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For atheists

waitasec

Veteran Member
He means here those who believe in his name, and especially those who follow him like his disciples in the goal of preaching his word and not to heal anyone they want.
mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe:

huh? where do you get that from...isn't putting the lives of your children on the line a sign of those who believe for the purpose of spreading the gospel?


And you misunderstand what he means by 'believe' . Believe = Faith.
and how does one manifest their faith, is it not by doing what he says to do, like place your; "...hands on sick people, and they will get well.”?

And faith is very wide in meaning and can be infinite if you measure it. To develop Faith, you need to have 1000s characteristics, like always pray to God,always do good, fast, trust god, be ready to sacrifice your life for God anytime not only believe in something to the maximum that it will happen or that you can do it.
And Jesus is talking about very high faith,
willing to put your child's life on the line shows 'very high faith'. if you can't see that...you're blinded by the light...

which cant be found these days due to how evil the world became and due to how evil human thoughts became because of that.
well why did jesus perform miracles...? wasn't it to prove who he was? why then pull the rug from underneath those who truly believe and by their very action of denying their children meds to glorify their god?

this is the truth...
you are saying these parents didn't have enough faith that god wouldn't heal their children, when he himself said he would...
by blaming their lack of faith, when in fact it was nothing but their faith that put them in this position, is actually something YOU need to come to terms with so it would seem as the only way you can reconcile this is by saying, they didn't have the right faith...
can you understand why i can't take this seriously?
 
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waitasec

Veteran Member
Your proof can all be explained with reason and logic. For some reason when scientist try to study these phenomena close up and under scientific scrutiny the evidence disappears. Maybe God is messing with us?

[
And science is the result of the devil (hate to say it but it is true). So of course it would close up while studying that.

wow...just wow.
why exactly would it close up?
because god is messing with us?

the truth will set you free, right?
or is it subjective relative truth will set one free :facepalm:
 

ninerbuff

godless wonder
Furthermore, The devil is using this technology, to get us further from God, and it's working on MANY people, also making them to believe in science, and therefore we'll stop believing in God, which is exactly what the devil wants us to do as a start.
Lol, you should sell your computer then. And your cell phone. And junk your E-reader as well as forget about funding any type of research.:facepalm:
Fundies are funny.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
I have found that some people are too far gone to have any rational debate with.

actually from my experience, being on the other side of the fence, if it wasn't for a few people in my life that presented hard questions for me to answer, i wouldn't have been "saved" from my closed mindedness...
 

Jontehs

Member
Premium Member
The Jewish version of Jesus was told 3000 years earlier in ancient Egypt. The story of the Sun god Horus paralleled Jesus in every respect. God impregnated a virgin with his son, the son of god, He was called a savior. He was crucified to save mankind. It just takes the Jews a while longer to come up with something. Now...as I'm sure you know, the Jews don't even believe it. They're strictly old testament.



A List of the similarities between Horus and Jesus:


  • Horus and the Father are one.
  • Jesus says, "I and My Father are one. He that seeth Me, seeth Him that sent Me."
  • Horus is the Father seen in the Son.
  • Jesus claims to be the Son in whom the Father is revealed.
  • Horus was the light of the world, the light that is represented by the symbolical eye, the sign of salvation.
  • Jesus is made to declare that He is the light of the world.
  • Horus was the way, the truth, the life by name and in person.
  • Jesus is made to assert that he is the way, the truth, and the life.
  • Horus was the plant, the shoot, the natzar.
  • Jesus is made to say: "I am the true vine."
  • Horus says: It is I who traverse the heaven; I go round the Sekhet-Arru (the Elysian Fields); Eternity has been assigned to me without end. Lo! I am heir of endless time and my attribute is eternity.
  • Jesus says: " I am come down from Heaven. For this is the will of the Father that everyone who beholdeth the Son and believeth in Him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." (He, too, claims to be lord of eternity.)
  • Horus says: " I open the Tuat that I may drive away the darkness."
  • Jesus says: " I am come a light unto the world."
  • Horus says: I am equipped with thy words O Ra (the father in heaven) (ch.32) and repeat them to those who are deprived of breath. (ch.38). These were the words of the father in heaven.
  • Jesus says: " The Father which sent me, he hath given me a commandment, what I should say and what I should speak. Whatsoever I speak, therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. The word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me."
Can you show me any primary source for any of this things ? about the Egyptian mythology please.
:)
 
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Jose Fly

Fisker of men
Sometimes I wonder if the fundamentalists realize what they're doing when they present it as science vs. religion, and a zero sum game. If we were to adopt their terms, then by simply demonstrating that science works and produces accurate, useful results, we have then necessarily proven that religion is bunk.

Of course that's a silly way to go about it, but if those are the terms they want, I'm happy to oblige.
 

Amill

Apikoros
Why does it seem like God heals old people with cancer but is unable to fill the bellies of starving children? Why is cancer and blindness miraculously curable by magic yet not hunger? Interesting.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Why does it seem like God heals old people with cancer but is unable to fill the bellies of starving children? Why is cancer and blindness miraculously curable by magic yet not hunger? Interesting.

especially those who have cancer with access to health care?
 

FlyingTeaPot

Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
actually from my experience, being on the other side of the fence, if it wasn't for a few people in my life that presented hard questions for me to answer, i wouldn't have been "saved" from my closed mindedness...
I absolutely agree with that. But some people have completely fallen off the intellectual cliff.
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
A saint appeared to him in his Dream, and told him that he'll get healed, he touched him, he woke up, did the tests and he was already healed, and Doctors didnt do and couldnt do ****, and a few of them became christians after that occured. And same happened to others who were constantly praying faithfully etc. you see now, the definite answer is that the saint of God healed him, but you dont want to believe.


Yes, I don't believe profound stories that involve specious and one dimensional thinking.

You don't know what healed him, for all we know it could of been the devil.

Religion is Science.

I agree.


"All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree."-Albert Einstein


Though this argument can hardly be considered in credit to Christianity, since religions need nothing more than a devoted following to be One, which means no "God" or teacher is needed to make One spiritual or religious.


you dont have to see it to believe it. Science needs evidence and Religion needs faith although I'm trying to make you believe in God in the way of science.


I believe in my "God" in the way of science, but not yours.


And of course, half if not most of the christians arent true christians who never read the bible , dont do anything.


Yes, its called hypocrisy, something fairly common among Christians.

And of course , we are humans and it is natural to sin, so you would always see some people affected by that,and christians masturbating because we have hormones and we normally seek what the body wants not what the sould wants but at least we confess, and God forgives us because he understands us.


And you can use science to prove this?

you dont have to think that if you will be a christian, you will never have to masturbate etc. The most important things is the 10 commandments. Then comes the others.

I think you misunderstood what I meant by masturbatory.

I meant the literal social imposition and preponderance your prophets and churches have brought onto the world.

because you cant deny that someone was severely sick and him getting healed was impossible by the doctors then he got healed and no doctors-medicines ever influenced him, after praying for time and time.

You can stick with that.

I'll stick with a more scientific and calculated observation, which is Self Preservation, the highest law of Life.

I also remember countless stories of parents praying for their sick children, depending on prayer instead of medicine.

Of course the children die in the end, but thats nothing new when you don't do anything about it.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
There should be a book "how to abuse Einstein."

People here are pros at it.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Especially me.

"A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?"-Albert Einstein

I've seen worse.

It's almost as bad as those needless comparisons to Hitler and the Nazis that people continally use. There's a name for that - Reducio ad Hitlerum.

I guess it's proper to name the abuse of Einstein - Erratum Einsteinum.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
Okay, so the point of the OP is that people who want to see something badly enough, will see it regardless whether it's there or not.

What does this have to do with atheists?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
There are many strong signs about God's existance as there are many saints who constantly do miracles for those who pray for them, but that's a rare thing, although it happened a few times in our zone's surroundings last 50s years, like someone who was said he is in an advanced stage of his cancer , goes to the hospital and they tell him there's nothing they can do, it's too late, then he keeps praying all the time in his last days of 'supposed' life , asking for healings, then he dreamt a particular saint (St Charbel) visited him, put his hands in his body (where he had cancer) then disappears. He wakes up, and go to test himself, and cancer was suddenly disappeared. Doctors were really amazed, before he told them the story.(That's the 1 I know which happened like 2-3 years ago for a person not too far away from our home)
Not to mention, that every now and then, some are becoming saints after doing miracles to a few which get announced publically. So, if that's not true, either we (Christians) are lying or we are crazy. It's impossible to be crazy, because these things are happening in front of some of witnesses eyes, that there seem to be a no way escape from their disease, but they get healed after some dream where they see they get healed, do the tests and nothing shows up. And it is also impossible to lie, because what would we earn by making such lies and staying christians?absolutely nothing. We would most probably stop wasting our times and stop being religious and do what we want and enjoy our lives the way We want, not the way God wants us. And these miracles very rarely happen, and to very few people, if they are Very faithful and pray a lot when they get no escape.

Another proof is demon possession. And it's not the one you see in the movies, like 'the exorcist' because most of what you'd see there is untrue. You may say that there is no possession, but that the person is psycologically sick. I agree in LOTS of cases that that is true, maybe 90% or more of the times people say they are. But there are many case in which people are truely possessed. And I started believing in God, and praying, after i watched a demonic possession live on tv of an unbeliever (christian channel), and on a very trusted source, which made me to believe that there is evil, which means there is God. And demons dont possess many, so they dont reveal the truth that they exist, so they keep as many people as possible away from God.

The exorced never seemed psychologically ill, as at first he was totally natural, and in the second the priest came in and started praying, the possessed person started shaking like crazy throwing 100s and 100s of insults, threatening the priest all the time to leave him alone (the demon) and keep him in that person's body (they feel rest in bodies that's why they sometimes like possessing), but of course, the possessed tried to resist and everytime the priest was getting the cross near the eyes, the possessed will close his eyes, because if he looks at the cross, he'll get incredible suffering (the demon inside). and everytime the priest would get the bible in front of him, he'll start going crazy to move it away and keep spitting on it. And he seemed 90% fine before the priest came in. And then after much effort, the priest got the possessed person freed, and he Became TOTALLY normal, not knowing what happened. But as soon as he was told by his companions, he immediately converted to Christianity and became faithful ever since, because evil spirits cant do **** to anyone who loves Jesus&God and by praying and especially following the commandments, because he will be taken care of and there are 2 other cases I watched about demon possession from the same source.

And if you believe in history book and not religious books, you can look up a book of a historian called titus, who talked about jesus christ being a wise man doing miracles and that he had risen from death, many followed him etc., as he was alive when Jesus was there.

Also, LOTS of UFOS are appearing in the sky, Especially in some places in USA. And that's true and it is the work of the devil, so if any never knew why these were appearing should know, he is trying to prove us that Aliens do truely exist for later plans (Wont go on with this or else I'd write 10s more paragraphs)


And also, here's an appearance, not very clear, but clear enough for anyone to see it and to know that it happened. On May 30th, 30 000s and more of Lebanese christians were praying right in that time for 20s hours to Virgin Mary in Lebanon in front of Harissa (a sacred place built for Virgin Mary), and she appeared in the sky from far away because Too many were praying for her there and here's the picture I took and IT isnt photoshoped! (so dont put that excuse)
s249.photobucket.com/albums/gg227/atallah_album/?action=view&current=255093_10150647019780241_658160240_18929836_4254976_n.jpg]255093_10150647019780241_658160240_18929836_4254976_n.jpg

And this shows that it seems like her exactly, and it aint a reflexion because she appeared differently a few times and here's a link showing more photos taken from those who were there with us:

youtube.com/watch?v=2o1s7hfl-xQ
Whether you want to believe me, or dont , that will always remain a true fact, because it happened, and I am pretty sure many here will deny it, because they dont WANT to believe, not that they cant believe, and if God doesnt appear to us, doesnt mean he doesnt exist. He wants US to find him through faith, and if he appears to us, we'll all follow him because he's the creator and because he'd benifit us, so he put us in a life where Evil and Good exist, in which we choose what we want to follow, the evil or the good, he gave us freedom of choice, to choose between Evil (satan) and Good (God), so we follow who we truely want to follow and who we would TRUELY LOVE , not to follow God for our own benefits because he controls everything and he is the all-powerful.

Furthermore, The devil is using this technology, to get us further from God, and it's working on MANY people, also making them to believe in science, and therefore we'll stop believing in God, which is exactly what the devil wants us to do as a start. And Evil spirits dont appear either to those who dont believe in Religion because we'll immediately run away to God and start believing in him, which they dont want. Many may have said that there is no evidence, but their purpose is to not show us any evidence, although if we truely seek either and pray for, they'd surely appear. (I never deny that Science aint true , it is very true, but it has no proof that God didnt create the planet and such, and yes it was created by the energy, but who brought it? Can any human know how big the universe is?

And those who say that the bible isnt real, dont look at the old testament, because it is very faar from wordy. It is Very symbolic. Take a look at the new Testament and I'm pretty sure you'll understand most things. Because Jesus came to talk to us not symbolically but wordly in most cases.

I'm saying all this not to argue or anything, but to show the truth. Follow your logic after this, and start believing in the one who created us , whom we turned our back from although he still loves us

I guess I'm gonna stop here , because if I keep posting every single sign and such, I'd probably not finish this week , but the one after. Hopefully I got some things clearer for you, and sorry if I have some spelling/grammar mistakes as English isnt my 1st language. And flamers , feel free to flame all you want, pretty sure that an arguement will be started now

Well I'm glad you personally believe in all that, It's whatever floats your boat you know? Personally I just take things directly as it is for which I don't assume something is exactly so anymore solely on the basis it simply appears to fit a certain way and/or its personally appealing for whatever reason.

Welcome BTW. :O)
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
I've seen worse.

It's almost as bad as those needless comparisons to Hitler and the Nazis that people continally use. There's a name for that - Reducio ad Hitlerum.

I guess it's proper to name the abuse of Einstein - Erratum Einsteinum.


Well Erratum Einsteinium means "mistakes have Einstein".

I think a better name would be Calumnia Einstein "misrepresentation of Einstein".

And I would also like to pitch in when both sides of an argument try to use Einstein as a way of badgering each other is when it becomes abuse.

Even then, such quotes exist for us to abuse them and learn from the bruises they leave ;)
 
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