Cockadoodledoo
You’re going to get me!
Has the universe fooled atheists into thinking there is no God?
Or can’t atheists be fooled?
Or can’t atheists be fooled?
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Fooling atheists
- Thread starter Cockadoodledoo
- Start date
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
It is not the universethat has fooled anyone, it is Satan. God has left much evidence of His existence but has allowed Satan to cloud people's minds so that only a few really faithful can see the truth. Atheists do not see the truth so the say God does not exist. It is not their fault but they have fallen under the influence of Satan who they also cannot see so they will of course deny that this is the way it is.
WalterTrull
Godfella
No matter our opinions, we only fool ourselves.
Just so we're clear: are you saying that what we see around us doesn't justify belief in gods?
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
It's said that Satan's greatest trick was convincing people that he did not exist.
Not to be outdone by his arch nemesis, God quickly followed suit.
Cockadoodledoo
You’re going to get me!
Let’s take an example.........
I don’t know the actual figures, but let’s say malaria kills 10,000 children a year.
This example could encourage 10,000 people to become atheists.
So could this example fool the atheists into thinking there’s no God.
Couldn’t it be part of God’s plan for malaria to kill innocent children?
The universe is as is!!!!!!!
How would anyone know, and why it would be of any importance anyway?
Thermos aquaticus
Well-Known Member
That same argument could be made for any belief that you dream up. There is plenty of evidence for leprechauns but the pixies cloud peoples' minds so they can't see the evidence. There is plenty of evidence for extraterrestrials and UFO's but the CIA puts mind controlling substances into the public water systems which prevents us from seeing the evidence. There is plenty of evidence for Bigfoot, but the Great Spirit clouds our minds so we can't see the evidence in order to protect Bigfoot from us mean humans.
Theists can't supply the evidence, so we see no reason to believe that God exists.
Cockadoodledoo
You’re going to get me!
If the universe was fooling atheists into believing there’s no God,
Perhaps they should become agnostics.
Anything "could be" anything that is not directly contradicted by what is known to be true, but that is not really an useful way to analyse situations.
Again, I am reminded not only of Russell's Teapot but also about the mystery of whether I might be the lycantropic, Alpha Centaurian true inheritor of some European throne or two.
Sure, that is silly, but that is the point.
Why should anyone presume to know better than the Universe, even if we somehow knew that scenario to be true?
Thermos aquaticus
Well-Known Member
Most atheists are also agnostics. Atheism is about what you believe and agnosticism is about what you know. They are answers to two different questions.
You assume the universe has evil intent? The universe is a conscious, intelligent being out to do harm to humanity?
Who created the universe?
Cockadoodledoo
You’re going to get me!
I suppose what i’m Saying is.....
Just because the Universe works in a certain way,
This doesn’t say anything about whether there’s a Creator or not.
That seems logical to me.
Even if physicists came up with a theory of everything....
And explained the universe with an equation....
Again this doesn’t rule out God,
He might have his own equation of explanation.
The universe can’t fool the agnostic,
For he doesn’t know and admits it.
But both atheists and theists are open to foolication.
I rest my case!!
Those sorts of examples lead more to conclusions like "if God exists, he's a jerk" and "religions that preach a benevolent god must be wrong," not "God must not exist."
Sure - that's one idea that fits with the available facts. I see no particular reason to assume it's likely to be true, but it's an idea that hasn't been absolutely disproven.
But I'm an atheist, and I've never seen anything that has suggested to me that a god exists. It seems to me that you're agreeing that I came to a reasonable conclusion, even though you have an idea about how it might be reasonable and wrong at the same time.
Sure, it is possible to believe in a Creator God if someone really wants to. Regardless of pretty much anything else that might or might not happen or exist.
If that is what you mean, I can't help but agree. I think you are giving the matter a lot more thought than it warrants, but I agree.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
What is the difference between:
- a universe in which God exists but has setup anything and everything to completely hide His existence
- a universe in which God does not exist
Cockadoodledoo
You’re going to get me!
So an agnostic atheist knows what he believes could be wrong?
Cockadoodledoo
You’re going to get me!
I know what 1 and 2 have in common........
1 and 2 means we may never know the truth.
Thermos aquaticus
Well-Known Member
Not quite. An agnostic accepts that they don't know everything, so there could be evidence they are missing. An atheist lacks a belief in deities because they have yet to see evidence for deities. An atheist isn't wrong in saying that they have yet to see convincing evidence for the existence of deities. If at a later date there is convincing evidence then they are not proven wrong since up until that point they did not have that evidence.
The mistake you seem to be making is in not understanding the difference between a lack of belief and a belief that something doesn't exist. Those are two different things. I don't believe that Bigfoot exists, but I also happily admit that there is an extreme outside chance that Bigfoot does exist. Do you understand the differences between the two?