Fixing the scripture ...

[Pegg]

An example.

Let's start with some examples of Psalm 34:15-17.

King James Version

• The eyes of the LORD [are] upon the righteous, and his ears [are open] unto their cry.
• The face of the LORD [is] against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.
• [The righteous] cry, and the LORD heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles.

New Jerusalem Bible

• The eyes of Yahweh are on the upright, his ear turned to their cry.
• But Yahweh's face is set against those who do evil, to cut off the memory of them from the earth.
• They cry in anguish and Yahweh hears, and rescues them from all their troubles

Segal

• The eyes of the LORD are toward the righteous, His ears toward their outcry.
• The face of the LORD is against evildoers, to cut off their memory from the earth.
• They cry out, and the LORD hears, and from all their troubles He saves them.

The bracketed emendation found in the KJV is not uncommon, but the other two examples are more accurate. Clearly the KJV is trying to make sense of something that otherwise does not - at least not on the surface. What's going on here?

its a case where the translators are making it easier for the reader to understand. What you find in brackets sets the context or the direction.... in the above example, who are the 'they' who cry? The translator is indicating that the 'they' are the same righteous ones being spoken of in the first verse.

it doesnt change the meaning of the text, so it doesnt corrupt the text...it simply makes it more understandable to the reader. I have more of an issue with the fact that the translators of many bibles have removed the authors name in favor of 'LORD' ...that is what corrupts the text!

 

[Shermana]

its a case where the translators are making it easier for the reader to understand. What you find in brackets sets the context or the direction.... in the above example, who are the 'they' who cry? The translator is indicating that the 'they' are the same righteous ones being spoken of in the first verse.

it doesnt change the meaning of the text, so it doesnt corrupt the text...it simply makes it more understandable to the reader. I have more of an issue with the fact that the translators of many bibles have removed the authors name in favor of 'LORD' ...that is what corrupts the text!

And then we have situations where the translators deliberately change the Greek from present tense to past tense and add brackets (because it would make no sense in the distorted form they are presenting) such as the NIV and other's translation of Mark 7:14, which the KJV and Douay Rheims get correct. All for the sake of their antinominian confirmation biases.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

its a case where the translators are making it easier for the reader to understand. What you find in brackets sets the context or the direction.... in the above example, who are the 'they' who cry? The translator is indicating that the 'they' are the same righteous ones being spoken of in the first verse.

That is not what the text says but, rather, an interpretation literally imposed on the uncomfortable text.

 

[paarsurrey]

That is not what the text says but, rather, an interpretation literally imposed on the uncomfortable text.

This is very unfair to do.

 

[Pegg]

That is not what the text says but, rather, an interpretation literally imposed on the uncomfortable text.

im not sure what part you are referring to as 'uncomfortable'

Can the 3rd verse apply to anyone but the 'righteous' ones who are spoken of in the first verse?

It certainly cannot be referring to the wicked ones... God does not deliver them when they cry for help.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It certainly cannot be referring to the wicked ones... God does not deliver them when they cry for help.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

perhaps lines 1 and 3 were 'supposed' to compliment each other

line 2 is an obvious contrast...

but see i don't know how these lines were originally laid out.

I missed this. And I must admit to being more than a little impressed. So what if the second and third verse was switched (i.e., fixed) by some early scribe?

This is almost certainly what occurred, and translators have been saddled with the consequences ever since ...

 

[waitasec]

I missed this. And I must admit to being more than a little impressed. So what if the second and third verse was switched (i.e., fixed) by some early scribe?

This is almost certainly what occurred, and translators have been saddled with the consequences ever since ...

it's as if the translators couldn't see the forrest for the trees.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

it's as if the translators couldn't see the forrest for the trees.

I presume that some early scribe did what seemed appropriate given the acrostic character of the psalm. It was an error, but an extremely reasonable one.

 

[Deut 13:1]

This is one of the acrostic psalms. It's much more beautiful in Hebrew and you lose some of the meaning in English. Just to add another translation the Metsudah Tehillim translates them as

• The eyes of HaShem are toward the righteous, and HaShem's ears [are open] to their cry.
• The face of HaShem is set against evildoers to excise from earth, their memory.
• They cry out and HaShem hears and from all their troubles, HaShem saves them.

A different meaning then the kjv.

 

[Awoon]

I don't there is any other method to fix the ancient scriptures.

Is there one?

Why fix any "ancient" scriptures or books. The sun, the rain, the winds, the tides, etc, are still doing what they do. Nature does it's business whether there are ancient, modern or no scriptures.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Still, the second verse is intrusive. It should come last.

 

[paarsurrey]

Why fix any "ancient" scriptures or books. The sun, the rain, the winds, the tides, etc, are still doing what they do. Nature does it's business whether there are ancient, modern or no scriptures.

Word revealed is natural in a sense; like nature it is not man-made in its pristine form, in my opinion.

 

[paarsurrey]

Why fix any "ancient" scriptures or books. The sun, the rain, the winds, the tides, etc, are still doing what they do. Nature does it's business whether there are ancient, modern or no scriptures.

Like on renovates a building which is not in good condition and needs whitewashing, me think.

 

[Father Heathen]

Like on renovates a building which is not in good condition and needs whitewashing, me think.

And sometimes buildings need to be condemned and demolished so that something better can be built in their place.

 

[paarsurrey]

And sometimes buildings need to be condemned and demolished so that something better can be built in their place.

For instance; please

 

[Father Heathen]

For instance; please

For instance; irrational, unsubstantiated, arbitrary, oppressive, unjust superstitions that have no place in the modern world.

 

[waitasec]

:clap

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I was brought up on the KVC and our church also uses the NRSV which is largely an update.

I understand the KJV to mean the same as the NRSV and have no difficulty with the language in either.
I am used to the fact that the KJV does not include word redundanciess. So that the "Righteous" in the third line is implied.

However it should be noted Christian Beliefs have moved on...
It is certainly believed by most Christian that the crys of the " unrighteous Sinner" are heard by God, And that the Holy Spirit Guides us to repentance, Sinner and "sinless" ?? alike.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I was brought up on the KVC and our church also uses the NRSV which is largely an update.

I understand the KJV to mean the same as the NRSV and have no difficulty with the language in either.
I am used to the fact that the KJV does not include word redundanciess. So that the "Righteous" in the third line is implied.

However it should be noted Christian Beliefs have moved on...
It is certainly believed by most Christian that the crys of the " unrighteous Sinner" are heard by God, And that the Holy Spirit Guides us to repentance, Sinner and "sinless" ?? alike.

So you have no issue with the following ...

• But Yahweh's face is set against those who do evil, to cut off the memory of them from the earth.
• They cry in anguish and Yahweh hears, and rescues them from all their troubles