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For Christians-Evangelicalism, what's your take on it?

A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
The title says it all. What's your take on Evangelicalism? Below are the main points on Evangelicalism from Wiki


The need for personal conversion (or being "born again");
A high regard for biblical authority;
An emphasis on teachings that proclaim the saving death and resurrection of the Son of God, Jesus Christ;[2]
Actively expressing and sharing the gospel.

Yeah, this isn't me. I don't care too much for Evangelicalism, as long as someone doesn't call me one.... :p

The primary beef that I have with Evangelicalism is the emphasis on biblical authority, which is almost always expressed in terms of biblical infallibility, inerrancy, and some form of inspiration.

I think that these doctrines are such a hindrance to biblical interpretation and intellectual honesty that if one does somehow produce a good reading of the text, it is by accident or happenstance. And then with bad interpretations they say that they live by Scripture and extort others to follow the same bad interpretation.

I don't think that the way Evangelicals think about salvation is biblical or helpful. Salvation in Scripture is an ongoing process that one does not gain or own - it is from God, an act of God, and remains with God while we grow in him or perish.

Also, it is good to share our way of experiencing God through Christ, but only as such and not a requite for other people, especially when they experience God through another religion.
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
Yeah, this isn't me. I don't care too much for Evangelicalism, as long as someone doesn't call me one.... :p

The primary beef that I have with Evangelicalism is the emphasis on biblical authority, which is almost always expressed in terms of biblical infallibility, inerrancy, and some form of inspiration.

I think that these doctrines are such a hindrance to biblical interpretation and intellectual honesty that if one does somehow produce a good reading of the text, it is by accident or happenstance. And then with bad interpretations they say that they live by Scripture and extort others to follow the same bad interpretation.

I don't think that the way Evangelicals think about salvation is biblical or helpful. Salvation in Scripture is an ongoing process that one does not gain or own - it is from God, an act of God, and remains with God while we grow in him or perish.

Also, it is good to share our way of experiencing God through Christ, but only as such and not a requite for other people, especially when they experience God through another religion.

Which means you are a universalist?
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
i dont think anyone can become a follower of Christ without becoming an evangelist because Christ himself was an evangelist.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Which means you are a universalist?

No. I think that God saves those that God chooses through the work of Christ, and this choosing is a righteous judgement according to what we do here on earth. In Evangelical jargon, a judgement according to works but according to the choice of God. That is, God is not bound by anything when God judges, except by the depth of God's love and grace.

I believe that there has to be a final judgment in order for there to be divine justice. Many, many offenders in this world will not see justice in this life, and even those who do see justice cannot receive complete justice, so I do hope that God corrects all of this.
 

lunamoth

Will to love
i dont think anyone can become a follower of Christ without becoming an evangelist because Christ himself was an evangelist.

I agree Pegg and was about to post something similar. But, being an evangelist is different from an evangelical Christian, apparently. I don't agree with the first two wiki points listed in the OP, have a different perspective of the third, and emphasize the last, taking the gospel out into the world, in the form of taking the love of God out into the world.
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
I get that some Christians don't believe in the inerrancy of Scripture. what is the foundation of that belief and what compass do these people use to determine where the errors are?

Proverbs 30:5 "Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him."
 
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lunamoth

Will to love
I get that some Christians don't believe in the inerrancy of Scripture. My question is what compass do these people use to determine where the errors are?
I look at all scripture through the lens of God of Who is love, demonstrated in Jesus Christ.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
All I really have to say is that 9 times out of 10, it's the Evangelical Christians who are the ones calling my religion a non-Christian cult. I think it goes without saying that they don't score any points with me when they do this.
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
All I really have to say is that 9 times out of 10, it's the Evangelical Christians who are the ones calling my religion a non-Christian cult. I think it goes without saying that they don't score any points with me when they do this.

I was taught that your sect's beliefs include heretical doctrines.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I was taught that your sect's beliefs include heretical doctrines.
You know, I really don't know how to respond to this. I guess I'd probably have to say that I was probably taught something similar about your denomination, but at the same time, I was not taught that errors in doctrine disqualify a person from calling himself a Christian.
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
You know, I really don't know how to respond to this. I guess I'd probably have to say that I was probably taught something similar about your denomination, but at the same time, I was not taught that errors in doctrine disqualify a person from calling himself a Christian.

Depends on the doctrine. I've long forgotten the reason why Mormonism is considered heretical by Evangelicalism. I pulled this off of OrthodoxWiki. Is this accurate about your beliefs?

"A major pillar of Mormon belief is their concept of deification, which they refer to as the "Doctrine of Eternal Progression." In opposition to the Trinitarian dogmas of the First and Second Ecumenical Councils, Mormons believe that God the Father, whom they refer to as "Elohim"[4] or "Heavenly Father," was originally a flesh-and-blood human being, who was spiritually "begotten" by another "god" (and his "godess" wife) and then physically born on another planet (not Earth). "Elohim" lived a normal human life, and by embracing his world's version of Mormonism, he "progressed" to become the "god" he is today.[5]
Having attained to "godhood," this "Elohim" and his wife were enabled to create and populate their own universe--namely, ours--with spiritual offspring who, by coming to earth and taking on human flesh, embracing and fully living the Mormon religion, and "enduring to the end," could themselves acquire "godhood," where they in turn could begin this process anew. It should be noted that this LDS doctrine of "pre-existence" of spirits, by which we all are alleged to have existed "spiritually" in heaven prior to our birth on this earth, was specifically condemned by the Fifth Ecumenical Council."

For a casual observer, this may seem similar to the Church's teaching of theosis, but this is most emphatically not so:
First, there is a definite distinction in the Church between God and mankind, between the Creator and His Creation. God is eternal, and existed for eternity prior to (and entirely separate from) His creation (which, unlike its Creator, is not eternal), until the incarnation of the pre-eternal Word of God, the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity, as Our Lord Jesus Christ. This was a unique union between God and His creation, which never existed before. Mormonism, on the other hand, teaches that only matter and intelligence are truly eternal (not God), and that all of their "gods" essentially "evolved" in the same fashion, from physical matter.Second, the Orthodox Church clearly teaches that the Most Holy Trinity has always existed precisely as one God: "the Trinity, One in Essence, and Undivided." Mormonism, on the other hand, teaches that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one in "purpose" only, and most emphatically not one in essence or hypostasis (as the Orthodox Church teaches). They are three "gods," say the Mormons, and not "one" in anything except a common purpose and mindset. Furthermore, say they, there are potentially billions of "gods" beyond the three they acknowledge as belonging to this world. All of this is diametrically opposed to Orthodox Christian teaching.Third, Theosis is a unification between God and mankind, not the creation of an entirely separate deity (or dieties).Mormonism's designation by Orthodoxy as being "heretical"--instead of "heterodox," as is the case with the Roman Catholic and most major Protestant faiths--stems primarily from their spurious doctrines on the Holy Trinity and the nature of God, together with various other specious beliefs.
Mormons have a very difficult time understanding why Orthodox and other Christians deny that they are Christian. The simplest answer to this question is that the Mormon god is simply not God--at least not the God worshipped by Orthodox Christians (and other Trinitarians). This does not mean that the Mormons are necessarily immoral or wicked people, simply that they worship a god completely dissimilar from the Christian Trinity. "
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Junglej25 - Mormonism is a bit more difficult to isolate (understand).
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
All I really have to say is that 9 times out of 10, it's the Evangelical Christians who are the ones calling my religion a non-Christian cult. I think it goes without saying that they don't score any points with me when they do this.

I get that too. But I don't even get the benefit of being a cult. I'm just called an atheist. Which I don't see as an insult anyway.
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
I get that too. But I don't even get the benefit of being a cult. I'm just called an atheist. Which I don't see as an insult anyway.

You've got to understand that even the Devil calls himself a Christian. The Devil even calls himself a "follower of Jesus". There's a catch however, his version of Jesus is much different than who we believe the actual person was. Of course he CLAIMS he's teaching the "true" message of Christ which usually translates to teaching that Jesus was a good man but he wasn't God, wasn't sinless, didn't atone for sin, and/or didn't demand repentance.

2 Corinthians 11: "13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve."

Usually after being confronted with Corinthians the Devil would say that this is Paul hijacking the "true" Jesus' message. You might think he has a point until you pull out Matthew which shows Jesus taught the same thing.

Matthew 10: 24“A student is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master.</SPAN> 25It is enough for the student to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebub,c how much more the members of his household!

You might ask why we make such a big deal about silly doctrines so long as one is a "good person"? Because we believe it's through the blood of Jesus that we find forgiveness. Being "good" isn't good enough. Without the blood of Jesus one would have to be perfect to not need forgiveness.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
My take on Evangelicalism (which is what I grew up in and actually ordained in) is in one word, fundamentalism. It is a movement that believes in the infallibility of the Bible and that they are the true Christians. I have also seen with them that they are not a religion or part of a religion. They are just Christians and religion is evil (I can't really expand on that as I never understood it).

I also see them supporting questioning as long it is right questioning. I also see many of them isolating and too focused on the end times. I personally don't care for it, but as long as they leave me alone and my country alone, whatever.
 

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
I was taught that your sect's beliefs include heretical doctrines.
I was taught evangelicals were made up of not so knowledgeable people who spread lies about Catholics and talk as if they understand Catholic theology, when they actually know nothing since they are to lazy to go to an actual source such as a catholic writing, or a catholic encyclopedia, but learn everything from Jack Chick and the like. They are the equivalent to people stupid enough to try and learn African American history from Klansmen. Its this one thing that bugs me the most about evangelicals.

Not to mention the complete ignorance of history.

In short, I have no good opinion of evangelicalism. I think evangelicals teach heretical doctrines, and poor history alongside a poor knowledge of Catholic theology. There is a need of humility and a learning of how to actually study credible sources before shooting the mouth.
 

-Peacemaker-

.45 Cal
I was taught evangelicals were made up of not so knowledgeable people who spread lies about Catholics and talk as if they understand Catholic theology, when they actually know nothing since they are to lazy to go to an actual source such as a catholic writing, or a catholic encyclopedia, but learn everything from Jack Chick and the like. They are the equivalent to people stupid enough to try and learn African American history from Klansmen. Its this one thing that bugs me the most about evangelicals.

Not to mention the complete ignorance of history.

In short, I have no good opinion of evangelicalism. I think evangelicals teach heretical doctrines, and poor history alongside a poor knowledge of Catholic theology. There is a need of humility and a learning of how to actually study credible sources before shooting the mouth.

Care to tell us which doctrines you believe are heretical? FWIW I apologize if I've offended you with some of my past comments about Catholicism. I had some bad experiences with it as a kid and have held onto a little bitterness towards tha belief system as a result.
 
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Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
As in what is heretical? Many things. Its not as easy to mention since evangelicals all differ from church to church on what they belief. A heresy, OSAS.

and just to define a heresy... its anything that the catholic church does not agree with :D
 
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