First official Diwali?

[Kalidas]

I am a big fan of HAF. We even had one of their council members recently post here on RF a few months ago.

Why do I miss all the cool people?

I too am a fan of HAF. There's a lady at my work that if she doesn't keep her mouth shut I may want to call them.

 

[Kalidas]

That one was just for India, here's one for the States:

Spoiler: large picture

Where do you get these? Their pretty neat thanks for the info

 

[Poeticus]

Okay I am home now! This will be a fairly long post so bare with me lol.

First we have to break down and look at what is "left" and "right" in the USa (if were going to look at the Hindu American Foundation)

Left Wing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics: "Left wingers" by and large support equity (not equality but equity http://theequityline.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/equity.jpg) which basicly means support of those in need to life them up, are pro raising taxes, like social programs (EBT, universal healthcare, social security,etc tc etc) and increasing funding to these programs, but want to cut from other palces such as military, corporate "welfare"(subsidies). They are by and large "socially liberal" with support for ideas such as gay marriage, borders, female body rights (contraception and abortion). This group is mostly represented by Democrats but also se Socialists, Green party, and "left Libertarians")Libertarians are weird and will have their own paragraph)

Right Wing
Right-wing politics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"right wingers" believe in cutting taxes and cutting spending (not entirely true). they view laws restricting corporations as negative and want to continue to "conserve" the current social hierarchy. though they want to cut taxes and spending to social programs they want to increase spending for military and corporate subsidies. Socially they believe in keeping with tradition and avoid social change. this side is dominated by the republicans but can also see support from "right with libertarianism", and The tea party.

Libertarianism: Libertarians are weird and need their own paragraph. Liberaltarianism Libertarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia by and large support, well liberty sometimes to an anarchistic state. They support ideas such as legalization of drugs, prostitution, along with many of the social ideas that right wingers support. Libertarians want to reduce or eliminate the power the government has allowing citizens to largely have control over their actions (within reason of course). Right Wing libertarians (such as Ron Paul) view the government's "meddling" with corporations to be a detriment to capital growth and fight against it. While Left Wing Libertarians (Noam Chomsky) view the government as corporate puppets and want to see the government no longer being funded or "controlled" by the rich. Then there are what's known as Anarchist Libertarians, they pretty much go with "everyone is responsible for their own actions, no government is the best government". Libertarians: Left, Right or Neither? | Independent Political Report

From this we can see that both sides can and have had their issues with Hinduism and even HAF. From the Left you see groups like what Poeticus posted taking their liberalism to (in my opinion ) extreme sense, lambasting anyone that may not agree with everything they say. It has become increasingly popular to slam Religion (as a whole) with lefties (I get an plenty of argument explaining that just because Christians believe something doesn't mean ALL religions are like that) and thus many religious organisations are being pegged as " bad conservative groups" (despite the fact that HAF appears mostly liberal in the US). While from the right we get the "It's not Christian it's going to burn in hell" ideas. But even here the conservative churches can have some sway over their "left wing enemies" by providing false information (as Poeticuses chart shows), thus riling the left wingers into action.

The reason I call those groups "extreme" is they are not the majority of "left wingers" or liberals. Sure maybe most of the VOCAL assaults come from naive liberals but they only represent a small portion. While the "right wing" has been at this "destroy Hinduism" for THOUSANDS of years , they just recently started using their "opposition" as a weapon. There is one group I found directly attacking HAF (very often mind you) are The "CAG" Hindu American Foundation fails to counter mounting evidence of links to violent Hindu Nationalist Movement - CAG, http://hafsite.org/HAF_responds_to_allegations_by_radical_south_asians(whom HAF themself call radical). I find groups like this to be very extreme in their views. The main reason I find these groups to be extreme is "left wing" philosophy is based in the idea of being fair and equal to all. To attack an entire religions and the people belonging to it with little or no evidence in my eyes is extremism. These people take "Liberal" ideas and turn them into bigoted actions and that to me is extremism and not at all representative of the "left wing" or liberals at all.

Kalidas, either you are purposefully misinterpreting my words through a projection of sorts or you are repeatedly failing to simply recognize the simple premise that I made many posts ago: that most anti-Hindu encroachments currently come from the left.

Heck, if one were to even dissect the logic of that statement, "that most anti-Hindu encroachments currently come from the left", one would rationally conclude that such a statement has nothing to do, nothing absolutely whatsoever, with liberalism and extremism, etc. It is only an analytical statement. That's it. Period. It's simple as this: if one were to make a T-chart tallying anti-Hindu encroachments from the 1970s to the present, the left would get the most tallies. That's it. Period.

http://www.vigilonline.com/dynamic_includes/downloads/NGOs_Activists_and_Foreign_Funds.pdf
http://www.ahouseofcards.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/a-house-of-cards-09-20-14_mrg2-Copy.pdf​

Where do you get these? Their pretty neat thanks for the info

No problem, you will definitely find them helpful. All I do is simply go out of my comfort zone and do research. That's it.

 

[Kalidas]

Kalidas, either you are purposefully misinterpreting my words through a projection of sorts or you are repeatedly failing to simply recognize the simple premise that I made many posts ago: that most anti-Hindu encroachments currently come from the left.

Heck, if one were to even dissect the logic of that statement, "that most anti-Hindu encroachments currently come from the left", one would rationally conclude that such a statement has nothing to do, nothing absolutely whatsoever, with liberalism and extremism, etc. It is only an analytical statement. That's it. Period. It's simple as this: if one were to make a T-chart tallying anti-Hindu encroachments from the 1970s to the present, the left would get the most tallies. That's it. Period.

http://www.vigilonline.com/dynamic_includes/downloads/NGOs_Activists_and_Foreign_Funds.pdf
http://www.ahouseofcards.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/a-house-of-cards-09-20-14_mrg2-Copy.pdf​

No problem, you will definitely find them helpful. All I do is simply go out of my comfort zone and do research. That's it.

No I understand your words just fine. Just showing that moat people in the West attribute "leftist" with liberalism. And I don't disagree that these points come from the left I just feel these groups you mention are a minority and not representative of most of the left. But at this point were just arguing semantics, word definitions, and complicated ideological concepts

Well your last statement was a bit of a cheap shot, thanks I guess.

 

[Poeticus]

No I understand your words just fine. Just showing that moat people in the West attribute "leftist" with liberalism. And I don't disagree that these points come from the left I just feel these groups you mention are a minority and not representative of most of the left. But at this point were just arguing semantics, word definitions, and complicated ideological concepts

Well your last statement was a bit of a cheap shot, thanks I guess.

Kalidas, whether they are representative of most of the left or not ... is not the point. Whether they are a minority or not ... is not the point. Never has been.

Allow me to demonstrate the progression of discourse:

V-dada says the following:

Most of the critiquing is done by western scholars who have made a false and incredibly ridiculous assertion that HAF is somehow a front for radical Hindutva. It's like saying every mosque on America is actually sending money to ISIS. Fear-mongering politics of the right-wing.

Please notice the highlighted portion above. To that portion, I simply articulate the following:

Most of the critique HAF and various Hindu-related groups receives usually comes from the left, not the right. Any critique from the right is usually in plain English; the left, however, hides behind academically accepted forms of racism (i.e., Doniger), irrational political correctness (i.e., ever heard of Friends of South Asia?), and subversive language that sounds sweet to the lay-reader but is rather charged for those that can actually understand it.

Every time I wrote one of those "*This message was brought to you by" posts, it was a satire of those very same leftist groups, often characterized by: irrational idealism, stringently politically correct but completely arbitrary in their implications, virulently anti-nationalistic, and anti-Hindu. If those extremely aware of the whole shebang were to read those posts with keeping in mind people like Arundhati Roy, Amartya Sen, Meera Nanda, Angana Chatterji, etc.---those posts would make a whole lot of sense, thousandfold.

Please notice the highlight above. It is a simple deconstruction of the logic of the previous highlighted statement from V-dada's post.

Then, for some reason, the discourse veered into liberalism and extremism---I truly have no idea why. I never articulated anything about such. All I did was simply follow one premise. And I have posted numerous links clearly illustrating thusly.

Do you remember what you wrote? You wrote this:

Let's just hope what comes next continues to be for the betterment of Hinduism.

I, too, hope that what comes next continues to be for the betterment of Hinduism. We all do. And all the links I posted desire the same exact thing: they only illustrate tangible realities and seek to address their inconsistencies through analytical reasoning and data. And for us to assist in the betterment of Hinduism, it would be beneficial to acknowledge, if we can follow the premise that started this whole discourse, that most anti-Hindu encroachments come from the left.

 

[Kalidas]

Kalidas, whether they are representative of most of the left or not ... is not the point. Whether they are a minority or not ... is not the point. Never has been.

Allow me to demonstrate the progression of discourse:

V-dada says the following:



Please notice the highlighted portion above. To that portion, I simply articulate the following:



Please notice the highlight above. It is a simple deconstruction of the logic of the previous highlighted statement from V-dada's post.

Then, for some reason, the discourse veered into liberalism and extremism---I truly have no idea why. I never articulated anything about such. All I did was simply follow one premise. And I have posted numerous links clearly illustrating thusly.

Do you remember what you wrote? You wrote this:



I, too, hope that what comes next continues to be for the betterment of Hinduism. We all do. And all the links I posted desire the same exact thing: they only illustrate tangible realities and seek to address their inconsistencies through analytical reasoning and data. And for us to assist in the betterment of Hinduism, it would be beneficial to acknowledge, if we can follow the premise that started this whole discourse, that most anti-Hindu encroachments come from the left.

Simply put this has gone far enough. I have already said I agree with you the negativity towards HAF comes mostly from left leaning organizations. My main issue has not been your facts (of which you have plenty and have shown me the truth) but with the general wording. When you originally said i"The left" I felt as if (whether you meant to or not) you were making a sweeping generalization of all those who alian himself with the left. You obviously dint mean that and the confusion lied with me.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm far left too, Kalidas, and that means a lot more when you live in Canuckistan.

 

[Maya3]

I am also on the left.

Kalidas, what is the lady at your work saying?

Maya

 

[Kalidas]

I am also on the left.

Kalidas, what is the lady at your work saying?

Maya

Well nothing TOO serious yet. But in the past she has gotten in argument with my atheist friend about Jesus rhia and blah blah blah. Well one day she said I was an atheist and when I said no she just kept at it. I have hears her in the past proclaim that anyone who doesn't believe "in the one true god" is an atheist. Yeah that crap bugs me, considering she is in a manager position

 

[Maya3]

Well nothing TOO serious yet. But in the past she has gotten in argument with my atheist friend about Jesus rhia and blah blah blah. Well one day she said I was an atheist and when I said no she just kept at it. I have hears her in the past proclaim that anyone who doesn't believe "in the one true god" is an atheist. Yeah that crap bugs me, considering she is in a manager position

Oh that is not appropriate, especially if she is a manager.
It is hard to know what to do in situations like that.

Maya

 

[Vinayaka]

It's really common, but maybe a precedent needs to be set. Not that others haven't done it. It's harassment, based on religion, but in the grand scheme of things, not all that bad. If she got you fired, then it would be something.

 

[Kalidas]

It's really common, but maybe a precedent needs to be set. Not that others haven't done it. It's harassment, based on religion, but in the grand scheme of things, not all that bad. If she got you fired, then it would be something.

Exactly. She hasn't crossed the line yet. Besides the store manager would take her side over mine for sure (he has a thing for ladies). So chances are she would get written up and I would be transferred

 

[Aupmanyav]

That one was just for India, here's one for the States.

I am not secular, if other people indulge in rubbish. I am a Hindu. I did not like a few of HAF articles.

 

[Vinayaka]

Which ones, and why?

 

[Poeticus]

I did not like a few of HAF articles.

Did you read HAF articles by personally reading them online here and there? I ask because I haven't posted an HAF article in this thread. I'm afraid that you are confusing one of the numerous links I have provided with them. That or there have been some comprehension issues regarding my posts and your understanding of HAF.

 

[StarryNightshade]

Just for the record, since others were bringing it up, I'm Center-Left (as far as American politics goes) and I find myself being more annoyed by those on the left, rather than those on the right. A lot of it has to do with this pseudo-intellectualism that many on the left like to spew when it comes to politics, philosophy, and religion.

I'm also neutral to the HAF for the simple reason that I don't know that much about them.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm also neutral to the HAF for the simple reason that I don't know that much about them.

That's the logical opening position on any topic. Then once you actually know something, you can decide.

I've been familiar with the work of HAF for quite some time now, and in particular the California textbook controversy.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I ask because I haven't posted an HAF article in this thread.

The person from HAF posted a link when he visited us.

 

[Andal]

On the topic of the HAF as an academic by training and a Hindu by heart, I lean more towards liking them in the American context. They are the only group I know of that has a enough political clout to make positive changes for Hinduism in the US on the level of national politics.

Then again I try to stay out of the political arena except when I see something I don't like...

Aum Hari Aum!

 

[Poeticus]

Of interesting [and relevant] note:

India is estimated to have had around 2 million NGOs in 2009, just over one NGO per 600 Indians, and many times the number of primary schools and primary health centres in India.
source
"India: More NGOs, than schools and health centres". OneWorld.net. July 7, 2010. Retrieved 2011-10-07.
"First official estimate: An NGO for every 400 people in India". The Indian Express. July 7, 2010.

And ...

Issa G. Shivji is one of Africa's leading experts on law and development issues as an author and academic. His critique on NGOs is found in two essays: "Silences in NGO discourse: The role and future of NGOs in Africa" and "Reflections on NGOs in Tanzania: What we are, what we are not and what we ought to be". Shivji argues that despite the good intentions of NGO leaders and activists, he is critical of the "objective effects of actions, regardless of their intentions". Shivji argues also that the sudden rise of NGOs are part of a neoliberal paradigm rather than pure altruistic motivations. He is critical of the current manifestations of NGOs wanting to change the world without understanding it, and that the imperial relationship continues today with the rise of NGOs ...

Others argue that NGOs are often imperialist in nature, that they sometimes operate in a racialized manner in third world countries, and that they fulfill a similar function to that of the clergy during the high colonial era. The philosopher Peter Hallward argues that they are an aristocratic form of politics. He also points to the fact that NGOs like Action Aid and Christian Aid "effectively condoned the [2004 US backed] coup" against an elected government in Haiti and argues that they are the "humanitarian face of imperialism."
source

A collection, therefore, of the links I have posted so far:

The Cartel's Politics | Rajiv Malhotra | Infinity Foundation
America Must Re-discover India | Rajiv Malhotra | Infinity Foundation
Chapter III. Connections between Leftist/Communist Organizations
The Liberal Neo-Colonial Mindset | Hindu Human Rights Online News Magazine
The Dark Hour of Secularism: Hindu Fundamentalism and Colonial Liberalism in India | Jakob De Roover - Academia.edu​

NGOs (International):

NGOs, Activists, and Foreign Funds: Anti-Nation Industry​

The States:

A House of Cards: Coalition Against Genocide and the Politics of Deception​

For the betterment of Dharma, please share these links with other conscious Hindus.