For atheists, imagine you have been transported back in time...

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm posting this here because I've forgotten how to post in the atheist DIR.

For those who identify as atheist, imagine you have been transported back in time to convince Genghis Khan that rape is wrong using words only. What do you say to him to convince him from an atheist perspective?

And go!

I notice these answers are for the benefit and belief of the poster. So, it assumed Khan should follow our rules and have our ethics. This happens a lot in religious circles. Assuming others should or shouldn't do X because we say it's wrong (or cause god says so).

What exactly is rape to Khan?

Does he value people's lives? What's his ethics?

I like the post of getting to know him. I'd add to see what he believes and if he agrees with me that rape is bad, cool. If not, I can't do anything but just have an opinion.

 

[Rizdek]

I think you may have answered your own question there ;-)

OF course...an atheist would be unlikely to convince someone that rape, for example, was wrong if the person believed in a god and their god condoned/did not condemn rape.

Even a theist who believed in a god that condemned rape would likely be unable to convince someone that rape was wrong if that person they're trying to convince believed in a god that did NOT condemn rape.

In fact, I think it might be easier to convince an atheist that something is wrong by using reason and empathy than to convince a theist who believes their god thinks it is right.

So....what was the point of the thread again?

 

[McBell]

I'm posting this here because I've forgotten how to post in the atheist DIR.

For those who identify as atheist, imagine you have been transported back in time to convince Genghis Khan that rape is wrong using words only. What do you say to him to convince him from an atheist perspective?

And go!

Out of curiosity, do you believe that rapist are unaware that rape is wrong?
If so, why do rapist go to such great lengths to hide theor rapes?
Why do rapists deny they rape?

Seems to me that it is more likley that Khan already knew that rape is wrong and either did not care or used it to further spread fear of his conquests.

 

[Rizdek]

I'm not sure that's true, actually. This is a complete bald-arsed guess, so just treat is as hypothetical, but...

If he followed some form of shamanism or similar, there may not have been any doctrinal argument against rape, or even much of a dogma at all. But it does open up additional possibilities for how to convince him not to rape. Rather than a rational argument, there could be portents or signs suggesting it's unfavourable to rape.

Meh, I'm broad brushing here, so it's not a great example/explanation, but hopefully you get what I mean.

I was operating under the assumption that as of the point...hypothetically...when I 'showed up' on his doorstep (and survived my first encounter and could communicate in his language using the correct terms and idioms) that he did NOT think rape was wrong.

I'm not sure that's true, actually. This is a complete bald-arsed guess, so just treat is as hypothetical, but...

If he followed some form of shamanism or similar, there may not have been any doctrinal argument against rape, or even much of a dogma at all. But it does open up additional possibilities for how to convince him not to rape. Rather than a rational argument, there could be portents or signs suggesting it's unfavourable to rape.

Meh, I'm broad brushing here, so it's not a great example/explanation, but hopefully you get what I mean.

So you would be talking about delving into his 'religion' and, for want of a better word, perhaps tricking him into seeing that this and that part of his 'doctrine' or 'belief' coupled together in a novel or clever way or interpreted differently points to 'rape being wrong' whereas previously he and his shaman hadn't seen it that way? Almost like how some Christians NOW explore the Bible and find hidden gems that they NOW claim show that indeed, Christ must have really been opposed to slavery even though he never came out and said it?

 

[Rizdek]

Out of curiosity, do you believe that rapist are unaware that rape is wrong?
If so, why do rapist go to such great lengths to hide theor rapes?
Why do rapists deny they rape?

Seems to me that it is more likley that Khan already knew that rape is wrong and either did not care or used it to further spread fear of his conquests.

I think in general rapists (in civilized countries where there is law enforcement and a criminal justice system) hide their rapes and deny because it's against the law and they don't want to get caught and go to prison. I have no knowledge, but do rapists in prisons where there is some sort of acceptance of that kind of brutality 'hide' their actions?

 

[tayla]

For those who identify as atheist, imagine you have been transported back in time to convince Genghis Khan that rape is wrong using words only. What do you say to him to convince him from an atheist perspective?

Asking him if rape causes suffering for the victim, and whether we should inflict suffering upon others. Since humans are animals, he would probably not care. There are people even today in our enlightened societies, even religious people, having the same kind of sensibilities.