Final Authority

[James2028]

There is no such thing as " the bible " .

There are over 300 English Bibles
which do not match in content,
volume or doctrine. Additionally,
there are billions of bibles.

Be sincere.
What book are you calling " the bible " ?

 

[sojourner]

Here is my first point.
It is dishonest to call the contents
of a book infallible scripture given
by inspiration of God, when you
actually believe that only the original
autographs were infallible scripture
given by inspiration of God.

There are no original autographs.
There never was an original Bible containing the original autographs.

Of course. But infallibility is rather a red herring, isn’t it? The ancients weren’t concerned with word-for-word copying. Much of this was in the form of oral transmission for centuries before anything was written down. We know that a lot of the OT stuff was “borrowed” from other cultures and earlier religions. The Synoptics were likely oral stories before being written down.

This stuff was never meant to be infallible. Infallibility as a criterion tortures the texts.

 

[sojourner]

There is no such thing as
" the bible " .

There are hundreds of Bibles
which do not match in content,
volume or doctrine.

Also lifted verbatim from another site.
“The Bible” depends on which canon one is referring to. “The Bible” is largely an ideal, rather than a specific, literary object.

 

[sojourner]

I am not a KJV Only.
I am not an Original Only.
I believe all scripture is given
by inspiration of God.
I believe the Lord preserved his words
and purified them in a furnace of earth,
seven times.

That’s incongruent with your posts on other forums.

What you “believe” is irrelevant. What “is” is what matters.

 

[sojourner]

It is dishonest to call a book
infallible scripture given by
inspiration of God, when you actually
believe that only the original autographs
were infallible scripture given by
inspiration of God.
KJV by good words and fair speeches
deceive the hearts of the simple

You’re creating straw men. All of this is largely fantasy.

I think you’re largely making stuff up as you go along, based on your other interactions elsewhere. I believe I detect troll smell...

 

[James2028]

No seriously, no name calling.
Be sincere. What book are you
calling " the bible " ?

 

[sojourner]

There is no such thing as " the bible " .

There are over 300 English Bibles
which do not match in content,
volume or doctrine. Additionally,
there are billions of bibles.

Be sincere.
What book are you calling " the bible " ?

You’re obfuscating. You know what I mean.

 

[sojourner]

No seriously, no name calling.
Be sincere. What book are you
calling " the bible " ?

Don’t prevaricate. You know what a Bible is. A Bible is any of the collections of canonized texts, in various translations.

 

[James2028]

No, not a Bible, you said " the bible " .
Be sincere. Do you mean a mystical
non existent original Bible or a real book ?

 

[James2028]

I already know exactly what you mean.
A mystical non existent book, just like superstitious transubstantiation.

 

[James2028]

I've completed eighth year theology
courses at both Catholic and Baptist
Seminaries. There are two lines of Bibles, Syrian and Alexandrian. They do not match in content, volume or doctrine.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I believe the Bible, God's Word is the final authority.

How could the Bible be a higher authority than the body that canonized the Bible?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sola Scriptura vs. Sola Ecclesia

Which groups do you think proclaim "sola ecclesia?"

(The Catholic Church proclaims prima scriptura)

 

[James2028]

Please read the previous posts.

Psalm 12:6-7
6 The words of the Lord are pure words
as silver tried in a furnace of earth
purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them O Lord,
thou shalt preserve them from
this generation for ever.


The Lord preserved his words,
not the church, and purified them
seven times.

 

[James2028]

Catholicism teaches that popes
speak excathedra, infallible.
The precedence is given to
Codex Vaticanus with sitzimleben
hermeneutics.

 

[James2028]

The critical issue is salvation.

Catholicism teaches that salvation
is through the Catholic sacraments.

The scriptures teach that salvation
is by grace through faith alone.

 

[Desert Snake]

We are talking about 'translations'.
So, one is saying, the translations is the best, or such.

I like, as far as I have read, at least one other translation, that seems very correct my estimation, so is that sola scriptura? Some of the verses are worded differently.

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[9-10ths_Penguin]

Please read the previous posts.

FYI: using the quote function will let people know who you're replying to.

Psalm 12:6-7
6 The words of the Lord are pure words
as silver tried in a furnace of earth
purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them O Lord,
thou shalt preserve them from
this generation for ever.


The Lord preserved his words,
not the church, and purified them
seven times.

Who decided what are and aren't "the words of the Lord?" The church.

Who actually did the work to preserve them? The church.

If you want to argue that it was the Lord who guided the church to do these things, I don't see why this would imply why we should give less regard to the church.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Which groups do you think proclaim "sola ecclesia?"

(The Catholic Church proclaims prima scriptura)

They proclaim that maybe, but they don't necessarily follow it. Alot of Catholics almost fawn over the Pope, which btw is deeply heretical. Jesus is our High Priest. And Galatians 1:8-9 warns us that anyone declaring something contrary to the Gospel is under a curse! What do you think the Pope does every time they invoke papal infallibility?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

They proclaim that maybe, but they don't necessarily follow it.

Because Protestant churches don't fall short of the standard they set for themselves?

Alot of Catholics almost fawn over the Pope, which btw is deeply heretical. Jesus is our High Priest.

I see a lot of pastor-fawning in other churches, too.

Jesus also condemned focusing on the daults of others, but here you are pointing out motes in the eye of the Catholic Church. Do you think we'd find a beam in your eye if we judged you?

And Galatians 1:8-9 warns us that anyone declaring something contrary to the Gospel is under a curse! What do you think the Pope does every time they invoke papal infallibility?

Which ex cathedra declarations do you think are contrary to the Gospels? There are very few ex cathedra statements, so I trust you had a specific one in mind... right?