meaning of life it is this.

I just suggest you seriously explore the internet as to what we know currently about animal intelligence and behaviour and what we are discovering so as to expand any old beliefs. Why is it slow progress? Because, as might be expected, observing the behaviour of any particular non-human species takes time and effort, given that observing any in captivity is hardly likely to reflect their reality. Even doing so for those human societies that might appear 'primitive' to an 'enlightened' one might produce much the same - and perhaps leading them to being wiped out.

There are just too many examples of various non-human species using intelligence - from squirrels learning how to overcome various obstacles to food (why do so when food might be more easily obtainable elsewhere?), to whales cooperating in various ways so as to consume their prey, to great apes understanding humour, to so many species coordinating their activities during a hunt, to so many species that remember vast numbers of locations as to food resources, as to our canine friends that seem to show empathy (personally experienced), and as to a few species that can learn a language not native to that species - a sign or symbolic language perhaps for chimpanzees or bonobos, or even dogs.

These all negate the notion that animals just react from instinct - unless so many have the same instincts as humans.

PS And I missed out the communications between various species that we have still to decode so as to understand more about any societies that do form. Why form societies if this doesn't also perhaps imply intelligence?
 
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Secret Chief

Secret Chief

Veteran Member
Last edited:
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
fundamentals said:
So you are telling me that animals will go to heaven or hell because of what they do? no matter how smart they are in their own way, they are not smart enough to read the holy book of a “creator” and pay allegiance to him. My point here is that animals live only by survival instinct.
Click to expand...
Animals are too smart to read holy books like the Bible and pay allegiance to them.

Animals do not only live by the survival instinct. That is religious gobbledygook.
Animals are capable of love and sacrifice, more capable than most humans.

Regarding instincts, humans are supposed to rise above their instincts but most humans live for the things of the flesh.
At least animals don't pretend to be more than they are.
 
osgart

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Trailblazer said:
Animals are too smart to read holy books like the Bible and pay allegiance to them.

Animals do not only live by the survival instinct. That is religious gobbledygook.
Animals are capable of love and sacrifice, more capable than most humans.

Regarding instincts, humans are supposed to rise above their instincts but most humans live for the things of the flesh.
At least animals don't pretend to be more than they are.
Click to expand...
I know my Samoyed Husky is quite the peacekeeper when he stood and growled at my nephew for losing his temper.
 
SalixIncendium

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
F

fundamentals

New Member
Secret Chief

Secret Chief

Veteran Member
fundamentals said:
Evolving from apes does not make us apes. We were apes, but now we are humans. Different species.
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Incorrect. We are apes. One species within a family. Go talk to a zoo keeper.

"The family Hominidae (hominids), the great apes, include four genera comprising three extant species of orangutans and their subspecies, two extant species of gorillas and their subspecies, two extant species of panins (bonobos and chimpanzees) and their subspecies, humans in a single extant subspecies."

- Ape - Wikipedia
 
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