Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Um....so what? It still says that he will return within their lifetimes. You it still contradicts you.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Flat Earth in the Holy Bible!
- Thread starter TashaN
- Start date
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
There's so much wrong there, it's hard to know where to start. But, perhaps we can start with:
* Sheol isn't dusty or watery, half was paradise, the other half, dark and fiery... one reason we should both trust Jesus for salvation.
* It could be reached while still alive. Read the story of Korah's rebellion.
Infographics can be wonderful, but only if they are based on the text/the facts as presented by the text.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Repeating an untruth doesn't make it true.
1. Some NT passages speak of some of the disciples seeing the Kingdom of God JUST as you quoted. This occurred IMMEDIATELY following this quotation in ALL three synoptic gospels.
2. ZERO NT passages speak of an imminent return. Indeed, ALL passages touching on the Return of Christ give details as to what must happen first, including statements like "Finally this will happen" or "After a long time" or "I will die soon but as I told you, Jesus will not return before..." or even "This current Temple will be destroyed by Rome, and then the Jews will be scattered and then return, and then set up a new Temple and then the Antichrist will come and then look for my Return..." etc.
So, let's just go for it, shall we? You are not a mere skeptic, you are a skeptic posting to religious forums to mock the scriptures. Which in my book, called The Bible, makes you an immoral person with personal, dark reasons for mocking God. Spare us all the cute little contradictions and speak openly. Do you love or hate God would be a good place to start. And please, do us the courtesy of not saying, "How can I hate a being who is nonexistent?" because your postings here at RELIGIOUS forums.com, a place I came to so I could learn from other seekers of God, belies the truth.
Sorry to be so personal but the shoe fits here and I'm a little tired by hearing you repeat myths that I've debunked as false statements regarding the text. If I've offended you in any way please know I pray it is to your betterment.
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Mate, you are not even referring to the same passage as I quoted. Sheesh. I quoted Jesus saying that he would return whilst some in the crowd were still alive - you jump all over the bible trying to invent some preposterous denial.
You're being ridiculous.
I don't hate God at all, I don't believe he exists, and spare me your personal judgements - I am familiar with your delight in dishonesty from other threads.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
It wasn't some in the crowd, it was His disciples. There are three synoptic passages describing the Kingdom coming. Please tell us all the verse and chapter where Jesus says "I'll come back while some of you still live..." I can't wait to see this one.
PS. If you have CONCLUDED that God doesn't exist, then stop wasting your time at RELIGIOUSforums.com -- or else, if you are here to mock others, you are cruel and vain. Stop it.
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
I did not mock you, no need to bear false witness. And you do not get to decide who participates here.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Hmmm... you are concerned about bearing false witness in the name of the Lord your God? I think you ARE mocking me. Your nature is showing.
No, I don't get to decide who participates here. But am I judging you rightly or wrongly? You tell me.
Skwim
Veteran Member
My, my, what presumptuous arrogance, or are you just a control freak?
No need to answer,
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
I am not mocking you, I am stating outright that you are bearing false witness. You mock only your own faith.
The bible teaches us that it is not for you to judge. You should read it.
Mitch M
Member
GOOD to see everyone just about has it all figured out.
Here is a couple more that You may have missed.. ?
Job 22:14 Thick clouds H5645 are a covering H5643 to him, that he seeth H7200 not; H3808 and he walketh H1980 in the circuit / CIRCLE H2329 of heaven. H8064
Pro 8:27 When he prepared H3559 the heavens ,H8064 I H589 was there: H8033 when he set H2710 a compass / CIRCLE H2329 upon H5921 the face H6440 of the depth :H8415
and i seen that - You Got this one.... Isa 40:22 It is he that sitteth H3427 uponH 5921 the CIRCLE H2329 of the earth ,H776 and the inhabitants H3427 thereof are as grasshoppers
* See here - in Job 22:14 - The Translators used the word circuit , instead of CIRCLE H2329
* And in in Pro 8:27 - The Translators used the word compass, instead of CIRCLE H2329
Seems the translators - didn't want to use the Hebrew word - circle. This type of changing / altering of the translation has completely changed alot of the bible translation. the Romantic Catholic Douay Rheims English translators, really went off the deep end too.
They completely deleted and removed the word Bow Down, completely from the entire Bible, when ever relating to Images or Idols.
bow down.. Hebrew 7812... - shaw-khaw' ~ To depress, prostrate / crouch, fall (flat), do (make) obeisance, do reverence, to stoop.
But the Catholic Douay Rheims English translators decided to use this Bow Down Word correctly, Only - when it is not in conjunction or relating to Images. Such deceptions of the church are hard to miss, unless you really study the Hebrew and Greek.
the KJV and Catholic Translators BOTH - Have really Changed, Added, Removed and Re WORDED Much of the original. Basically to Suit the MINDSET of the people of the Middle Ages. Such a shame.
From an artistic and historical perspective. A Crime.
I could fill 3 or 4 Pages of more Examples. that are much more Intentional than these.
Have a good day.
Ooh.\ Sorry RE EDIT. missed one !
Psa 19:6 His going forth H4161 is from the end H4480 H7097 of the heaven, H8064 and his circuit CIRCLE H2329 unto H5921 the ends H7098 of it: and there is nothing H369 hid H5641 from the heatH4480 H2535 thereof.
You all, are pretty much - right on. thanks.
Here is a couple more that You may have missed.. ?
Job 22:14 Thick clouds H5645 are a covering H5643 to him, that he seeth H7200 not; H3808 and he walketh H1980 in the circuit / CIRCLE H2329 of heaven. H8064
Pro 8:27 When he prepared H3559 the heavens ,H8064 I H589 was there: H8033 when he set H2710 a compass / CIRCLE H2329 upon H5921 the face H6440 of the depth :H8415
and i seen that - You Got this one.... Isa 40:22 It is he that sitteth H3427 uponH 5921 the CIRCLE H2329 of the earth ,H776 and the inhabitants H3427 thereof are as grasshoppers
* See here - in Job 22:14 - The Translators used the word circuit , instead of CIRCLE H2329
* And in in Pro 8:27 - The Translators used the word compass, instead of CIRCLE H2329
Seems the translators - didn't want to use the Hebrew word - circle. This type of changing / altering of the translation has completely changed alot of the bible translation. the Romantic Catholic Douay Rheims English translators, really went off the deep end too.
They completely deleted and removed the word Bow Down, completely from the entire Bible, when ever relating to Images or Idols.
bow down.. Hebrew 7812... - shaw-khaw' ~ To depress, prostrate / crouch, fall (flat), do (make) obeisance, do reverence, to stoop.
But the Catholic Douay Rheims English translators decided to use this Bow Down Word correctly, Only - when it is not in conjunction or relating to Images. Such deceptions of the church are hard to miss, unless you really study the Hebrew and Greek.
the KJV and Catholic Translators BOTH - Have really Changed, Added, Removed and Re WORDED Much of the original. Basically to Suit the MINDSET of the people of the Middle Ages. Such a shame.
From an artistic and historical perspective. A Crime.
I could fill 3 or 4 Pages of more Examples. that are much more Intentional than these.
Have a good day.
Ooh.\ Sorry RE EDIT. missed one !
Psa 19:6 His going forth H4161 is from the end H4480 H7097 of the heaven, H8064 and his circuit CIRCLE H2329 unto H5921 the ends H7098 of it: and there is nothing H369 hid H5641 from the heatH4480 H2535 thereof.
You all, are pretty much - right on. thanks.
Last edited:
Kolibri
Well-Known Member
Matthew 16:28 had nothing to do with the discussion in Matthew chapters 24 and 25. Matthew 16:28 was fulfilled in Matthew 17:1-9. The transfiguration was "a vision" portraying Jesus in his Kingdom glory alongside those that would rule with him as symbolized by "Moses" and "Elijah". The apostles Peter, James and John were the ones that did "not taste death at all until [they] first [saw] the Son of man coming in his kingdom" simply because they lived to see that "vision." (Mt 17:9)
Mitch M
Member
On June 22, 1633, the Roman Catholic Church handed down the following order:
“We pronounce, judge, and declare, that you, the said Galileo… have rendered yourself vehemently suspected by this Holy Office of heresy,
that is, of having believed and held the doctrine (which is false and contrary to the Holy and Divine Scriptures) that the sun is the center of the world, and that it does not move from east to west, and that the earth does move, and is not the center of the world.”
Therefore.
Along with the order came the following penalty: “We order that by a public edict the book of Dialogues of Galileo Galilei be prohibited, and We condemn thee to the prison of this Holy Office during Our will and pleasure; and as a salutary penance We enjoin on thee that for the space of three years thou shalt recite once a week the Seven Penitential Psalms.”
Galileo agreed not to teach the heresy anymore and spent the rest of his life under house arrest. It took more than 300 years for the Church to admit that Galileo was right and to clear his name of heresy.
I believe it was Magellan who said, "The church says the earth is flat; but I have seen its shadow on the moon, and I have more confidence even in a shadow, than in the church." On the prow of his ship were disobedience, defiance, scorn, and success.
Remember it took 400 years after the death of Christ, for the Roman Catholic Church to translate the bible INTO Hebrew and Greek.
Translators of Yesterday and Today. Are more interested in manipulating the bible translation, to fit the view, opinion and ideology of themselves and others around them.
“We pronounce, judge, and declare, that you, the said Galileo… have rendered yourself vehemently suspected by this Holy Office of heresy,
that is, of having believed and held the doctrine (which is false and contrary to the Holy and Divine Scriptures) that the sun is the center of the world, and that it does not move from east to west, and that the earth does move, and is not the center of the world.”
Therefore.
Along with the order came the following penalty: “We order that by a public edict the book of Dialogues of Galileo Galilei be prohibited, and We condemn thee to the prison of this Holy Office during Our will and pleasure; and as a salutary penance We enjoin on thee that for the space of three years thou shalt recite once a week the Seven Penitential Psalms.”
Galileo agreed not to teach the heresy anymore and spent the rest of his life under house arrest. It took more than 300 years for the Church to admit that Galileo was right and to clear his name of heresy.
I believe it was Magellan who said, "The church says the earth is flat; but I have seen its shadow on the moon, and I have more confidence even in a shadow, than in the church." On the prow of his ship were disobedience, defiance, scorn, and success.
Remember it took 400 years after the death of Christ, for the Roman Catholic Church to translate the bible INTO Hebrew and Greek.
Translators of Yesterday and Today. Are more interested in manipulating the bible translation, to fit the view, opinion and ideology of themselves and others around them.
In the Old Testament, Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in space, the obvious comparison being with the spherical sun and moon. [DD]
A literal translation of Job 26:10 is “He described a circle upon the face of the waters, until the day and night come to an end.” A spherical earth is also described in Isaiah 40:21-22—“the circle of the earth.”
Note, the Biblical Hebrew word for “circle” (חוג—chuwg) can also mean “round” or “sphere.”
“The Earth a Sphere—Certain astronomical relations were recognized very early. The stars appear as if attached to a globe rotating round the earth once in 24 hours, and this appearance was clearly familiar to the author of the Book of Job, and indeed long before the time of Abraham, since the formation of the constellations could not have been effected without such recognition. But the spherical form of the heavens almost involves a similar form for the earth, and their apparent diurnal rotation certainly means that they are not rigidly connected with the earth, but surround it on all sides at some distance from it. The earth therefore must be freely suspended in space, and so the Book of Job describes it: ‘He stretcheth out the north over empty space, and hangeth the earth upon nothing’ (Job 26:7).” (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia)]
Proverbs 8:27 also suggests a round earth by use of the word circle (e.g., New King James Bible and New American Standard Bible). If you are overlooking the ocean, the horizon appears as a circle. This circle on the horizon is described in Job 26:10. The circle on the face of the waters is one of the proofs that the Greeks used for a spherical earth. Yet here it is recorded in Job, ages before the Greeks discovered it. Job 26:10 indicates that where light terminates, darkness begins. This suggests day and night on a spherical globe. [JSM]
The Hebrew record is the oldest, because Job is one of the oldest books in the Bible. Historians generally [wrongly] credit the Greeks with being the first to suggest a spherical earth. In the sixth century B.C., Pythagoras suggested a spherical earth. [JSM]
Eratosthenes of Alexandria (circa 276 to 194 or 192 B.C.) calcuated the circumference of the earth “within 50 miles of the present estimate.” [Encyclopedia Brittanica]
The Greeks also drew meridians and parallels. They identified such areas as the poles, equator, and tropics. This spherical earth concept did not prevail; the Romans drew the earth as a flat disk with oceans around it. [JSM]
The round shape of our planet was a conclusion easily drawn by watching ships disappear over the horizon and also by observing eclipse shadows, and we can assume that such information was well known to New Testament writers. Earth's spherical shape was, of course, also understood by Christopher Columbus. [DD]
The implication of a round earth is seen in the book of Luke, where Jesus described his return, Luke 17:31. Jesus said, “In that day,” then in verse 34, “In that night.” This is an allusion to light on one side of the globe and darkness on the other simultaneously. [JSM]
It is also interesting to note that there are 16 scriptures which refer to God stretching out the heavens. These are remarkable confirmations that the Bible is true, as we know today that the heavens are rapidly expanding. [TH]
“When the Bible touches on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate.” [DD]
More information
A literal translation of Job 26:10 is “He described a circle upon the face of the waters, until the day and night come to an end.” A spherical earth is also described in Isaiah 40:21-22—“the circle of the earth.”
Note, the Biblical Hebrew word for “circle” (חוג—chuwg) can also mean “round” or “sphere.”
“The Earth a Sphere—Certain astronomical relations were recognized very early. The stars appear as if attached to a globe rotating round the earth once in 24 hours, and this appearance was clearly familiar to the author of the Book of Job, and indeed long before the time of Abraham, since the formation of the constellations could not have been effected without such recognition. But the spherical form of the heavens almost involves a similar form for the earth, and their apparent diurnal rotation certainly means that they are not rigidly connected with the earth, but surround it on all sides at some distance from it. The earth therefore must be freely suspended in space, and so the Book of Job describes it: ‘He stretcheth out the north over empty space, and hangeth the earth upon nothing’ (Job 26:7).” (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia)]
Proverbs 8:27 also suggests a round earth by use of the word circle (e.g., New King James Bible and New American Standard Bible). If you are overlooking the ocean, the horizon appears as a circle. This circle on the horizon is described in Job 26:10. The circle on the face of the waters is one of the proofs that the Greeks used for a spherical earth. Yet here it is recorded in Job, ages before the Greeks discovered it. Job 26:10 indicates that where light terminates, darkness begins. This suggests day and night on a spherical globe. [JSM]
The Hebrew record is the oldest, because Job is one of the oldest books in the Bible. Historians generally [wrongly] credit the Greeks with being the first to suggest a spherical earth. In the sixth century B.C., Pythagoras suggested a spherical earth. [JSM]
Eratosthenes of Alexandria (circa 276 to 194 or 192 B.C.) calcuated the circumference of the earth “within 50 miles of the present estimate.” [Encyclopedia Brittanica]
The Greeks also drew meridians and parallels. They identified such areas as the poles, equator, and tropics. This spherical earth concept did not prevail; the Romans drew the earth as a flat disk with oceans around it. [JSM]
The round shape of our planet was a conclusion easily drawn by watching ships disappear over the horizon and also by observing eclipse shadows, and we can assume that such information was well known to New Testament writers. Earth's spherical shape was, of course, also understood by Christopher Columbus. [DD]
The implication of a round earth is seen in the book of Luke, where Jesus described his return, Luke 17:31. Jesus said, “In that day,” then in verse 34, “In that night.” This is an allusion to light on one side of the globe and darkness on the other simultaneously. [JSM]
It is also interesting to note that there are 16 scriptures which refer to God stretching out the heavens. These are remarkable confirmations that the Bible is true, as we know today that the heavens are rapidly expanding. [TH]
“When the Bible touches on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate.” [DD]
More information
Mitch M
Member
Actually I worded it wrong. Instead of saying ( it took 400 years after the death of Christ, for the Roman Catholic Church to translate the bible INTO Hebrew and Greek. }
the CORRECTED way to say it, is. That _______ it took 400 years after the death of Christ, for the Roman Catholic Church to translate the bible FROM Hebrew and Greek __ INTO Italian.
then it took the Catholic Church another 1,500 . ( One Thousand Five Hundred } - Years to Translate the Bible Into ANY other Language.
English.. Sorry. wrong way to say it. CORRECTED.
Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a CIRCLE upon the face of the depth:
H2329 חוּג chûg / khoog
From H2328; a circle: - circle, circuit, compassive
khoog
From H2328; a circle: - circle, circuit, compassive
the CORRECTED way to say it, is. That _______ it took 400 years after the death of Christ, for the Roman Catholic Church to translate the bible FROM Hebrew and Greek __ INTO Italian.
then it took the Catholic Church another 1,500 . ( One Thousand Five Hundred } - Years to Translate the Bible Into ANY other Language.
English.. Sorry. wrong way to say it. CORRECTED.
Pro 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a CIRCLE upon the face of the depth:
H2329 חוּג chûg / khoog
From H2328; a circle: - circle, circuit, compassive
khoog
From H2328; a circle: - circle, circuit, compassive
Last edited by a moderator:
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Thanks for your many thoughtful comments. I apologize for being away on a missions trip overseas and then I came home to have to travel to a funeral.
I find that the words for circle/sphere are argued, even today, by Hebrew scholars, whether they are conservative or liberal, but that in context, it can be proven that the scripture writers did not believe in a flat Earth. Also that the Bible did not predict Jesus's immediate, imminent return. Rather, the NT and OT alike give quite a few conditions for Jesus's return, some which are fulfilled currently, and others awaiting fulfillment.
Thank you.
I find that the words for circle/sphere are argued, even today, by Hebrew scholars, whether they are conservative or liberal, but that in context, it can be proven that the scripture writers did not believe in a flat Earth. Also that the Bible did not predict Jesus's immediate, imminent return. Rather, the NT and OT alike give quite a few conditions for Jesus's return, some which are fulfilled currently, and others awaiting fulfillment.
Thank you.
Mitch M
Member
Mitch M
Member
I would not Consider myself a Christian. But i do believe that Yahoshua was the Messiah and Son of God. I BELIEVE the New Testament as well.
The Believers in the Bible Never Coined, Termed or Labeled Themselves as Christians. Never is anyone such as the Early Church or any Believers in the Bible - going about Calling themselves as Christians. Paul Was CALLED and Labeed a Christian by the Roman Authority/ and the Christians at Antioch were CALLED Christians by the Worldly Citizens around them. I personally have no need to call myself a Christian but I do believe that Jesus / Yahoshua is the Son of God.
Christian is a Term used by the world. Mainly the Pagans and Rome. To label or Categorise or classify the Early Believers and Early Church. as SPIRITUALISTs - Which is what the word Christian Means. (* A SPIRITUAL PERSON ) - I have no need to call Myself anything but a Believer in Jesus the Spirit of God. Who is Come manifested / MORPHED into Flesh.
it is True that Romantic Catholicism had continued to Label and Call Believers in Jesus as Christians. But there are Millions of People calling themselves Christians, who Believe many, many different ideas and faiths. All based on their personal Imagination and not really the simple Biblical view. I believe the Bible. I am a bible believer who believes in the God of the Bible.
The Believers in the Bible Never Coined, Termed or Labeled Themselves as Christians. Never is anyone such as the Early Church or any Believers in the Bible - going about Calling themselves as Christians. Paul Was CALLED and Labeed a Christian by the Roman Authority/ and the Christians at Antioch were CALLED Christians by the Worldly Citizens around them. I personally have no need to call myself a Christian but I do believe that Jesus / Yahoshua is the Son of God.
Christian is a Term used by the world. Mainly the Pagans and Rome. To label or Categorise or classify the Early Believers and Early Church. as SPIRITUALISTs - Which is what the word Christian Means. (* A SPIRITUAL PERSON ) - I have no need to call Myself anything but a Believer in Jesus the Spirit of God. Who is Come manifested / MORPHED into Flesh.
it is True that Romantic Catholicism had continued to Label and Call Believers in Jesus as Christians. But there are Millions of People calling themselves Christians, who Believe many, many different ideas and faiths. All based on their personal Imagination and not really the simple Biblical view. I believe the Bible. I am a bible believer who believes in the God of the Bible.
Last edited:
Many a skeptic claims that the Bible depicts a flat earth. Scriptural references such as Revelation 7:1 are cited, which speaks of “four angels standing at the four corners of the earth.” However, this passage makes reference to the cardinal directions as seen on a compass – i.e. north, south, east and west. Terminology to a similar effect is used today when we speak of the sun rising and setting each day, even though we know that it is, in fact, the earth which orbits around the sun.
Another passage often referred to is Psalm 75:3, which speaks of God holding the pillars firm. However, the psalms are written in the poetry genre. Rather than referring to literal pillars, this is representative of God’s guaranteeing the earth’s stability. Even when the moral order of the world seems to have crumbled, God will not fully withdraw His sustaining power.
In contrast to the supposed “flat earth” verses, there are numerous Scriptures that clearly indicate otherwise. The earth is described in Job 26:7 as being suspended over empty space, implying a spherical figure. This notion is further entertained in Isaiah 40:21-22, which refers to “the circle of the earth.” This is further supported by Proverbs 8:27 (NKJV), which speaks of God drawing a circle on the face of the deep. From a “bird’s-eye view” of the ocean, the horizon is seen as a circle. Such an observation indicates that where light terminates, darkness begins, describing the reality of day and night on a spherical earth.
The round-earth idea is further supported by Jesus in Luke 17:31,34: “In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back...I tell you, in that night there will be two people in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left.” This would seem to indicate the phenomenon of day on one side of the globe while darkness abides on the other.
In conclusion, the curvature of the earth is certainly a biblical concept, and there is little or no basis for the charge that the Bible teaches a flat earth. The Scriptures that seem to present a flat earth can all easily be explained when correctly interpreted and understood.
Read more: Does the Bible teach that the earth is flat?