First service

[Videodrome]

Well I come from a Catholic background but somethings like Original Sin seemed peculiar. Or in general an approach that we're all bad and we need to be saved or fixed. I mean I can accept the notion of self improvement and having a discussion about it, but in a ritualistic way of emphasizing that we're sinners seems kind of bleak.

"that I have sinned exceedingly,
in thought, word and deed:
through my fault,
through my fault,
through my most grievous fault." Paraphrased.

So I've drifted in different directions even included books on Buddhism. I also became curious about simply Univeraslim (that all are saved or at least not condemned). Finally this Sunday I attended a Universalist Unitarian church.

I felt very comfortable with it even if somethings were quite different. Such as invoking a name like Gaia. However, I get the feeling many of these things are interchangeable.

After the service there is a short social gathering under the church. One guy there even self identified as Atheist. It seemed be a BYOB(bring your own beliefs) deal. No pressure to follow a doctrine and not even much ritual.

Unfortunately they're about an hour's drive away but I could see popping in there again sometimes.

The tricky part is thinking of how to explain it when my Catholic mom keeps bugging me about this.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Glad you enjoyed it!

 

[seeker57]

Having been brought up Catholic, I can fully understand you issues and concerns with its dogma.

As a UU, I had to learn a completely different style of belief - not one that was imposed, but one which I searched out myself, and continue to search out.

Perhaps, in a nutshell, that is the greatest difference between UU and Catholic - Catholics are focused on the hereafter, using guilt to keep the flock in line, while UUs seem to treasure the journey to whatever awaits more so than the destination.

But, that is just my take.

Glad you enjoyed the service.

Seeker

 

[Videodrome]

Thanks. Also as a former Catholic do you find yourself coming up with creative diplomatic ways to explain the UU church to a Catholic parent?

So far I've skipped around it a bit. I was asked directly was this a Christian religion and since it had roots in it and incorporated basically all beliefs I just said simply Yes. I didn't try the long explanation because I think it would only add to confusion.


I might have a few questions for the Atheist guy to. I've been reading a book by Lawrence Krauss called A Universe From Nothing. It's actually fascinating.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I'm always amazed by the numbers of recovering Catholics I meet at the UU Church. For some reason I expected to see more Baptists. Welcome to the church and the forum. I also struggle with my Baptists family's views on UU. They don't trust it at all and often express concern for the well being of my soul.

 

[Videodrome]

Having been brought up Catholic, I can fully understand you issues and concerns with its dogma.

As a UU, I had to learn a completely different style of belief - not one that was imposed, but one which I searched out myself, and continue to search out.

Perhaps, in a nutshell, that is the greatest difference between UU and Catholic - Catholics are focused on the hereafter, using guilt to keep the flock in line, while UUs seem to treasure the journey to whatever awaits more so than the destination.

But, that is just my take.

Glad you enjoyed the service.

Seeker

Yeah that's an interesting take. It's fine to give consideration and thought to the mystery of what happens when we die, but I don't want to worry so much about it I don't pay attention to my current life.

 

[Antiochian]

My parents aren't Catholic. Evangelical Protestantism is my birthright, so to speak. Family members tell me I'm misguided. My mom told me I'll never see my grandmother again (meaning I'm going to that place where they shovel coal). I'm saddened to know that my decision to no longer be Christian causes my family suffering. Because the "God" they adore is apparently too small-minded to make a place at the table for people who believe differently. Still, it's your life. If you're an adult you have the right to practice the religion of your choice. If others don't like it, so be it. It's not their journey. Stand your ground when loved ones use the guilt-trip--gently but firmly.

I live about an hour from my UU church as well. I don't get there often, but I go when I can. Blessings.

 

[applewuud]

I think it calms everybody down if you point out that Unitarian-Universalism has deep roots in our country, and was the liberal wing of the Pilgrims initially. Also that several U.S. presidents were Unitarian. Since it's not a creedal religion, you're not joining a group that asks you to refute your parents' creeds. It's a place for spiritual exploration and support, and isn't trying to push you one way or another.

I've been reading a great book by Robert Price, The Reason-Driven Life, a "Christian Atheist's" response to The Purpose-Driven Life. A chapter on "Healing Religious Divisions" has some good advice:

First off, with your fundamentalist relatives, acquintances, friends, whatever, you need to resign yourself to the fact that their beliefs have become absolutely central to them. You and I may bemoan that centrality. We may think it has, in a sense, lobotomized them, giving them a false sense of direction and assurance, and at much too great a price. But let's keep this opinion to ourselves, shall we? We'll just have to get over it.

Another important fact to keep in mind is that their opinions about God, and the like, are not intellectual in origin, through they are intellectual in character. The fundamentalist believes what he believes because of a prior decision to join a community that accepts him, not because he has simply changed his mind on some theoretical issues regarding the Bible....

....They are quite intelligent, but they employ that intelligence in rationalization, defending at any cost a set of beliefs they hold for emotional reasons. You will never get anywhere with intellectual arguments. But if you understand the emotional origin of their faith, you are granted a wide window into understanding their faith. If you feel you should try to prompt them to rethink their commitment, then the way to do it might be to show them that the (imagined or real) benefits of their faith are readily available elsewhere and without such a price tag.

In saying "if you want to prompt a reevaluation," I imply that you might not want to disabuse a born-again Christian of his or her faith. Right, because it might be that it is the only thing keeping the person going."

I can't recommend this book highly enough for anyone who's struggled with fundamentalist faith issues and is now on the outside.

He doesn't like Unitarianism, though...thinks our theology is too thin, doesn't see the point of organizing and maintaining buildings, and I bet that his Nietzschean tendencies were challenged when he was considering transferring his credentials from a liberal Baptist church to a UU congregation.

 

[applewuud]

...Family members tell me I'm misguided. My mom told me I'll never see my grandmother again (meaning I'm going to that place where they shovel coal). I'm saddened to know that my decision to no longer be Christian causes my family suffering. Because the "God" they adore is apparently too small-minded to make a place at the table for people who believe differently. ...

Antiochian, I just have to slip in one more quote from The Reason-Driven Life I think states your case in more vigorous language:

Once you realize that fundamentalism, despite all its talk of love, love, love, enshrines as its ultimate paragon of morality an entity whose "goodness" is compatible with torturing billions of people for eternity, you begin to understand those bigots holding their picket signs that say "GOD HATES ****". They aren't exactly hypocrites. Their inconsistency, though gross, occurs on a deeper level than that. They are holding together two diametrically opposed convictions about God: he is loving and he is the Lord of Damnation. It is an unstable, schizophrenic mix. No wonder it can tip now to one side, now to the other. Once again we see the fundamentalist God of Reverend Warren and his pals as the prototype of the abusive father, he who professes his love and demonstrates it with his fists.

--Robert M. Price, The Reason-Driven Life, p. 166.

 

[seeker57]

Wow, you have convinced me I should read that book.

Thanks for the heads up.

Seeker

 

[Videodrome]

Thanks for the replies I check in here every so often. I have not been back for another service because it's about an hour away to the church, have the high gas prices, and I'm on a tight college student budget.

I still find it fascinating and I would like to go back for another service.

As for the idea of a Reason driven life that is interesting to think about. I really did come to a point in my teenage years where the dual concepts of God as either benevolent and merciful or behaving like a cruel medieval king where just to much. I quit going as soon as I moved out.

I still don't know what I really think in a theological sense, which is why the UU is appealing. I feel like it's a community where everyone can contemplate these big concepts in a free thoughtful way.

I'm open to different ideas to like Reincarnation and I wonder if we should really be so wrapped in worshiping a distant deity. Also sometimes religion can almost seem to equate our humanity with being inherently "Sinful". As in Original Sin. Now that really bothers me and I want to go the opposite way. We should put the spotlight of Reason on ourselves and the Human Condition. Some of our behavior is flawed yes but we can try to understand ourselves and work through things. A lot of what I see in Buddhism seems aimed at this.

Also I think there was even an Atheist there and I would enjoy frank scientific discussion with people like him. I love science and looking at Hubble deep space photos of galaxies and nebulae fills me with a sense of awe at creation.

 

[HerDotness]

Do you know about CLF, the UU Church of the Larger Fellowship? It's online now and is the largest UU congregation in the world.

It was originally intended for people like I was when I joined it back before Al Gore invented the Internet (JOKE alert!), when it was a church-by-mail. I lived over 200 miles from the nearest UU church so there was obviously no way I could go to church at all regularly. CLF was great for a lifeline to UUism.

The website is in transition now, I saw a few weeks ago, moving to a site with more bells & whistles so I'm not sure how functional it all is, but try www.clf.uua.org

There's a "Join CLF" on the top toolbar that links you to the area that tells you more about how CLF is organized. Basically, it's like a regular UU church as far as your stating that you wish to join and signing a card saying that which also asks for you to pledge the amount of money you think you can afford to give to the church in a year as well as how often you expect to send a certain amount. It's not absolute, but they do depend on how much people say they'll give to set up budgets and have some idea how much they can pay the minister, so it is important not to pledge and then give nothing at all.

There's a 3-month, no obligation trial membership which is a nice entry point into CLF and UUism. It gives you some privileges but not all that a full member has.

You do get a hardcopy or two of Quest, the monthly CLF newsletter and one issue of UU World, the church magazine. Of course, you can also read Quest online or download a podcast of each issue, too. There are links on the site to do both.

The trial membership is free. You don't need to give any money unless you want to. And no one will hassle you to join. You'll just get an email near the end of the three months asking if you wish to become a member and explaining how.

It's great...even though I'd been in CLF, I tried it.

The CLF library is WONDERFUL! I even knew UU's who belonged to a church and to CLF for access to its library mostly. Of course, that meant they were pledging and contributing to two different UU churches. Might be more than many could afford, I should think!

 

[HerDotness]

I think it calms everybody down if you point out that Unitarian-Universalism has deep roots in our country, and was the liberal wing of the Pilgrims initially.

Weeelll, maybe. That sure wouldn't have chilled my Roman Catholic parents a bit! Nor my dad's relatives, the RC side of the family. An uncle decided to convert to the Methodist church because my aunt had never been that satisfied as a Catholic and wanted to return to her childhood faith. They raised their two sons as Methodists even though both had been baptized Catholic. Dad's family didn't speak to them at all for about 20 years, until well after Grandma and Grandpa were dead.

Mom's side were Protestant, so they wouldn't have cared what church I went to all that much...but I didn't go out of my way to explain UUism to them either. We just didn't talk about it after it became known I wasn't an active Catholic anymore.

 

[Gaura Priya]

Such as invoking a name like Gaia.

Each Unitarian church, fellowship or congregation is different, might I add. Both my dating companion and I super like one church that has been more humanistically inclined, of the non-theistic variety. However, I decided that I really wanted to check out another Unitarian church group in my own locality.

So off we both went... aside from the main sermon/homily, it was a little cringing for me and my companion. A smaller community, with a different set of rituals, singing:

"Gaia, Gaia,
Gaia Gaia Gaia..."

:run:

No offense to any other Unitarians, but we decided that this Unitarian community was not for us. They were much friendlier, but it starkly contrasted with two other Unitarian churches in our cities nearby.