Fictional Life

[The Hammer]

" The mind is a spectacularly inventive, if wildly inconsistent, storyteller, generating a continual stream of explanations, speculations, and interpretations, including of our own thoughts and actions. And these stories are so fluent and convincing that we often mistake them for reports from a shadowy inner world. But introspection is not some strange inner perception; it is the human imagination turned upon itself."

We are fictional characters of our own creation


Are we just fictional characters, constantly lying to ourselves to make us feel like we understand more then we really do?

How do we break this pattern?

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

" The mind is a spectacularly inventive, if wildly inconsistent, storyteller, generating a continual stream of explanations, speculations, and interpretations, including of our own thoughts and actions. And these stories are so fluent and convincing that we often mistake them for reports from a shadowy inner world. But introspection is not some strange inner perception; it is the human imagination turned upon itself."

We are fictional characters of our own creation


Are we just fictional characters, constantly lying to ourselves to make us feel like we understand more then we really do?

How do we break this pattern?

I like to play devil's advocate against my own ideas, and beliefs. I think it helps with humility. This does not save me from continuously falling victim to the pattern you speak of, but I'd like to think it reduces the frequency? Probably not, eh?

I try to accept that I, as a human, am completely capable of the worst atrocities any man has ever committed. Of course, that gives credence that I should be capable of the highest benevolence achievable as man, which should be a prime aspiration any of us focus on and aim towards.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The thought experiment where: You imagine yourself as the German soldier circa 1944, struggling to put food on the table for your spouse and children. You've been tasked to opening a heavy steel door, counting a number of the individuals lined up and directing them into the structure. You shut the door and hear the terror within.

Do you,
A) In a bold and inspiring attempt at heroism refuse to the SS commanding officer telling him, "You can take this job and shove it!"
He either shoots you as soon as the sentence leaves your lips, or commands you be thrown in the furnace with the next group. Your family starves and the next soldier starts counting heads.

B) Think about the family at home relying on you to bring food home later tonight, and close the heavy door again?
Live with these horrors and inhumanities which you assisted in and never tried to stand up to? Live with the despair, if you can. Likely never mentioning them to anyone.

I find it pleasing to imagine myself a laconic speaking, no crap taking, butt kicking, one-man-army who can take on the world blindfolded with a hand tied behind his back...
Of course, I'm pretty sure, I would count the heads, and close the door.

 

[The Hammer]

I like to play devil's advocate against my own ideas, and beliefs. I think it helps with humility. This does not save me from continuously falling victim to the pattern you speak of, but I'd like to think it reduces the frequency? Probably not, eh?

I try to accept that I, as a human, am completely capable of the worst atrocities any man has ever committed. Of course, that gives credence that I should be capable of the highest benevolence achievable as man, which should be a prime aspiration any of us focus on and aim towards.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The thought experiment where: You imagine yourself as the German soldier circa 1944, struggling to put food on the table for your spouse and children. You've been tasked to opening a heavy steel door, counting a number of the individuals lined up and directing them into the structure. You shut the door and hear the terror within.

Do you,
A) In a bold and inspiring attempt at heroism refuse to the SS commanding officer telling him, "You can take this job and shove it!"
He either shoots you as soon as the sentence leaves your lips, or commands you be thrown in the furnace with the next group. Your family starves and the next soldier starts counting heads.

B) Think about the family at home relying on you to bring food home later tonight, and close the heavy door again?
Live with these horrors and inhumanities which you assisted in and never tried to stand up to? Live with the despair, if you can. Likely never mentioning them to anyone.

I find it pleasing to imagine myself a laconic speaking, no crap taking, butt kicking, one-man-army who can take on the world blindfolded with a hand tied behind his back...
Of course, I'm pretty sure, I would count the heads, and close the door.

“It's like everyone tells a story about themselves inside their own head. Always. All the time. That story makes you what you are. We build ourselves out of that story.”

--Patrick Rothfuss, author

 

[Heyo]

" The mind is a spectacularly inventive, if wildly inconsistent, storyteller, generating a continual stream of explanations, speculations, and interpretations, including of our own thoughts and actions. And these stories are so fluent and convincing that we often mistake them for reports from a shadowy inner world. But introspection is not some strange inner perception; it is the human imagination turned upon itself."

We are fictional characters of our own creation


Are we just fictional characters, constantly lying to ourselves to make us feel like we understand more then we really do?

How do we break this pattern?

Realism is the ability to distinguish the stories from reality, not the absence of stories.

 

[The Hammer]

Realism is the ability to distinguish the stories from reality, not the absence of stories.

Our Stories create reality.

 

[Heyo]

Our Stories create reality.

That is a view I'm strongly opposing. Stories may change our behaviour and our behaviour may change reality but reality doesn't change with the stories. Stories also may change your perception of reality but reality just stays the same.

 

[The Hammer]

Stories also may change your perception of reality but reality just stays the same.

That's what I'm contesting.

If our perception of reality has changed. Then to Us reality has changed. And therefore reality has changed. There isn't much else outside of the way we perceive things. That's what makes it important or not.

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

Are we just fictional characters, constantly lying to ourselves to make us feel like we understand more then we really do?

How do we break this pattern?

This reminds me of mythology...
Does the pattern need to be broken?

 

[The Hammer]

Does the pattern need to be broken?

Fate leads the willing and drags along the reluctant. -Seneca

 

[Heyo]

That's what I'm contesting.

If our perception of reality has changed. Then to Us reality has changed. And therefore reality has changed. There isn't much else outside of the way we perceive things. That's what makes it important or not.

I've bolded the crucial part.
Which island was the biggest before Greenland was discovered?
Was Greenland not there before we knew it was?
Do palaeontologists change the past when they unearth a bone of an up-to-then unknown species?
A single reality is the only assumption that can lead us to any consent.
Even though we don't (can't) know reality, we can explore it to ever deeper precision and (except maybe from some quantum weirdness we don't understand yet) reality never failed us. We can communicate our perceptions and we can come to an agreement. That wouldn't be if reality wasn't real.

 

[PureX]

"Reality" is a story. We cannot escape that. But we can at least be aware of that, and allow for reinterpretation.

 

[Heyo]

Realism is the ability to distinguish the stories from reality, not the absence of stories.

Addendum: Delusion is the inability to distinguish the stories from reality.

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

Fate leads the willing and drags along the reluctant. -Seneca

Not sure what you're trying to say with this.
Do you think believing to be the master of your own fate redeems you from the the point written in the OP?
To me it just shows that some people value power and/or autonomy more, whereas others seem to put more emphasis on submission and humility.
That is the "lie" I tell myself.
I don't like to call it lying though, as I don't believe I'm deceiving myself, I'm creating order in my mind by slapping labels on things.
Of course this could be seen as just another lie.
But if all we know is lies, then what does truth mean?

 

[PureX]

That is a view I'm strongly opposing. Stories may change our behaviour and our behaviour may change reality but reality doesn't change with the stories. Stories also may change your perception of reality but reality just stays the same.

But THAT reality remains a mystery to us. Because all we can know of it is the story we create to explain it to ourselves.

 

[Stevicus]

" The mind is a spectacularly inventive, if wildly inconsistent, storyteller, generating a continual stream of explanations, speculations, and interpretations, including of our own thoughts and actions. And these stories are so fluent and convincing that we often mistake them for reports from a shadowy inner world. But introspection is not some strange inner perception; it is the human imagination turned upon itself."

We are fictional characters of our own creation


Are we just fictional characters, constantly lying to ourselves to make us feel like we understand more then we really do?

How do we break this pattern?

The article raises some interesting points about the imperfections of the human mind, particularly when it comes to memory. Language is also imperfect, but that's all we really have to explain our reality.

The article seemed to focus more on motives for people's actions (such as mentioning Anna Karenina's suicide in that novel) which seems to be the basis for "fictional reality."

Death itself is a real enough concept that doesn't seem fictitious in any way, and I think most people are capable of telling the difference between fictional characters and people who actually live or lived (although there are some who can't and believe their favorite TV show is 'reality').

But there are those who might lie about their motives, especially if their actions and choices impact negatively upon others.

 

[Heyo]

But THAT reality remains a mystery to us. Because all we can know of it is the story we create to explain it to ourselves.

The fact that we don't know everything doesn't mean that we don't know anything.
We only can have testable, communicable models of reality because reality is real.

All that "perception is reality" BS was/is a ploy by the psychiatrists to bolster the relevance of their profession. And it is loved by the politicians, too. One even said "repeat a lie often enough and it will become accepted truth". That is magical thinking, altering reality by altering the perception. And, of cause, it is loved by all who wish magic would function.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

And it is loved by the politicians, too. One even said "repeat a lie often enough and it will become accepted truth". That is magical thinking, altering reality by altering the perception.

Somehow it works though... Is it the gullibility and uneducated/unintelligence of the populace, that gives validity to such claims, you think? Or is it too late and the problem is the power they've accrued is at the point we cannot stop them from doing whatever they wish? :-\

 

[Heyo]

Somehow it works though... Is it the gullibility and uneducated/unintelligence of the populace, that gives validity to such claims, you think? Or is it too late and the problem is the power they've accrued is at the point we cannot stop them from doing whatever they wish? :-\

It works because people want it to work. If they can alter reality, so can we, magic works. I don't know if that is gullibility, ignorance of lack of intelligence but it is pretty human and pretty common.

 

[Nakosis]

" The mind is a spectacularly inventive, if wildly inconsistent, storyteller, generating a continual stream of explanations, speculations, and interpretations, including of our own thoughts and actions. And these stories are so fluent and convincing that we often mistake them for reports from a shadowy inner world. But introspection is not some strange inner perception; it is the human imagination turned upon itself."

We are fictional characters of our own creation


Are we just fictional characters, constantly lying to ourselves to make us feel like we understand more then we really do?

How do we break this pattern?

I suppose I've gotten to the point that I don't trust these stories or a least view them skeptically.

I accept that my identity is mostly fictional but that fiction is also useful. Others buy into the fiction which creates some useful expectation and privilege.
It also provides an ideal that I sometimes feel motivated to live up to.

Maybe I create myself the hero of my life and I wonder if that has a necessary psychological element to it. A need to justify myself and my actions.
Whereas mostly I'm reacting to deep seated unconscious impulses that I really have no explanation for.

 

[Rival]

Do we want to break the pattern?