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Footage of George Floyd arrest video leaked

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Leaked video shows first moments of George Floyd's fatal arrest by Minneapolis officers

Newly leaked bodycam video Monday showed a frightened George Floyd begging police not to lock him in a squad car, shortly before he lost consciousness under a police officer's knee.

The Daily Mail posted the leaked material on its site Monday, video that’s part of the case against four Minneapolis police officers who have been criminally charged in connection to Floyd's death.

While the source of the video was not immediately clear, the video matches some of what was shown to NBC News at the courthouse during pre-trial hearings for the officers.

Police bodycam footage of George Floyd arrest leaked, published despite public distribution being prohibited

But The Daily Mail said it exclusively obtained the May 25 footage from the body cameras of former rookie officers Thomas Lane and J Alexander Kueng. The video shows about 18 minutes from Kueng's body cam and 10 minutes from Lane's.

The pair were the first to arrive at the Cup Foods convenience store after a complaint that Floyd allegedly tried to pass off a fake $20 bill. Video shot by bystanders showing an officer pinning his knee into Floyd's next for nearly nine minutes before his death sparked global outrage and unleashed a wave of protests against police brutality and racial injustice that still continues.

Hennepin County District Court spokesman Spenser Bickett told Fox News the court was aware of the leak.

"The court is working with the Hennepin County Sheriff and investigating how the Daily Mail obtained copies of two video exhibits," Bickett said.

Hennepin County District Judge Peter Cahill barred the videos from being viewed outside the courthouse despite opposition from media groups. He is presiding over the case involving now-former police officers Kueng, Lane, Tou Thau and Derek Chauvin.

Maybe instead of investigating how the Daily Mail obtained copies of the videos, they should be investigating the judge and trying to determine his reasoning for withholding the videos in the first place.

All of this should have been released the same day as George Floyd's death. The police have an obligation to be transparent and open to the public.


The first few moments shows that they approached with guns drawn for a non-violent offense. Now we know why they didn't want the public seeing it.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
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Premium Member
I also find it interesting that the cops started shaking down the passengers...just because. But the passengers were saying in the video that Floyd "had problems," implying that he wasn't all the way there. They also said that he was afraid of police and that he had been shot before.

So, they knew the guy was afraid and had a mental problem - and he was obviously not a threat after being cuffed. He really didn't offer any resistance at all. There was really no need for a rush either. They should have just waited it out until he was calmed down and ready. Maybe they should have called a social worker or a mental health crisis team to defuse the situation.

There was really no need for this at all. All over a fake $20 bill.
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
Maybe instead of investigating how the Daily Mail obtained copies of the videos, they should be investigating the judge and trying to determine his reasoning for withholding the videos in the first place.
Why not both? Or do you think the tabloid media should be free to do anything they want to make money?

I suspect the judge withheld the videos to try to reduced the trial by (social) media and lynch mob that the likes of the Daily Mail would love to encourage (as long as they got the exclusive on the video of that too). I mean, if you're going to run trials on message boards, why both having a criminal justice system at all?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
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Premium Member
Why not both? Or do you think the tabloid media should be free to do anything they want to make money?

I suspect the judge withheld the videos to try to reduced the trial by (social) media and lynch mob that the likes of the Daily Mail would love to encourage (as long as they got the exclusive on the video of that too). I mean, if you're going to run trials on message boards, why both having a criminal justice system at all?

Yes, I guess rioting and havoc are preferable to actually being transparent and addressing the public's concerns.

The best way to get out in front of these things is through immediate full disclosure, transparency, and justice as swiftly as possible. If they drag their feet or look like they're covering up, there's sure to be a riot. That's what happened in this case.

Riots typically don't happen because of racist cops. They happen when racist authorities attempt to cover up for racist cops.

I actually find it interesting that, since this incident occurred, the narrative has shifted away from the actual event and the people involved (along with the political party which is dominant in the state and municipality where it occurred). Withholding the video seems to fall in line with what appears to be an active campaign to distract and confuse the public.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Why not both? Or do you think the tabloid media should be free to do anything they want to make money?

I suspect the judge withheld the videos to try to reduced the trial by (social) media and lynch mob that the likes of the Daily Mail would love to encourage (as long as they got the exclusive on the video of that too). I mean, if you're going to run trials on message boards, why both having a criminal justice system at all?
That's not for him to control. A fair trial, yes; but not the media, or the public's right to know.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
That's not for him to control.
In fact it is.
You may not like that law. There are laws I don't like, such as RoevWade. But they still exist.
I hope that the criminal who is interfering with the trial is caught and prosecuted.
Tom
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
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Premium Member
In fact it is.

Debatable, since the people are the owners of the video, not the judge. The judge is also an employee of the people; it's not his own private court. But the real question is what the reasoning is for withholding the video. I would question whether it's truly in the interest of a fair trial to withhold the video.

There's also the question of whether it even makes sense to withhold information from the public and create the appearance of a cover up. I imagine you've probably noticed that a lot of cities have fallen into chaos and violence these past months, all because police departments, judges, and other governmental authorities refuse to be transparent and tell the public the straight story. So, considering the violence, the damage costs (in the billions, I suspect), violations of the public trust - even to the point of sending in federal agents to round people up, the results speak for themselves.

It's obvious that withholding information from the public is a pretty crappy idea, and maybe judges should rethink the strategies they use, since their decisions lead to such horrific consequences. Even if he's allowed to "control" it, as you say, then he can still be called to account for how he uses that control. Based on the results and consequences, I would say this judge screwed up very, very badly.

The real underlying outrage here is that, if the original video had never been made or come to light, this case would have been swept under the rug (like so many others) and never would have been brought to the public's attention.

I would suggest that these incidents aren't entirely due to the cops, but also to certain enablers within the "justice system" who aid and abet these unconscionable, unconstitutional actions by turning the blind eye and refusing to inform the public.

You may not like that law. There are laws I don't like, such as RoevWade. But they still exist.
I hope that the criminal who is interfering with the trial is caught and prosecuted.
Tom

Just like Snowden or other whistle blowers? Our government is not supposed to act like the Mafia. They're not supposed to have "omerta." They're supposed to be accountable to the people.

It's also not a matter of whether someone likes or dislikes the law. This is about the law and the Constitution and basic human rights.

In the end, there may not be any way to completely and totally prevent these kinds of incidents and tragedies. There will always be "a few bad apples" in the barrel, but whether or not society moves forward is dependent upon how we respond to these incidents, how swiftly justice comes about. Justice delayed is justice denied. While many people are blaming Trump for this, and many others are blaming Robert E. Lee and Andrew Jackson, it occurs to me that a large portion of blame should actually fall upon the judiciary, since they've allowed all of this to go on for decades.

I don't think they should be given a pass here. Whatever it is they think they're doing, whatever "control" they wish to exercise, it's obvious that whatever they think is right is probably wrong.
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
Yes, I guess rioting and havoc are preferable to actually being transparent and addressing the public's concerns.
Rioting is indefensible regardless of what anyone else does or doesn't do.

The best way to get out in front of these things is through immediate full disclosure, transparency, and justice as swiftly as possible. If they drag their feet or look like they're covering up, there's sure to be a riot. That's what happened in this case.
I don't know what the actual sequence of events was in this case. I do know that your demand that everything should be released on the same day is totally unrealistic and the creation of unrealistic expectations is most certainly one of the causes of disputes and protests.

Riots typically don't happen because of racist cops. They happen when racist authorities attempt to cover up for racist cops.
No, they happen because people are incited to anger by what they're told is happening, regardless of whether that is true or not. The key problem with what you're talking about is that this video and other information isn't really released to the public, it's released to the media. The media will then select, manipulate and spin that information to create the most profitable stories for themselves. And the stuff that stirs up protests (and ultimately violence) is often the same kind of thing.

Part of the reason we have criminal justice systems is to avoid having people respond to situations on the basis of limited or manipulated information. All the evidence needs to be gathered, carefully assessed together and all of the relevant fact established. That process can be frustratingly slow and it certainly isn't perfect (nothing involving human beings is) but it's still better than nothing at all.

I actually find it interesting that, since this incident occurred, the narrative has shifted away from the actual event and the people involved (along with the political party which is dominant in the state and municipality where it occurred). Withholding the video seems to fall in line with what appears to be an active campaign to distract and confuse the public.
Is it though, or is the perception of "withholding" the video prior to it being presented in court (which is standard legal practice) being misrepresented and spun to confuse and distract the pubic? And are you just an innocent victim of that or are you actually engaging in the spin yourself?
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
That's not for him to control. A fair trial, yes; but not the media, or the public's right to know.
Evidence is legal cases should not be released to the public until after the case has concluded. Other wise it will be selectively reported, leading to trial by media and, if a one-sided presentation becomes too widespread, a potential mistrial. There is absolutely nothing about releasing evidence to the public before it is presented in court that aids a fair trial. There is nothing new or special about any of this. It is only the politics of this case that is causing it to be spun differently.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Leaked video shows first moments of George Floyd's fatal arrest by Minneapolis officers



Police bodycam footage of George Floyd arrest leaked, published despite public distribution being prohibited





Maybe instead of investigating how the Daily Mail obtained copies of the videos, they should be investigating the judge and trying to determine his reasoning for withholding the videos in the first place.

All of this should have been released the same day as George Floyd's death. The police have an obligation to be transparent and open to the public.


The first few moments shows that they approached with guns drawn for a non-violent offense. Now we know why they didn't want the public seeing it.
so ....in the first few seconds.....
I can see the reflection of the officer in the window of the car

he did not draw his weapon until the suspect failed to show his right hand

and the suspect is doing his best to play victim

it is tragic his play went too far
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
after the cuffs go on.....your best hope is an attorney

silence would have been sooooooooo good
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Debatable, since the people are the owners of the video, not the judge.
Why do you believe this?
The judge is charged with providing a fair trial. The evidence belongs to the court, not some media driven internet lynch mob. After the trial, releasing the evidence should be done, usually. But not necessarily.

Why do you think that the craziest people on the internet have ownership of trial evidence?
Tom
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Evidence is legal cases should not be released to the public until after the case has concluded. Other wise it will be selectively reported, leading to trial by media and, if a one-sided presentation becomes too widespread, a potential mistrial. There is absolutely nothing about releasing evidence to the public before it is presented in court that aids a fair trial. There is nothing new or special about any of this. It is only the politics of this case that is causing it to be spun differently.
I think that all that is really being said is that there should be some form of accountability to the public expected and actualized throughout the policing/judicial systems due to the fact that the main players are on the public payroll. They don't have a paycheck without monies coming from those of us on the actual "front lines" of economic earner-ship. There should be more transparency, and then "covering things up" wouldn't be able to happen as often, and therefore there would be a lot more incentive for everyone involved to do what they should be doing from the start. Or, at least, what the public (their employer, after all) expects them to be doing because it conforms with what is deemed right/fair/principled.

If your boss says "don't kneel on people's necks with a potential for resulting death as a form of restraint," you should probably just listen to your boss.
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
from the video....I get the impression George claimed he couldn't breath
long before he ended up on the ground

panic attack

so of course the cops aren't going to stop the arrest
regardless of the claim

and George kept complaining he couldn't breath

until he actually couldn't

I think he died from a heart attack
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Rioting is indefensible regardless of what anyone else does or doesn't do.

Agreed, although it's on the government to try to ameliorate these kinds of situations before it turns into a riot. Saying that "rioting is indefensible" may be legally and morally correct, but is it a practical position to take? Sometimes politics involves a bit of give and take - and not everything is necessarily done by the book, nor is that even always desirable.

I don't know what the actual sequence of events was in this case. I do know that your demand that everything should be released on the same day is totally unrealistic and the creation of unrealistic expectations is most certainly one of the causes of disputes and protests.

Maybe 50-75 years ago, this might have been the case. Nowadays, we have technologies where a video can be taken in one minute and uploaded to the internet the next. It's certainly technologically possible to release video on the same day, so that's not the issue.

The only thing that's unrealistic is expecting judges, politicians, lawyers, cops, and/or other government officials to act and behave as reasonable human beings.

No, they happen because people are incited to anger by what they're told is happening, regardless of whether that is true or not. The key problem with what you're talking about is that this video and other information isn't really released to the public, it's released to the media. The media will then select, manipulate and spin that information to create the most profitable stories for themselves. And the stuff that stirs up protests (and ultimately violence) is often the same kind of thing.

Well, if the powers that be in government wanted to bypass the media, they could release the video over the internet for the public to access on their own, without any media spin. Just the raw footage and let the people decide for themselves. Again, the way to get out in front of these things is to stay one step ahead of the media.

The thing is, the politicians are responding to the manipulation and spin the media are creating here. The current media spin is actually beneficial to the politicians and the police, since the public seems convinced that the culprit in this crime is the late Andrew Jackson or that some cops are racist or white people are racists or whatever - just as long as the focus is taken away from the actual cops who did this and the city/state government where it happened. It seems like the focus has been put on everything else except what actually happened to George Floyd and the individuals responsible. I find that interesting, and this is what the media are spinning - and the politicians are clearly going along with that narrative.

Part of the reason we have criminal justice systems is to avoid having people respond to situations on the basis of limited or manipulated information. All the evidence needs to be gathered, carefully assessed together and all of the relevant fact established. That process can be frustratingly slow and it certainly isn't perfect (nothing involving human beings is) but it's still better than nothing at all.

Another part of the reason we have criminal justice systems is to dispense justice on behalf of the people. The reason we're having to deal with riots now is because of a long track record of the criminal justice system repeatedly failing in that task. That's why it might be worthwhile to examine the methods and tactics they use - such as their philosophical decision to withhold evidence from public view. This isn't rocket science. They're making these decisions based on their own opinion of what they think is the correct course of action to take, probably because "this is the way we've always done it."

But my point is, whatever old school principles you're subscribing to simply won't cut it anymore. People are rioting because they feel they're not getting justice from the same system which appears fossilized and intransigent. So whatever way "we've always done it" may not be the correct way. Whatever standards or methods they believe are "the correct way" may not be that. Realizing that the system is not perfect, maybe they should consider making some changes and reforms. Or is that too "unrealistic"?

Is it though, or is the perception of "withholding" the video prior to it being presented in court (which is standard legal practice) being misrepresented and spun to confuse and distract the pubic? And are you just an innocent victim of that or are you actually engaging in the spin yourself?

"Standard legal practice," huh? Obviously, "standard legal practice" doesn't get the job done, does it? Maybe the problem isn't due to "spin" but more to fossilized, outmoded "standard legal practices."

In any case, the original video had already come out. That was what triggered the riots in the first place, although it didn't happen right away. It really didn't get started until a few days after the incident and the posting of the video. They had time to immediately arrest and charge the police officers involved, and presumably they would have enough time to review the body cam footage as well. All they did at first was fire the police officers, and it wasn't until after the riots started that they actually arrested Chauvin. It was several days after that when they arrested and charged the officers involved.

So, no matter how you slice it, it was a major screw up.

If anyone else, other than a cop, had put their knee on someone's neck and held them there until they died, that person would have been arrested immediately and put in jail. And I don't think the cops or the judges would have had any compunction about explaining why they arrested him if anyone from the media asked. Likewise, the chances are minimal that there would be a riot if most of the public was satisfied that justice was being done.

I've seen similar cases where the local authorities got out in front of it, made it clear from the outset that they weren't going to cover up or protect the cop, reassuring the public (or most of them anyway) that justice would be done. Remember, after the Rodney King incident, the people didn't riot because of the event itself, but because of the not guilty verdict for the cops who did it.

If "standard legal practice" is insufficient to convince and assure the public that justice will be done, then perhaps that should be reexamined.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
so ....in the first few seconds.....
I can see the reflection of the officer in the window of the car

he did not draw his weapon until the suspect failed to show his right hand

and the suspect is doing his best to play victim

it is tragic his play went too far

I'm not convinced he was playing victim. It appeared he had gone into a state of panic. They were responding to a call about a guy with a fake $20 bill. This wasn't a capital crime, and they weren't going after El Chapo.

But as for the "play," the cops also had their own play. The things they say and do are all scripted, trained, rehearsed, and repeated over and over. That's part of the problem, since they seem unable or unwilling to ad lib if the scene doesn't go according to the script. They were dealing with a guy who was panicked and clearly in some kind of mental distress, yet they just didn't get it. They couldn't understand what to do.

You gotta wonder sometimes. One might well wonder how people like El Chapo or MS-13 or other gangs and cartels can ostensibly operate with such utter impunity, while the cops and legal authorities seem impotent to stop it. So, where is their strength? Where do they end up flexing their "muscle"? They go after petty criminals over fake $20 bills. Aren't they tough?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Why do you believe this?

Because it was the taxpayers who paid the salaries of those police officers, they paid for the vehicle they used to get there, they paid for the body cam footage, and they paid for the equipment used to process and store the video footage.

Whoever paid for it are the ones who own it. Isn't that a reasonable conclusion?

The judge is charged with providing a fair trial. The evidence belongs to the court, not some media driven internet lynch mob. After the trial, releasing the evidence should be done, usually. But not necessarily.

The evidence belongs to all of the people, not some "media driven internet lynch mob."

In any case, withholding evidence hasn't really stopped anything. It hasn't prevented any riots. The "media driven internet lynch mob" is already out there in force.

Besides, surely the evidence is expected to be presented at the trial anyway. The original video and the resulting chaos and political fallout has undoubtedly tainted the pool of potential jurors, so I'm not sure what more could happen by releasing the other video or whether they'd even want a jury trial. They might be better off having the judge make the verdict, but either way, the final verdict will not be delivered by a lynch mob, but after due process which should be the judge's purview. It would really be on the judge if the trial is not fair, and that really has nothing to do with whether the public has seen the video or not.

Come to think of it, I seem to recall that it was one of the defendant's attorneys who originally requested that the body cam footage be released.

Why do you think that the craziest people on the internet have ownership of trial evidence?
Tom

The Constitution of the United States starts off with the phrase "We The People," not "We, the craziest people on the internet." We all own it together, as one big happy family - or at least, that's how it should be.

Moreover, there's a reason why these processes are public affairs and open to public scrutiny. We want public trials for a reason.

It's the same with the police. Their actions should remain under constant scrutiny, and they should not be granted any special rights above that of an ordinary citizen. Certainly, they're entitled to a fair hearing and a fair trial, as any citizen would, but the public also has a right to know what is being done in their name and on their dime. One need not conflict with the other.

Maybe some people are crazy, but honestly, if we can't trust our own people, then why bother having a democracy at all? Why give people the right to vote?
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
Sometimes politics involves a bit of give and take - and not everything is necessarily done by the book, nor is that even always desirable.
You realised that is exactly the same excuse used to justify the same corruption and violence within the criminal justice system. You could defend the officers involved in this case using the same words. And you'd still be wrong.

Maybe 50-75 years ago, this might have been the case. Nowadays, we have technologies where a video can be taken in one minute and uploaded to the internet the next. It's certainly technologically possible to release video on the same day, so that's not the issue.
It isn't just the technology (though that isn't always as simple as laymen imagine), it is the legal and moral aspects too. All sorts of things and all sorts of innocent people could be inadvertently be caught on those cameras so the idea of simply posting them on the internet unchecked and unmoderated simply isn't viable.

Imagine a family home suffers a home invasion late at night and the police arrive and end up shooting the criminals. Their body cameras could catch all sorts of things - the homeowners naked and vulnerable, their children the same, serious injuries or dead bodies - and you want that instantly and automatically put straight on to the internet?!?

The only thing that's unrealistic is expecting judges, politicians, lawyers, cops, and/or other government officials to act and behave as reasonable human beings.
I expect exactly the same things from them as I expect from you. Doing a particular job doesn't automatically turn someone in to a sub-human monster. It's similar to how having dark skin doesn't either.

Well, if the powers that be in government wanted to bypass the media, they could release the video over the internet for the public to access on their own, without any media spin.
How would that actually work though? Are you going to go to a government site every day to check for any new videos posted or are you going to keep checking the news sites, social media or posts here? Regardless of how the material is released, it will be presented to the general public via the gaze of the media. And, of course, if someone doesn't like what they see they'll just claim it's been manipulated like they already do.

Just the raw footage and let the people decide for themselves. Again, the way to get out in front of these things is to stay one step ahead of the media.
Video isn't the be-all and end-all. The raw footage on it's own rarely tells the entire story and, taken alone (and especially if it is misrepresented), can actually be misleading or at least given an incomplete picture. I mean, if the video alone was ever enough to reach a valid conclusion on an incident, why would any other evidence ever be presented in court?

It seems like the focus has been put on everything else except what actually happened to George Floyd and the individuals responsible.
The sad reality is that the only people who really care about George Floyd personally are his close friends and family. Everyone else getting involved in any of this will be focused on wider concerns and issues, you and I included.

Another part of the reason we have criminal justice systems is to dispense justice on behalf of the people. The reason we're having to deal with riots now is because of a long track record of the criminal justice system repeatedly failing in that task.
That is true (though the problem is often exaggerated). The simple fact remains that the specific video you're complaining about being "withheld" isn't actually part of that problem and your specific proposals are no part of any viable solution. If it was easy to fix, it would have been done already.

"Standard legal practice," huh? Obviously, "standard legal practice" doesn't get the job done, does it? Maybe the problem isn't due to "spin" but more to fossilized, outmoded "standard legal practices."
The court case hasn't concluded yet so how can you know it won't get the job done? What "job" do you imagine the leak of this video alone will actually get done? All it seems to have done is stir up more confusion, argument, unfocused anger and hatred among the people already (deliberately) stirred up in that direction and present another distraction for the people working on the actual court case - the exact opposite of what you say you want.
 
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