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Fixing the scripture ...

Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
An example.

Let's start with some examples of Psalm 34:15-17.
King James Version
  • The eyes of the LORD [are] upon the righteous, and his ears [are open] unto their cry.
  • The face of the LORD [is] against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.
  • [The righteous] cry, and the LORD heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles.
New Jerusalem Bible
  • The eyes of Yahweh are on the upright, his ear turned to their cry.
  • But Yahweh's face is set against those who do evil, to cut off the memory of them from the earth.
  • They cry in anguish and Yahweh hears, and rescues them from all their troubles
Segal
  • The eyes of the LORD are toward the righteous, His ears toward their outcry.
  • The face of the LORD is against evildoers, to cut off their memory from the earth.
  • They cry out, and the LORD hears, and from all their troubles He saves them.
The bracketed emendation found in the KJV is not uncommon, but the other two examples are more accurate. Clearly the KJV is trying to make sense of something that otherwise does not - at least not on the surface. What's going on here?
 
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paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I think adding something or subtracting something from the original is corruption, unless one gives the original text ; the Word revealed from the one true attributive creator God; side by side of the translation, in my opinion.
 
esmith

esmith

Veteran Member
From the Tanakh The Holy Scriptures
Psalms 34:16-19
16: The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous, His ears attentive to their cry.
17: The face of the LORD is set against evildoers, to erase their names from the earth.
18: They cry out, and the LORD hears, and saves them from all their troubles.
19: The LORD is close to the brokenhearted; those crushed in spirit He delivers.

From the New Oxford Annotated Bible (New Revised Standard Version 4th Edition
Psalms 34:15-18
15: The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their cry
16: The face of the LORD is against evildoers, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.
17: When the righteous cry for help, the LORD hears, and rescues them from all their troubles.
18: The LORD is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit.

There appears to be little or no difference in the writings of these two references or in the Michael Segal Bible other than the numbering sequence in the Tanakh (also seen in the JPS Jewish Study Bible)
 
Quagmire

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
esmith said:
From the Tanakh The Holy Scriptures
Psalms 34:16-19
16: The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous, His ears attentive to their cry.
17: The face of the LORD is set against evildoers, to erase their names from the earth.
18: They cry out, and the LORD hears, and saves them from all their troubles.
19: The LORD is close to the brokenhearted; those crushed in spirit He delivers.

From the New Oxford Annotated Bible (New Revised Standard Version 4th Edition
Psalms 34:15-18
15: The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous, and his ears are open to their cry
16: The face of the LORD is against evildoers, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.
17: When the righteous cry for help, the LORD hears, and rescues them from all their troubles.
18: The LORD is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit.

There appears to be little or no difference in the writings of these two references or in the Michael Segal Bible other than the numbering sequence in the Tanakh (also seen in the JPS Jewish Study Bible)
Click to expand...

The "When the righteous cry for help" changes the whole meaning of the last two lines.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
perhaps lines 1 and 3 were 'supposed' to compliment each other

line 2 is an obvious contrast...

but see i don't know how these lines were originally laid out.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
I think adding something or subtracting something from the original is corruption, unless one gives the original text ; the Word revealed from the one true attributive creator God; side by side of the translation, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

The other way of fixing the OT Bible and NT Bible scriptures without changing/corrupting text of the scriptures , in my opinion, is to understand their meaning from the latest Word revealed from the one true attributive creator God; I mean from Quran.
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
paarsurrey said:
The other way of fixing the OT Bible and NT Bible scriptures without changing/corrupting text of the scriptures , in my opinion, is to understand their meaning from the latest Word revealed from the one true attributive creator God; I mean from Quran.
Click to expand...
Use the Koran to "correct" the Bible?

:biglaugh:

No agenda there...:facepalm:
 
michel

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Jayhawker Soule said:
An example.

Let's start with some examples of Psalm 34:15-17.

King James Version
  • The eyes of the LORD [are] upon the righteous, and his ears [are open] unto their cry.
  • The face of the LORD [is] against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.
  • [The righteous] cry, and the LORD heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles.
New Jerusalem Bible
  • The eyes of Yahweh are on the upright, his ear turned to their cry.
  • But Yahweh's face is set against those who do evil, to cut off the memory of them from the earth.
  • They cry in anguish and Yahweh hears, and rescues them from all their troubles
Segal
  • The eyes of the LORD are toward the righteous, His ears toward their outcry.
  • The face of the LORD is against evildoers, to cut off their memory from the earth.
  • They cry out, and the LORD hears, and from all their troubles He saves them.
The bracketed emendation found in the KJV is not uncommon, but the other two examples are more accurate. Clearly the KJV is trying to make sense of something that otherwise does not - at least not on the surface. What's going on here?
Click to expand...

I hate to say it, but I believe that "what is going bon here" is the usual dissemination (which makes life very difficult for mentally challenged people like me!:p
 
esmith

esmith

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
I don't there is any other method to fix the ancient scriptures.

Is there one?
Click to expand...

Depends, if what is written was based on an invalid translation then it can be fixed. I will give you one example:

Isaiah 7:13
In most Christian bibles a passage reads: Therefore the LORD himself will give you a sign. The virgin (my emphases) will be with child.

In the Tanakh and The New Oxford Annotated Bible the word "virgin" is translated correctly to "young woman".
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
paarsurrey said:
I don't there is any other method to fix the ancient scriptures.

Is there one?
Click to expand...
So the best you can come up with to change the Bible to match up with your favourite holy book?

What would you say if they were to use the Old Testament to "correct" the New Testament?
The Book of Mormon to "correct" the Koran?
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
esmith said:
Depends, if what is written was based on an invalid translation then it can be fixed. I will give you one example:

Isaiah 7:13
In most Christian bibles a passage reads: Therefore the LORD himself will give you a sign. The virgin (my emphases) will be with child.

In the Tanakh and The New Oxford Annotated Bible the word "virgin" is translated correctly to "young woman".
Click to expand...

That is fixation of the translation of a scripture; not the scripture itself.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Mestemia said:
So the best you can come up with to change the Bible to match up with your favourite holy book?

What would you say if they were to use the Old Testament to "correct" the New Testament?
The Book of Mormon to "correct" the Koran?
Click to expand...

I never said to change the Bible; there is no need to. If there are contradiction in Bible; the one which is supported by Quran should be taken as correct for understanding; I don't favour changing the text of the Bible.

This is what I get from Quran:

[5:48] And let the People of the Gospel judge according to what Allah has revealed therein, and whoso judges not by what Allah has revealed, these it is who are the rebellious.
[5:49] And We have revealed unto thee the Book comprising the truth and fulfilling that which was revealed before it in the Book, and as a guardian over it. Judge, therefore, between them by what Allah has revealed, and follow not their evil inclinations, turning away from the truth which has come to thee. For each of you We prescribed a clear spiritual Law and a manifest way in secular matters. And if Allah had enforced His will, He would have made you all one people, but He wishes to try you by that which He has given you. Vie, then, with one another in good works. To Allah shall you all return; then will He inform you of that wherein you differed.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

This is very reasonable in my opinion.
 
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