Finding the right path - Hinduism/Buddhism

[Satyamavejayanti]

"Tom Ciocco"

Namaste,

New to the forum and glad to be here. I'll try to keep this question as short as possible.

Welcome

................... I am a regular "secular" meditator.

Ah, the discomfort with Hindu/Dharmic label. What does "secular meditation", even entail?

Here is my dilemma: I feel connected and attracted to the metaphysics of Hinduism (especially Vishistavaita Vedanta and Yoga) but I find the trappings of all of the many deities, caste, etc. to be off-putting.

What is about the deities that is off-putting? and where in the Vedanta/Yoga traditions have you experienced caste ism?

So, here's my question to the forum:
Is there some "mid-point" school between Hinduism and Buddhism? I think if there is, for my thinking, it might be more likely to lie on the Hindu side rather than the Buddhist, but clearly. I'm not sure.

I am not to familiar with the Buddhist Darshan to comment on it, why does there need to be a midpoint, why not just reject caste, respect deities and practice Vedanta and Yoga, like many Hindus do?

Dhanyavad

 

[sayak83]

Thanks for all of the quick replies, but let me directly address Sw. Vandana Jyothi:

I definitely have an intellectual bent, and particularly a philosophical one, and read a lot of philosophy, both western and eastern, which is why I feel I need to get the "theory" straight before I get into the "practice". Since I come out of Catholic Christian background, one thing that has stuck with me from that tradition is the notion of charity and service: to alleviate suffering from poverty, lack of education, etc. I'm currently tutoring a 24-year-old transgender woman who still is only reading at a 3rd grade level. I love animals (though I'm not a vegetarian, though I try to stay as far away from "factory farm" meat, and limit my consumption of meat in general). I'm also an artist (assemblage sculpture) and a musician (bass, guitar, voice) that comes out of the "do it yourself"/punk/hardcore tradition, but I also love jazz, Jamaican, Brazilian, Indian music too . I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you ask if I'm "heart oriented". I think the value of laughter and humor is almost inestimable.

There is a saying about the people that come from the region where my family comes from Italy (Abruzzo and Molise) - it's said we are "forte ma gentile" ("strong but kind/civilized") and I think that his old saying pretty well applies to me. I'm also very concerned about social justice: economic opportunity, workplace self-determination, rcial harmony, etc...

I hope that this a good second pass on characterizing myself with a view toward finding the right path to pursue, and I welcome any and all further questions and advice.

T.C.

In Buddhism, you could consider the Sangha-s associated with Thick Nhat Hahn who founded the "engaged Buddhism" movement of marrying contemplative practice with humanitarian activism.
http://plumvillage.org/about/international-sangha-directory/

In Hinduism, the one organization that I can reasonable vouch for is the Ramakrishna Missions and its affiliates which combine aspects of both Advaita and Vishista-Advaita tradition and has elements of both devotion and meditation in them. It has centers all over the world, participates in humanitarian work quite a lot and their founders are important figures in Indian Renaissance and establishing Hinduism in the world stage.

http://www.belurmath.org/centres/branchcentres.htm#USA

 

[Tom Ciocco]

Thanks to everyone who has replied. With so many voices, it's hard to reply to them all point by point, but that said...

As far as "deities" are concerned, as a former Catholic, which as you all know is strictly monotheistic, the notion of multiple deities - weather they are "real" and "true" or not - just makes me uncomfortable and seems to me to be a distraction that can be factored out or bypassed if the "ultimate" is Brahman Atman...

In my understanding of it, Vishistadvaita Vedanta is attractive because of notion that we are the same as "God" but yet not the same. This, at least on the surface, to me explains why there is suffering.

Also, I'm skeptical about the idea of a "personal" God. Is there a school of Hinduism that might be characterized as "pantheistic" (there may be more than one type of pantheism embodied in multiple schools as I understand them)?

Can someone give me his/her thumbnail of the various schools of Yoga? Thus far, it still seems to me that Vishistadvaita Vedanta and Yoga are the most suited to me, but clearly I'm still not sure, so I'll continue to ask questions and pick brains...

I live in Jersey City and there is a very large Indian community here. There are surely more than these three in the city, but these are the ones that I often pass in my travels. Can anyone tell me about the philosophies/practical actions/characters of these two mandirs?

http://www.baps.org/Global-Network/North-America/JerseyCity.aspx

https://www.yelp.com/biz/shree-sidhi-dham-mandir-jersey-city

https://www.yelp.com/biz/nj-arya-samaj-mandir-jersey-city

ALSO - From what I know about Brahmo Samaj (the last link?), there are many of points of interest there too. I know that BS is a direct outgrowth of Hinduism proper, but they are not Hindus per se. Can anyone sketch out where BS sits vs. Hinduism?

So may questions...Thanks to all in advance.

 

[Aupmanyav]

In 'advaita' (non-duality), Brahman is pantheistic. Discussing Brahmo Samaj will not be proper in Hinduism DIR. And if it is in Comparative religions, then also, generally Hindus will shun it, because it is not Hinduism. They went away because of Christian influence. I consider it to be afflicted with pride (Dambha - I am correct and you are wrong).

Arya Samaj is a new age sect in Hinduism, again, considering itself to be following Vedas. Their translations of Vedas are absolute bull.
BAPS, again, is hardly Hindu even if they have spent a lot of money on their temples, because they consider their 19th Century leader to be Brahman.
I do not find Sidhi Dham temple to be very inspiring.
I think there must be other temples in Jersey city other than these three, but perhaps not near where you live. I do not find any that I will recommend to you.
Perhaps @Vinayaka or some one else can suggest something.

 

[Vinayaka]

Jainarayan can recommend some, at least one ... that he goes to. Aup is rather unfamiliar with North American geography it seems. I'm a 4 long days drive from there, as well as about 3 days from Alaska.

 

[Terese]

Thanks to everyone who has replied. With so many voices, it's hard to reply to them all point by point, but that said...

As far as "deities" are concerned, as a former Catholic, which as you all know is strictly monotheistic, the notion of multiple deities - weather they are "real" and "true" or not - just makes me uncomfortable and seems to me to be a distraction that can be factored out or bypassed if the "ultimate" is Brahman Atman...

In my understanding of it, Vishistadvaita Vedanta is attractive because of notion that we are the same as "God" but yet not the same. This, at least on the surface, to me explains why there is suffering.

Also, I'm skeptical about the idea of a "personal" God. Is there a school of Hinduism that might be characterized as "pantheistic" (there may be more than one type of pantheism embodied in multiple schools as I understand them)?

Can someone give me his/her thumbnail of the various schools of Yoga? Thus far, it still seems to me that Vishistadvaita Vedanta and Yoga are the most suited to me, but clearly I'm still not sure, so I'll continue to ask questions and pick brains...

I live in Jersey City and there is a very large Indian community here. There are surely more than these three in the city, but these are the ones that I often pass in my travels. Can anyone tell me about the philosophies/practical actions/characters of these two mandirs?

http://www.baps.org/Global-Network/North-America/JerseyCity.aspx

https://www.yelp.com/biz/shree-sidhi-dham-mandir-jersey-city

https://www.yelp.com/biz/nj-arya-samaj-mandir-jersey-city

ALSO - From what I know about Brahmo Samaj (the last link?), there are many of points of interest there too. I know that BS is a direct outgrowth of Hinduism proper, but they are not Hindus per se. Can anyone sketch out where BS sits vs. Hinduism?

So may questions...Thanks to all in advance.

Pranam Tom Ciocco ji

Vishishtadvaita Vedanta is the philosophy of Sri Vaisnavism, a sampradaya (denomination) of Vaisnavism. We have a personal God, Lord Visnu, and has taken innumerable avataras in our universe, as well as in other innumerable universes in reality. All sampradayas of Vaisnavism are pantheistic, and panentheistic; Brahman is the Ultimate Reality

Are you interested in Vedanta?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I am checking. I would have gone to:

Sri Guruvayurappan Temple
(Sri Krishnaji Mandir)
31 Wooleytown Road
Morganville, NJ 07751
Phone : Tel: (732) 972-5552
Email : [email protected]

Vekateswara temple in Bridgewater.
I do not know how far it will be from your place. Not close. Best is when you might be visiting New York.

 

[Sw. Vandana Jyothi]

I am checking. I would have gone to:

Sri Guruvayurappan Temple
(Sri Krishnaji Mandir)
31 Wooleytown Road
Morganville, NJ 07751
Phone : Tel: (732) 972-5552
Email : [email protected]

Vekateswara temple in Bridgewater.
I do not know how far it will be from your place. Not close. Best is when you might be visiting New York.

Aupji, you are so kind to take the time to do research for the devotees on this and other matters.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I have all the time on my hands, that is why, Sassymaa. I have a niece in Jersey City. I have asked her also, if she would care to reply.

 

[Sw. Vandana Jyothi]

I have all the time on my hands, that is why, Sassymaa. I have a niece in Jersey City. I have asked her also, if she would care to reply.

Uh, huh. Ain't about time and yer hands, kiddo. It's yer heart getting saluted.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Salute my gurus, Lord Buddha and Sri Adi Sankara. I do not actually exist.

 

[Sw. Vandana Jyothi]

Salute my gurus, Lord Buddha and Sri Adi Sankara. I do not actually exist.

Hey, every body (words split on purpose), Aupji has given up his materialism!! Mazeltov! Drinks are on me! Mt. Shasta's pure water, of course.

(And most sincere salutations to your gurus Lord Buddha and Sri Adi Sankara. All gurus. OM GUM Gurubhyo Namaha!)

 

[Aupmanyav]

Aupji has given up his materialism!!

What is material? I have never been able to understand that. I thought the discovery of Higgs Boson will solve the problem, but it didn't.

 

[Tom Ciocco]

Aupmanyav-

Thanks so much for the "legwork". Unfortunately, both of those temples are an hour or more drive (one way) from Jersey City. I'd like to hear what your niece has to say since she's right here in town.

In an earlier message, someone suggested looking into the Ramakrishna/Vivekananda branch of Vedanta. I've read a bit of Vivekananda, but as I continued my search high and low, I lost that thread, but I do remember getting quite a bit out of it. Does their branch of Vedanta fall under the Advaita heading? What are the essential texts by these two gurus?

Thanks so much to everyone in advance.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Does their branch of Vedanta fall under the Advaita heading?

Yes, generally under advaita. Ramana Maharshi and Nissargadauta Maharaj are two other modern notables in Hindu religious thought.

Something here for you on Sri Ramkrishna: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramakrishna#Metaphysics
Here for Vivekananda: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Vivekananda#Teachings_and_philosophy

Apart from Ramakrishna Mission, Divine Life Society (Swami Shivananda) and Chinmaya Mission (Swami Chinmayananda, Shivananda's disciple) are two other reputable Hindu religious societies.

As for exact belief, Hindus are flexible and leave it to a person's inclination.

 

[Vinayaka]

I am checking. I would have gone to:

Sri Guruvayurappan Temple
(Sri Krishnaji Mandir)
31 Wooleytown Road
Morganville, NJ 07751
Phone : Tel: (732) 972-5552
Email : [email protected]

Vekateswara temple in Bridgewater.
I do not know how far it will be from your place. Not close. Best is when you might be visiting New York.

I think somebody I know goes there quite a bit.

 

[Kirran]

I'd say the set of stuff that's been put forth here: Ramakrishna Mission, Divine Life Society, Chinmaya Mission, Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta Maharaj are a great set of things to look into. These are all basically Advaita, I guess we can label them, but this is just that, a label. Ramana Maharshi never said he was advaita, actually, he said that advaita and dvaita is just a duality. These kinds of things ultimately apply more for jnana yogis, but perhaps that is your path. The Chinmaya Mission is very much a jnana yoga affair, based primarily in philosophising.

Maybe you'd be interested in some stuff by the Saiva Siddhanta Church - google the Himalayan Academy.

 

[Cassandra]

I don't think anyone is ever 100% in sync with their faith because you either have to accept that there will be things you don't agree with or you have to combine two or more aspects of different faiths. (Nothing wrong with that, but if you do, don't label yourself as one or the other, because that wouldn't be honest or accurate)

Caste for example - As a Hindu, I find the idea abhorrent, but I acknowledge that it has been a social construct in India and a part of Hinduism, at least in some form, for a long time. This doesn't mean I accept it - on the contrary, I think it's our duty to look critically at our faith and see what is no longer relevant to today's society and try to grow beyond those things that are no longer morally justifiable.

A part of that is acknowledging the parts of our faith we feel uncomfortable with and don't like, rather than ignoring them. You can't change what you don't admit exists.

Basically my advice is to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Find a path that works for you, but know that if you choose a pre-existing label there are likly to be things you don't agree with. Doubt is essential to growth. Use what you disagree with to expand your wisdom/learn more about yourself and the world.

Personally I do not find the idea of caste anymore "abhorrent" than European medieval class society in which people were generally fairly happy. What I dislike is the constant propaganda campaign that some Christians launch against it in the media these days. As I see it the class system is more of an economical cultural then religious system that allows Hindus to be self-employed in strata as opposed to the homogeneous Western slave labor system. Do you hate the Jewish class system as well, or only the Hindu one?

In my perception It is westerners that want to reshape other peoples societies to their own cultural norms. See them at work in Iraq, Syria, Libya and the enormous happiness the restructuring brings to the people there. Societal structures grown naturally over a long time should be respected. If they no longer suffice people will organically change it from within to their needs.

To my knowledge the most stable societies of mankind were class systems. Class systems work very well if they allow enough upward movement for talented people. For instance the Chinese allowed common people through state exams to the state functions and rise into the highest positions. Many excellent governors came from that.

I think India would benefit more from a fair share of wealth. I has been calculated that if Asians did not have to support the American dollar because Americans abuse their economic-military power position, their incomes would be double. Imagine what that could do for poorer people. Would that not be a more logical way to change things to more justice? But alas, I guess Americans want to keep their privileged position. Because we have these other classes in the world that are taken as so natural and obvious they do not even need to be questioned.

I hope especially people from the richest country in the world with more than a quarter still living below the poverty line, and having record percentage of people in prison and on drugs, and ten thousands of deaths through shootings every year have different priorities than lecturing other nations on their perceived flaws.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Maybe you'd be interested in some stuff by the Saiva Siddhanta Church - google the Himalayan Academy.

Then there are three major Vaishnava schools. Sri Vaishnavas of Ramanujacharya, Madhva school of Dvaita and Achintya Bheda Abheda school of Hare-Krishnas.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Personally I do not find the idea of caste anymore "abhorrent" than European medieval class society in which people were generally fairly happy. What I dislike is the constant propaganda campaign that some Christians launch against it in the media these days.

You hit the nail on the head. Modern caste conflict in India is a product of democracy where the majority caste rules. They are not the higher caste Hindus, they are Hindus in the middle rung in the caste structure, Jats, Patels and Yadavas, mostly agriculturists, in Northern India. They are the people who are tormenting the lower castes. Prior to Indian independence, people lived together peacefully, each satisfied in their own position in the society.