flaws in the gospels: Jesus' birth, when?

[oldbadger]

The Urantia Book, section 1351.5.

That's not fair! Where (on Earth) am I going to get one of those?

Seriously, I have not heard of this book. I am off to look out for it.

 

[gnostic]

Please note that Luke [2 vs 1,2 ] refers to the 'first' or earlier tax registration.

Josephus mentions a 'duel' rulership in Syria. Two persons serving simultaneously.
-XVI,227, 280; XVI 334
If Josephus is correct, then Quirinius could have served at the same time with another person either Saturninus or Varus.
Remember: Simultaneous serving not impossible because Saturninus did serve simultaneously with Volumnius.
Josephus mentions a simultaneous assignment of Quirinius with Coponius.
XVIII 1,2,3,4
So a 'duel' rulership was quite possible making earlier and later rulerships possible.
The revolt [ Acts 5 v 37] took place according to Josephus in the 37th year after Caesar's defeat [ XVIII,26 ] that would indicate Quirinius as governor in 6 C.E.

The Lapis Tiburtinus found in Rome [1764] could apply to Quirinius.
The Lapis Venetus found in Venice could refer to either a first or earlier census.

There is No evidence that any early historian challenged what Luke wrote.

You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about.

Josephus clearly stated that Quirinius only became legate to Syria AFTER Augustus exiled Herod Archelaus. Coponius was appointed as prefect or procurator of Judaea, also after Archelaus' exile. And because of Judaea being a NEW PROVINCE, a census was required; there were no "first" census in Archelaus' father's time because Judaea was not a roman province.

It wasn't a dual governors to Judaea. A legate always outrank a prefect or procurator. Coponius wasn't equal to a legate. And there were never 2 legates serving at the same time. The legate in Syria (whomever it is, since Augustus became emperor in 27 BCE) has 4 legions. If there was ever trouble in Judaea (like war or rebellion), the legate can step in and take charge, otherwise the prefect do his usual duties.

And lastly, Quirinius wasn't in Syria during the last 10 years of Herod the Great. Prior to his consulship in 12 BCE, Quirinius served in both Crete and Cyrenaica. After that he was legate in Galatia and Cilicia, and between 5 and 3 BCE, he had to quell rebellion from the Homonadenses.

After that, Quirinius served under Gaius Caesar, and later Tiberius (1-3 CE) in Armenia.

Yes, Quirinius did become legate, twice, but not twice in Syria, as you have mistakenly and falsely claimed. The 1st time was in Galatia, and 2nd time in Syria.

You've done nothing but repeatedly make false claims, one after the other. You've made conjecture, without looking at the historical facts.

And I will repeat again, there was no general census taken of the entire Roman empire, which Luke so claimed. False claim.

Luke also claimed that Joseph have to travel from Galilee to Bethlehem to register in the census; another false claim. There is no requirement for anyone to travel to ancestral home, if that person was living elsewhere. And since Galilee was not part of the Roman Empire (meaning it wasn't a Roman province), any person living in Galilee, wouldn't need to register for census. And beside all that, how would the Romans even know that Joseph's ancestral home was Bethlehem. The Romans are great record-keepers, but they wouldn't know something about which tribe Joseph belong to. This whole notion of Joseph travelling to Bethlehem is absolutely ridiculous.

In Matthew 1 & 2, it would seem that Joseph was actually living in Bethlehem, instead of Galilee. Joseph only moved into Nazareth after his return from self-exile in Egypt. There were no census (in gospel of Matthew), nor mention of Quirinius, and no mention of shepherds, angels and no manger.

Get your fact right.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Page 531 # 280 B ...hearing before Saturninus and Volumnius ...presidents of Syria [joint]

Page 571 # 1,2,3,4 Roman senator Cyrenius came down to Syria ...Coponius a man of the equestrian order sent with Cyrenius to have the supreme power over the Jews....

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Nothing pre 30 in jesus life has any historcity at all. Luke would have never known jesus,

Luke knew people Jesus knew.

Daniel is an HISTORICAL book that was written centuries before Jesus.
Because of Daniel's writings about the '70 weeks of years' the people of Luke [3 v 15] knew to be in expectation of Messiah coming at that first-century time frame.

The time before Jesus as Messiah's arrival was measured in: weeks of years.
Meaning each week was seven years long.
There would be 7 plus 62 of such weeks of years [Daniel 9 v 25]
That would make a total of 69 weeks of years that equals 483 years.
According to Scripture that period, or span of years, began when Nehemiah arrived in Jerusalem to rebuilt Jerusalem. Persian HISTORY places that date as 455 BCE -Nehemiah 2 vs 1-5
Jesus arrived exactly in the first century as Daniel recorded.

 

[gnostic]

Page 571 # 1,2,3,4 Roman senator Cyrenius came down to Syria ...Coponius a man of the equestrian order sent with Cyrenius to have the supreme power over the Jews....

Coponius himself was sent to Judaea (as prefect), not Quirinius. Can't you damn read, man?

Augustus appointed, which governors go where. The day-to-day business of governing Judaea, was left to Coponius. Quirinius would only provide muscle-power, should Coponius encounter a larger problem that Coponius' soldiers could not handle.

Quirnius' appointment in Syria, may have happen at the same time as Coponius, but that doesn't mean Quirinius was governor of Syria while Herod I was king. These appointment happened after Archelaus was exiled from Judaea in 6 CE.

Like I wrote in my last post, Quirinius was already serving elsewhere as governor (legate in Galatia), where had to quell the rebellious Homonadenses (from 12 to 1 BCE), who lived in both Galatia and Cilicia. And he was appointed as legate of Galatia, between 5 BCE and 3 BCE (Tacitus, Annals 3:48). Are you going to all ignore of this?

And beside all that, the Lapis Tiburtinus never stated Quirinius by name, so how can you even considered to be referring to Quirinius, other than your wishful thinking. And it also state "two victories" not 2 terms of governorship in Syria. It mention the province of Asia, which is Asia Minor, not Syria. Asia and Africa were the only 2 provinces in the Roman empire, during Augustus and Tiberius' times, under the control of the Senate, AND Quirinius never served as senatorial proconsul in Asia.

 

[gnostic]

As to the Lapis Venetus, it never say that Quirinius served in Syria twice, nor do the inscriptions say anything about the census being held twice in Judaea. Again, one dose of false claim from you, and 3 doses of wishful thinking on your part.