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[Subduction Zone]

Would you like to discuss the difference between knowledge and belief? You did say that you could demonstrate the difference, and I would be interested in seeing you do this.

Yes? No?

I said that I understood the difference between knowledge and belief. Knowledge is demonstrable. So when I say that I know that life is the product of evolution I can show how we know that. Belief is just accepting something as true. It may be supported by evidence it may not be. Belief is the larger category, knowledge is a subset of it.

 

[samtonga43]

I said that I understood the difference between knowledge and belief. Knowledge is demonstrable. So when I say that I know that life is the product of evolution I can show how we know that. Belief is just accepting something as true. It may be supported by evidence it may not be. Belief is the larger category, knowledge is a subset of it.

I think we can only use the word knowledge if our reason for belief is not just a good reason, but a conclusive reason—enough to make the proposition certain.
Would you agree?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think we can only use the word knowledge if our reason for belief is not just a good reason, but a conclusive reason—enough to make the proposition certain.
Would you agree?

Yes. That should have been rather obvious.

 

[samtonga43]

Yes. That should have been rather obvious.

OK. Now, you said that you had the ability to demonstrate the difference between belief and knowledge. Will you do this, please?

 

[Subduction Zone]

OK. Now, you said that you had the ability to demonstrate the difference between belief and knowledge. Will you do this, please?

No. There is no need to. Who is here to judge? It is way off topic of this thread. I have done so many times elsewhere.

 

[samtonga43]

No. There is no need to. Who is here to judge? It is way off topic of this thread. I have done so many times elsewhere.

Yes, I had a feeling this would be your answer.

But maybe you could answer this question; are you a hard atheist or a soft atheist? In other words, do you know that there are no gods, or do you believe there are no gods?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, I had a feeling this would be your answer.

But maybe you could answer this question; are you a hard atheist or a soft atheist? In other words, do you know that there are no gods, or do you believe there are no gods?

Yes, because it was a reasonable one.

You need to support your bogus claims first. Why do you keep forgetting that? I answered you question and told you how could check it out. Nothing more was needed.

What makes you think that your beliefs are rational?

 

[samtonga43]

You need to support your bogus claims first.

Bogus claims? Do you mean claims that you know are bogus, or claims that you believe are bogus?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Bogus claims? Do you mean claims that you know are bogus, or claims that you believe are bogus?

Sorry, your turn to answer questions.

You should not get so angry. You only harm your own case when you react in this manner.

 

[paarsurrey]

" the tenants, doctrines, beliefs, and teachings of the church first."

Has one tried visiting an Ahmadiyya (peaceful Muslims') Mosque, near you; the tenants, doctrines, beliefs, and teachings of which could be known from the link* given below, please? Right?
Regards
_____________
*Ahmadiyya Muslim Community - Al Islam Online - Official Website

To find the wisdom behind the teachings of Islam, one may like to read a treatise :
The Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam
Right?

Regards

 

[samtonga43]

You should not get so angry. You only harm your own case when you react in this manner.

Here’s what I said:
"Bogus claims? Do you mean claims that you know are bogus, or claims that you believe are bogus?"

What is it about the above that makes you think I am angry, SZ?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Here’s what I said:
"Bogus claims? Do you mean claims that you know are bogus, or claims that you believe are bogus?"

What is it about the above that makes you think I am angry, SZ?

Of course you are. I do not play the game of going back countless posts to look up the context of a claim that you could not refute. But I do believe that you tried to claim that your beliefs are rational. If you have a god belief that puts a heavy burden of proof upon you. The sort of tactics that you are using is of one that wants to avoid the burden of proof.

And your constant ducking and dodging, your false claims about others and the tactics that I just mentioned does indicate anger.

When are you going to start to answer questions?

 

[samtonga43]

Here’s what I said:
"Bogus claims? Do you mean claims that you know are bogus, or claims that you believe are bogus?"
What is it about the above that makes you think I am angry, SZ? Do you know?

Of course you are (angry)

I am really not, SZ This appears to be a case of projection on your part; maybe something to think about if you ever take some time away from this forum. Your critical thinking process is in need of some adjustment, but this makes me sorry for you, not angry.
You know, SZ, you should be aware that when you describe someone as ‘angry’ when they ask you to clarify your accusation of ‘bogus claims’, you come across as somewhat ....... unbalanced.

I do not play the game of going back countless posts to look up the context of a claim that you could not refute.

Looking at the context of a claim is not a ‘game’, SZ. It is what should be done in any discussion. I am surprised that you are not aware of this.

But I do believe that you tried to claim that your beliefs are rational.

Where did I 'try to claim that my beliefs are rational'? (Please note that I am not saying that my beliefs are/are not rational) I just wonder if you are, once more, strawmanning.
So, where did I make this claim?

No more running; no more evasion. Be a man!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Here’s what I said:
"Bogus claims? Do you mean claims that you know are bogus, or claims that you believe are bogus?"
What is it about the above that makes you think I am angry, SZ? Do you know?

It is so odd that when people answer your questions and you don't like them that you pretend that no answer was given. That seems to be a sign of anger.

I am really not, SZ This appears to be a case of projection on your part; maybe something to think about if you ever take some time away from this forum. Your critical thinking process is in need of some adjustment, but this makes me sorry for you, not angry.
You know, SZ, you should be aware that when you describe someone as ‘angry’ when they ask you to clarify your accusation of ‘bogus claims’, you come across as somewhat ....... unbalanced.

Then you really need to try to have a proper discussion. Quit ducking questions, that is a number one sign that you are not happy. I see that you still did everything but to answer my questions. You are of course back to the false accusations again.

Looking at the context of a claim is not a ‘game’, SZ. It is what should be done in any discussion. I am surprised that you are not aware of this.

Where did I 'try to claim that my beliefs are rational'? (Please note that I am not saying that my beliefs are/are not rational) I just wonder if you are, once more, strawmanning.
So, where did I make this claim?

No more running; no more evasion. Be a man!

And there goes another irony meter.

I see that you have still avoided discussing your personal beliefs. There have been no strawman arguments from me. There has been no projection from me. Are you just copying what others said of you in the past. And the ultimate irony is your last sentence.

Let me ask again, the question that you always run away from:

Why are your religious beliefs rational?

 

[samtonga43]

It is so odd that when people answer your questions and you don't like them that you pretend that no answer was given. That seems to be a sign of anger.
Then you really need to try to have a proper discussion. Quit ducking questions, that is a number one sign that you are not happy. I see that you still did everything but to answer my questions. You are of course back to the false accusations again.

***
Let’s retrace our steps:
SZ: Too bad that you do not even understand the difference between knowledge and belief.

SAM: What makes you think that I don't understand the difference between knowledge and belief, SZ?

SZ: Because I have the ability to demonstrate the difference. Do you think that you can?

So, SZ's irrational conclusion is that Sam does not understand the difference between knowledge and belief because SZ has the ability to demonstrate the difference.
This nonsense is from the guy who continually urges other posters to be rational, to think critically, to use logic.

Let’s continue: I ask SZ to do what he said he could do.

SAM: OK. Now, you said that you had the ability to demonstrate the difference between belief and knowledge. Will you do this, please?

SZ: No. There is no need to. Who is here to judge? It is way off topic of this thread. I have done so many times elsewhere.

 

[Subduction Zone]

***
Let’s retrace our steps:
SZ: Too bad that you do not even understand the difference between knowledge and belief.

SAM: What makes you think that I don't understand the difference between knowledge and belief, SZ?

SZ: Because I have the ability to demonstrate the difference. Do you think that you can?

So, SZ's irrational conclusion is that Sam does not understand the difference between knowledge and belief because SZ has the ability to demonstrate the difference.
This nonsense is from the guy who continually urges other posters to be rational, to think critically, to use logic.

No, so wrong. You were not doing too bad until you arrived at a false conclusion. Of course you left your irrational statement that led to this. I wonder why?

Let’s continue: I ask SZ to do what he said he could do.

SAM: OK. Now, you said that you had the ability to demonstrate the difference between belief and knowledge. Will you do this, please?

SZ: No. There is no need to. Who is here to judge? It is way off topic of this thread. I have done so many times elsewhere.

One has to demonstrate that one can be an honest interlocutor to make demands of other. You unfortunately failed a major qualification. You must be willing to answer questions as well. So far you have not. Oh my, another theist that does not know how to use a facepalm properly. Your paraphrase was also not accurate since I told you the sort of threads that you could check out.

Once again you ran away from questions instead of answer them. Why is that?

 

[samtonga43]

No, so wrong. You were not doing too bad until you arrived at a false conclusion. Of course you left your irrational statement that led to this. I wonder why?

No false conclusion there, SZ. It appears that you simply do not understand the illogicity inherent in the following:
SZ has the ability to demonstrate the difference between A. and B.
Therefore
Sam does not understand the difference between knowledge and belief.
Get a grip, SZ. You can do better than this.

Oh my, another theist that does not know how to use a facepalm properly.

I use a facepalm as it is meant to be used – to display embarrassment at ineptitude. In this case – yours.
However, if I had used an emoji in the wrong way (horror of horrors!), is it rational to connect this with theism? You would only be correct if no atheist has ever used an emoji in the wrong way.
SZ, you are obviously not reading with the intent to understand; you are reading with the intent to reply. As a result you continue to obfuscate the issue.

Your paraphrase was also not accurate since I told you the sort of threads that you could check out.

What are you talking about now SZ? What paraphrase? Look again. I quoted your exact words. Are you now denying fact?

One has to demonstrate that one can be an honest interlocutor to make demands of other.

My exact words were, “You said that you had the ability to demonstrate the difference between belief and knowledge. Will you do this, please?”
If you read this as a demand, your comprehension of the written word needs to improve (if you wish to be seen as rational as you keep telling us you are).

Once again you ran away from questions instead of answer them. Why is that?

Oh my.
Have you ever thought of trying to control your projection?

 

[Subduction Zone]

No false conclusion there, SZ. It appears that you simply do not understand the illogicity inherent in the following:
SZ has the ability to demonstrate the difference between A. and B.
Therefore
Sam does not understand the difference between knowledge and belief.
Get a grip, SZ. You can do better than this.


I use a facepalm as it is meant to be used – to display embarrassment at ineptitude. In this case – yours.
However, if I had used an emoji in the wrong way (horror of horrors!), is it rational to connect this with theism? You would only be correct if no atheist has ever used an emoji in the wrong way.
SZ, you are obviously not reading with the intent to understand; you are reading with the intent to reply. As a result you continue to obfuscate the issue.


What are you talking about now SZ? What paraphrase? Look again. I quoted your exact words. Are you now denying fact?


My exact words were, “You said that you had the ability to demonstrate the difference between belief and knowledge. Will you do this, please?”
If you read this as a demand, your comprehension of the written word needs to improve (if you wish to be seen as rational as you keep telling us you are).


Oh my.
Have you ever thought of trying to control your projection?

Projection.

Try to make an honest accusation please.

 

[samtonga43]

Projection.
Try to make an honest accusation please.

The facts are above for all to see, SZ.
You are full of bluster and it signifies nothing.

 

[Muffled]

I am going to wait till I am more mobile. I am hoping I can get out in December. I plan on going to either a Lutheran church or a United Methodist church, both of which I have visited.
They both welcome gays and lesbians.Although I am heterosexual
but I won't go to a church that does not welcome gays and lesbians.

I am not Christian but both churches will welcome me regardless.They are really nice people, I like them.

I believe that qualifies as an apostate church for an apostate person.